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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Then all you have to do it prove that it's really a failure rate, and not due to third party apps.
    No David, we don't have to PROVE anything.

    See, Palm has already admitted such in multiple emails to multiple people.

    They have ADMITTED to the problems existing. Some are by design and
    others are by omission/error.

    Their failure is to correct these known errors in a timely fashion.

    I'll let the lawyers follow on w/ the legalese.

    Jim
  2. #62  
    I can see these guys screaming at Sinclair, "There are NO problems with the 700p. There are no SMS lockups on the Verizon version because I don't get them on my Sprint Treo. So SHUTUP stupid! The only reason your car's hands free Bluetooth system doesn't work is because it's from Ford. If it were from a Japanese auto company it would work fine. I know that because my Bluetooth ear piece is made by a Japanese company and it works great. I don't care if you are a Senior Product Manager, you have no basis to say your product has problems. You are just a whiner who gets off in spending 300 days already this year in writing a firmware update that we don't need. Although I would gladly load if it were released because it will improve all the non-problems that don't exist. I don't care what Hawkins is telling you either. The dope is loading too many third party apps. Didn't you read his interview in which he uses a non-supported 4GB card? It's obvious that is causing the problem. Tell Hawkins and Palm's support team drones to just do a hard reset and it'll fix everything. So SHUT UP!!!!!!! Now I'm so disgusted with this site that I'm going back to Paradise City where the grass is green & the girls are pretty. And just like I said in the last couple of rants, I'm NEVER coming back to this. Again. I mean it this time."

    BTW - I'm not saying I agree that a lawsuit is the best answer. I'm only saying that it would not be frivolous. At least in the wild world of lawsuiting it probably has better good faith basis than a lot of other suits.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  3. ink883's Avatar
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    #63  
    We would probably get some gas out of writing several letters to the BBB.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  4. #64  
    Has anyone considered the fact that by the time a class action suit even gets to trial the 1155p will be out? Not to mention the appeal process. The legal route is a waste of time for a device that cost under a grand and has caused no one any tortious injuries that would be worth litigating? I am an attorney and here is my advice: quit complaining and find a new mobile device vendor. The writers of some of the first posts were right - caveat emptor.
  5. #65  
    BBB is simply an overglorified but well marketed rating service. so no, it would not get alot of gas.

    a class action lawsuit, however, would at the very least, get palm's attention and expose it to a greater audience beyond us----and provide it with an embarassing, costly black eye if it were successful.

    by the way palm, if you jokesters are reading this, i successfully convinced three co-workers this month who were so impressed by my shiny 700p to not buy your new treos---yeah, the ones that just came out that you came out with firmware updates already. take that, beotches.

    bob
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by dapunked View Post
    Has anyone considered the fact that by the time a class action suit even gets to trial the 1155p will be out? Not to mention the appeal process. The legal route is a waste of time for a device that cost under a grand and has caused no one any tortious injuries that would be worth litigating? I am an attorney and here is my advice: quit complaining and find a new mobile device vendor. The writers of some of the first posts were right - caveat emptor.
    i dont think anyone here cares about time, but rather, to send a very pointed message that palm failed as a company to support its products and its loyal (well, not anymore---at least me) user base. i personally dont care if its this year or in 5 years. in fact, if it takes 5 years, and the attorney/firm handling the CALS is willing, then thats 5 years of tying up palm's legal resources. too bad for them when the cost of supporting and fixing the problem wouldve probalby been much less---and much wiser from a customer goodwill, service and support standpoint.

    the only advice i agree with is finding another device vendor. i am going with blackberry or some other mfg next time.

    bob
  7. #67  
    [rant]

    I don't recall where I read this (might be the response letter), but I know this was stated somewhere.

    We were supposed to get our patch Q1. Right? Well, from what I remember reading- Sprint/Verizon still have to test the patch. We may not be waiting on Palm anymore. We might be waiting on Sprint and Verizon to certify the patch.

    I know waiting sucks. But, we have a patch coming. I would rather they make sure this patch doesn't brick my phone, then get the patch right now.

    Granted, I'm not experiencing all the issues everyone else here is facing. I DO have bluetooth issues I hope are resolved, and SMS lag happens frequently. App switching sucks too. I'm willing to wait patiently for the carriers to test this patch and make sure it corrects all the issues and doesn't create new ones.

    Palm always comes through with the patches eventually. If they're taking too long to patch it, for you - then jump ship. Go with something else. The Pros still outweigh the Cons for me. You could always sell it on ebay.

    [/rant]
    ----

    Sprint Treo 700p
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by blackboxsocial View Post
    [rant]

    I don't recall where I read this (might be the response letter), but I know this was stated somewhere.

    We were supposed to get our patch Q1. Right? Well, from what I remember reading- Sprint/Verizon still have to test the patch. We may not be waiting on Palm anymore. We might be waiting on Sprint and Verizon to certify the patch.

    I know waiting sucks. But, we have a patch coming. I would rather they make sure this patch doesn't brick my phone, then get the patch right now.

    Granted, I'm not experiencing all the issues everyone else here is facing. I DO have bluetooth issues I hope are resolved, and SMS lag happens frequently. App switching sucks too. I'm willing to wait patiently for the carriers to test this patch and make sure it corrects all the issues and doesn't create new ones.

    Palm always comes through with the patches eventually. If they're taking too long to patch it, for you - then jump ship. Go with something else. The Pros still outweigh the Cons for me. You could always sell it on ebay.

    [/rant]
    Palm's saying that they're waiting on Sprint/Verizon to test is just a canned answer. It means absolutely nothing, otherwise HTC wouldn't have been able to push out 3 new updates for the 6700 through Sprint already in a much shorter amount of time than it's taking Palm. The same goes for the Q, Samsungs, Sanyos, and LG phones, many of which on sprint actually have to get the update over the air on Sprint.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883 View Post
    We would probably get some gas out of writing several letters to the BBB.
    We'd probably get more gas out of a well-placed contact at the WSJ.

    Anyone got one?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883 View Post
    Remember, Palm acknowledged the problems that many are suffering and promised us a patch by now. Perhaps some people are OK with a business making material misrepresentations to their customers, but many of us are not.

    I have been using palm software for many years, I know how to do a fresh install and that has nothing to do with the lag, sms or BT issues.

    Even your "perfect" 700p skips when playing mp3, does that make you happy?!?! Don't you feel that the 700 should be just as good at playing mp3 files as a 650 or 600?
    Absolutely Ptunes skips and I don't like it a bit. It would be nice if it didn't. I also am not saying people are making up their problems. I have posted this sentiment before, but I'll say it again. Let's try approaching this with logic. Some people have multiple problems, some people have very few. There are only several possible explanations for this difference.
    1. Very different requirements, for example using multiple BT devices at once.
    2. Use of outdated or incompatible third party apps
    3. Using the device in areas of poor signal strength (in the ten months I've had my device, the only times I've had problems is in an area of poor coverage)
    4. Some differences between devices in terms of hardware.
    5. Some combination of the above
    I'm not aware of any other possibilities, but I'm sure there could be some. If there are really failures of devices, or the development of these problems directly out of the box with no third party apps, in areas of good signal strength, then that suggests to me problem number 4. I've not seen anyone try and figure out if there is a difference between devices that were manufactured at different times, or from different locations, or whether there might have been changes in the hardware.

    My point is that there IS an explanation for the differences. We just might never find out why, but a class action lawsuit will not help and would not be taken seriously. Listen to the lawyers.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by dapunked View Post
    Has anyone considered the fact that by the time a class action suit even gets to trial the 1155p will be out? Not to mention the appeal process. The legal route is a waste of time for a device that cost under a grand and has caused no one any tortious injuries that would be worth litigating? I am an attorney and here is my advice: quit complaining and find a new mobile device vendor. The writers of some of the first posts were right - caveat emptor.
    dapunked, you're not talking like a lawyer--at least not a good one, anyway. Obviously a lawsuit will not go through a trial and the appeals process in time to make anyone here happy. But the object of a lawsuit, as I'm sure you know, is not to go to trial--that's NEVER the intent. It is to get the defendant's attention and provoke a settlement. We want Palm's attention. We want Palm to know were not happy with the representations they made in the sale of their product. Some people get so upset at the mere thought of the word lawsuit, yet they fail to see what this country would be like without them (it would be a place where no one is honest in business, and products kill and mame people by the thousands.) Caveat emptor is a nice thing in a perfect world--a world where the playing field is level. Caveat emptor assumes that with due diligence a reasonable person may make a reasonable decision about the purchase of a product. In this case, Palm said the product would do things that is does not do, or, at the very least, does not do well or does with an inordinate number of bugs. As others have pointed out here, Palm has ADMITTED this in their correspondences. Caveat emptor doesn't work when people actively misrepresent. And if one thinks Palm didn't know about these bugs before they sold us our 700p's then that person needs a heavy dose of reality. If a lawsuit is what it will take to get Palm's attention and to get them to fix their product, then I'm in support of it.

    In the end it is all a game. Companies don't sell products to make people happy, they sell them to make money. The idea is to expend the fewest resources while at the same time take in the most profit for that expense. Sometimes you have to take a calculated gamble, which Palm did here. They gambled that they could get away with releasing the 700p as-is and still make enough money on it to be worth it. If we allow them to get away with it then they win the game. I'm in support of NOT allowing them to get away with it. I've been a loyal customer for 10 years...and this is how they think they can treat me???
  12. #72  
    Great points there danspalmone.

    If you take exhibits A-C that I listed, it clearly shows that Palm misrepresented capabilites of their last three Treos. Capabilities that either were broke at release or features promised that were never made good on.

    Does anyone disagree with the following definition:

    Fraud -The sale of a product to a consumer based upon the seller's misrepresentation of that product's features .

    Does anyone disagree that it describes Palm's business practices?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    1)
    Exhibit A) Treo 600 box: promises Bluetooth & WIFI.

    Exhibit B) Quote from Ed Colligan in which he promises he will promises WIFI capability for Treo 650 at launch.

    Exhibit C) 700p
    1)I'd start with a brand new untouched 700p & start playing PocketTunes.Then I'd switch between apps & let people hear it skip.Then I'd demonstrate no such problem on the 650 & 600 as well as show them the Palm knowledge base article that documents the problem.I would point out that the article was written a day before the 700p's release & ask if Palm decided to put that on the box.
    2)I would launch Versamail on the 700p instantly creating a lag without even syncing it to an account.Then I would show the lag difference against the 650 & 600.Then I would say how it has got to make you wonder just how bad it must get once you've actually loaded something on it.
    3)Similar demonstrations with SMS lockup (easy too) & Bluetooth.
    Don't really think this is very useful to continue, but A and B are different than C. A and B are misrepresentations; for C, you can't say the device won't play music; it just doesn't play it in the quality you like (me neither). BT works. Partially. The 700P works. If it doesn't work the way you like, that is caveat emptor material, not misrepresentation.
  14. #74  
    You, me & Palm all agree that when changing applications Pocket-Tunes skips. Palm knew it before release. It never happened with previous models so there was a reasonable expectation by consumers that the upgraded model should have at least the same quality.

    Don't you think that proper representation would be for Palm, since they knew it at release, to at least have an '*' next to the MP3 feature with a footnote indicating that skipping can occur when using the MP3 player?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    Don't you think that proper representation would be for Palm, since they knew it at release, to at least have an '*' next to the MP3 feature with a footnote indicating that skipping can occur when using the MP3 player?
    They would also have to put an '*' by the bluetooth feature as well to indicate that if used, your phone may crash on incoming calls, with no record of the call ever happening.... This pisses me off to no end. It's a phone for crying out loud! It has bluetooth, but you had better not use it if you want the phone to work... I have been dealing with this crap since last June. This is my first Treo phone, and it will also be my last. How could they possibly justify taking this long for a firmware update?! Was this phone ever tested? At all? Their cavalier attitude towards it's customers is disgusting...
  16. #76  
    Bob-C I know you said you were going to send your contact an email, Im assuming you have by now.

    Mind if I ask what it said and if youve gotten any response? Also, if you havent gotten a response have you considered calling him?

    Mods, do you guys have any pull or contacts that can tell us wtf is really up?

    I dont buy that the patch is being "tested by the carriers" for one minute. As Ive said before, how fast did they put out some of the other patches for other units? Those werent "tested" by the carriers for months on end!

    I know that I read a poster say that they actually knew a guy who was an engineer with Sprint and they were testing the patch. Im not calling that post liar per say but cmon already!

    Back to Bob-C how can your contact NOT say something? It pisses me off on your behalf that he has the hangemdowns to NOT tell you its delayed or give you a status report after he said what he said.

    sigh.
    ONE can be spelled as NEO.
    There is no spoon.
  17. #77  
    Hey guys, Palm reads these boards and Palm employees usually post here making you guys look like idiots, so don't get discourage by those users telling you that they never had a problem. Let's get the ball rolling...

    Al
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo View Post
    Hey guys, Palm reads these boards and Palm employees usually post here making you guys look like idiots, so don't get discourage by those users telling you that they never had a problem. Let's get the ball rolling...

    Al
    I'm happy to help get it rolling. I am a lawyer (not practicing, but a lawyer nonetheless.) I have no experience in class actions, but generally understand some things about them and have some friends who would help me (although they too have no experience with class actions, but at least they still practice.) I also have 1-year-old son, a full-time job and am massively sleep-deprived, so my time is limited. But all that said, I'll help draft a complaint with others input from this forum. Any other lawyers or knowledgeable people on here on-board to help me?

    I'm SICK AND TIRED of Palm treating its loyal customers like crap. I want some answers and I want some results. And to be clear, to stop the nonesense before it starts, I'm obviously not looking for any compensation on this. I'll do it because I believe firmly in the rights of the average person to NOT get screwed by large corporations such as Palm. They need to be held accountable.

    Who's with me and who can help?
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by danspalmone View Post
    I'm happy to help get it rolling. I am a lawyer (not practicing, but a lawyer nonetheless.) I have no experience in class actions, but generally understand some things about them and have some friends who would help me (although they too have no experience with class actions, but at least they still practice.) I also have 1-year-old son, a full-time job and am massively sleep-deprived, so my time is limited. But all that said, I'll help draft a complaint with others input from this forum. Any other lawyers or knowledgeable people on here on-board to help me?

    I'm SICK AND TIRED of Palm treating its loyal customers like crap. I want some answers and I want some results. And to be clear, to stop the nonesense before it starts, I'm obviously not looking for any compensation on this. I'll do it because I believe firmly in the rights of the average person to NOT get screwed by large corporations such as Palm. They need to be held accountable.

    Who's with me and who can help?
    I'm with you. How do we get started?
  20. #80  
    I am all for this suit, but, I was under the impression the ROM update was in April, not March like some people say. Shouldn't this wait until then? Palm would not be the first (nor last) software company to advertise a release day and have to move it either.
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