View Poll Results: Had Palm disclosed potential 700p Bluetooth,Lag,MP3 Skip,SMS freeze & Support issues:

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  • I would've passed and stayed with what I had, or at least waited until a firmware fix was released.

    74 71.84%
  • I would've bought the 700p anyway.

    29 28.16%
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  1.    #1  
    A topic of great interest to me has arisen out of the fires of the great 700p/Firmware Debate. Specifically, the whole concept of misrepresentation of product capabilities or non-disclosure of flaws.

    One thing to keep in mind in the 700p's case is that Palm chose hardware that was going to be compatible with Windows Mobile for the 700w. I will give Palm the benefit of the doubt that they did not know there would be major problems when they chose the design but it is fairly certain that they realized it at some point during the development process. At that time Palm was probably committed to the hardware design and it was too late to change it. By release time they had a decision whether to disclose problems they knew existed or not.

    I am curious to see what impact disclosure would've had on 700p sales had it been made.

    I used the word, "potential", in the poll wording for those who claim they have no problems in any of the four categories listed.
    Last edited by Bob-C; 04/04/2007 at 11:36 PM.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  2. #2  
    I find the 700p to be far better than the 650. Ben
  3. noodle's Avatar
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    #3  
    I would have got a blackberry...
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    noodlelest wet noodler
  4. #4  
    I did buy the 700p after a full 6 months of "disclosure" on this forum. . . .
  5. #5  
    I was a Treo 650 user for about a year and a half with Cingular before I switched to the 700p last summer. The 700p addressed (in theory) the only three flaws I had with the 650: lack of RAM, low-speed data (I still had to carry a separate EVDO card for my Mac), and the coverage gap - in my part of the Boston area, Cingular generally has an inferior footprint. But then, after actually getting the 700p, here's what I found it lacked in comparison to the 650:

    - The 700p has a brain-damaged multiple call interface. On the 650, I can hang up a second call with the hang up button. Not so on the 700p.

    - On the 650, if a call came in as I was dialing another one, it was no big deal. On the 700p, that usually crashes the phone.

    - The 700p has vastly worse Bluetooth performance. Headsets were stable on the 650 if they worked at all for the most part. The 700p is really hit-or-miss, and I have never had one that was 100% reliable. They drop connections at semi-random times. The 650 was a little flaky when I got it, but several firmware updates took care of it by the time I was done. We have yet to see one on the 700p.

    - Syncing to my Mac with Bluetooth? No problem on the 650, even though it was slow. Crashes the 700p virtually every time.

    - I know Chatter is no longer being developed, but on the 650 it could make the lights blink to indicate a new message. The 700p can't do that, for some bizarre reason. All you can do is change the color of the solid indicator.

    - This last one is more a function of how the EVDO radio works, but battery life is notably worse - and when the phone decides it needs (for weak signal reasons) to toggle between 1X and EV mode you can practically see the meter drop - even when you're not on a call!

    Right now if I could see a useful replacement for the 700p I'd take it. I might even take a look at the iPhone when it comes, even though I'd have to go back to having a separate data card. My list of features I need is simple. Good, intuitive phone performance, a solid IMAP client, and basic web capability. Reliable support for Bluetooth headsets. I also want high-speed data support and the ability to use it as a modem so as to save devices.

    With the 700p that seems like it was just too much to ask for.
  6.    #6  
    Are you serious about having waited 6 months to buy the 700p? You were the leader of 700p Silly season!
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    Are you serious about having waited 6 months to buy the 700p? You were the leader of 700p Silly season!
    Well, yes and no. . . . I did buy a 700P that June by openning a SERO account on a new line of service. I was going to take the 700P and the 650 was going to go to my daughter. . . . who had a Zire planner but also wanted a cell phone for her birthday. . . and was coveting my 650.

    At the last minute, I decided to give her the 700P as a reward for many accomplishments that spring.

    So, I did not buy my 700P until this past December when my contract was up and I got a deal thru retentions . . . .
  8. ggward's Avatar
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    #8  
    Bob-C, Thanks for posting this. Are you gather info for further action or are you planning on forwarding the info to Plam so they can address it? Thanks,
    Cigar,
    VZW 755p
    VAJA Orange Case, Custom takephone skin (Thanks NachoB), Chatter, PalmRevolt, treolauncher, and a bunch of other stuff
    ......
  9. eodell's Avatar
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    #9  
    Bob-C,

    Still no response from Colligan?
  10.    #10  
    I just want comment on what a stand up guy and great father you are Perry. Not to mention how good you are at handling livestock too!

    Was just wondering how old your daughter was before you started buying her Palm devices. I'm taking it you get 'em started early.

    In response to the other question, I don't currently have any specific plans to use the data at the moment. The idea came to me while reading discussion about what percentage of people are happy with their 700p. It occurred to me how subjective that term is in context.

    For example, I love my 700p for the EVDO improvement that was made despite what impression I might give. At the sametime, I loved my 650 for reliability. Had I known what I know today, I would've waited until those problems were corrected befor buying a 700p and opted for the 650's reliabilty over the groundbreaking EVDO speed. I had stuck with my 600 for similar reasons over the 650 when the memory problems were disclosed by Palm at almost the beginning.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  11. #11  
    I would definitely have hung on to the 650 until a firmware update. The 700p is a horrid mp3 player compared to the 650.

    Quote Originally Posted by original jht View Post
    - The 700p has a brain-damaged multiple call interface. On the 650, I can hang up a second call with the hang up button. Not so on the 700p.
    My 650 on Sprint had the same "brain-damaged" multiple call interface. I think the "bug" affects only Sprint (or maybe CDMA?) treos. But nevertheless, Palm/Sprint should have fixed it with the 700p.
  12. #12  
    Thanks Bob, the girls got their techno-geek-noid genes from me. . . . mom's contribution to that side of the gene pool is, well, . . . . . let me put it this way . . . . about as good as my singing. (She's a music teacher.)

    Zires at 12.
    Cell phones at 14.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    I am curious to see what impact disclosure would've had on 700p sales had it been made.
    My 650 had an accident, and I was going crazy with a paper calendar and a regular cell phone. I couldn't wait for the 700p and never regretted the purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    Zires at 12. Cell phones at 14.
    Although I haven't topped that yet, Perry, I think I'm on my way. My kids (4 & 7) are already asking for a Treo like Daddy's.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaharr View Post
    Although I haven't topped that yet, Perry, I think I'm on my way. My kids (4 & 7) are already asking for a Treo like Daddy's.
    Like ducks to water. . . . .
  15. #15  
    I experience the lag and skipping issues but in day-to-day operation, they impact me minimally. Had Palm disclosed these issues I would have mistakenly passed on the 700p thinking the issues were worse then they were (for my usage).
  16. #16  
    Just to chime in, the argument that they "choose hardware to run both wm5 and palm" is not valid. The hardware differences are nill. If you go to my site and check the pics and parts to compare the 650 to the 700 you'll find they are almost exactly the same. They barely changed anything, just added more memory. The problem arose from A) EVDO, and B) I'm guessing they are trying to DRM the rom update if you will. The 650 turned into a custom rom nightmare from their standpoint and they might be trying to prevent that.
  17. #17  
    My reasoning is a bit weird here.

    I got my 700p as a test device (originally I was going to write a phone screen replacement but did not really get around to it, but I do have some ideas) and because my family offered me the ability to get a line on a family plan (since I was going off to college) that my mom would setup. I had some money that my grandparents had given me as bonds, so I could afford it. It wasn't really going to replace my TX, but in the end it seemed logical that it should (for the most part, my TX is still well loved, as is the T3).

    Since my family (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, them all!) has (have) Verizon this seemed like a good idea. I told my parents that I probably wouldn't accept the offer if I could not get a Treo. Mostly this is because I hate about 75% of what Verizon does business wise (high prices, limits to what you can and cannot do with certain things, crippled phones).

    Am I glad I got my Treo? You bet! Does it have bugs? Too many of them. It makes my job (writing stable software) a PITA since I have to deal with too many of Palm's incompetent decisions (oooo! Let's change how this works from OS 5.4.8 to 5.4.9 so developers can have a hidden bug and write more hacks, but we'll leave big bugs in the changes!).

    My plan is to save up my money and when Palm releases a stable GSM Treo (PalmOS powered) that exceeds the features in my 700p (and has 3G and WiFi, or at least the ability for WiFi, and I have the feeling that these are coming) and when the two year agreement for my line is up I will more than likely switch to T-Mobile unless my family can convince me otherwise (but I will still be getting the Treo as a development device).

    If the next few Treos are just as buggy then I will most likely make the switch to Nokia and their S60 powered devices (I have been eyeing the E70 for a long time). At least Nokia offers updates (for the most part) and their devices are pretty feature rich. I won't touch WM (as a primary device, I might get a development device though) with a 20 foot pole (unless you paid me ).
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Perry Holden View Post
    At the last minute, I decided to give her the 700P as a reward for many accomplishments that spring.
    If you gave her the 700p, don't you mean punishment?

    (Sorry - couldn't resist)
  19. #19  
    I have a 650 and a 700p - the issues for the most part are none that I have come across. The Bluetooth operation on both phones has been good for me. I am using an X3 by Blueant and it works very well with both devices. I have sync'd to my wife's Mac via Bluetooth on my 700p with no crash - done yesterday and about an hour ago. As for the LED, take a look at Butler.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by original jht View Post
    I was a Treo 650 user for about a year and a half with Cingular before I switched to the 700p last summer. The 700p addressed (in theory) the only three flaws I had with the 650: lack of RAM, low-speed data (I still had to carry a separate EVDO card for my Mac), and the coverage gap - in my part of the Boston area, Cingular generally has an inferior footprint. But then, after actually getting the 700p, here's what I found it lacked in comparison to the 650:

    - The 700p has a brain-damaged multiple call interface. On the 650, I can hang up a second call with the hang up button. Not so on the 700p.

    - On the 650, if a call came in as I was dialing another one, it was no big deal. On the 700p, that usually crashes the phone.

    - The 700p has vastly worse Bluetooth performance. Headsets were stable on the 650 if they worked at all for the most part. The 700p is really hit-or-miss, and I have never had one that was 100% reliable. They drop connections at semi-random times. The 650 was a little flaky when I got it, but several firmware updates took care of it by the time I was done. We have yet to see one on the 700p.

    - Syncing to my Mac with Bluetooth? No problem on the 650, even though it was slow. Crashes the 700p virtually every time.

    - I know Chatter is no longer being developed, but on the 650 it could make the lights blink to indicate a new message. The 700p can't do that, for some bizarre reason. All you can do is change the color of the solid indicator.

    - This last one is more a function of how the EVDO radio works, but battery life is notably worse - and when the phone decides it needs (for weak signal reasons) to toggle between 1X and EV mode you can practically see the meter drop - even when you're not on a call!

    Right now if I could see a useful replacement for the 700p I'd take it. I might even take a look at the iPhone when it comes, even though I'd have to go back to having a separate data card. My list of features I need is simple. Good, intuitive phone performance, a solid IMAP client, and basic web capability. Reliable support for Bluetooth headsets. I also want high-speed data support and the ability to use it as a modem so as to save devices.

    With the 700p that seems like it was just too much to ask for.
  20.    #20  
    Shadowmite,

    I remember compating at the 700p's specs to the 650's when it came out and was given the impression that, although they have the same clock speed, the 700p has a different model of processor than that of the 650.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
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