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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Bit more personal this way, isn't it? Corporations are not people. Businesses do things people by themselves would never do.

    Surur
    Its what causes people by themselves to do what they never would unless in the company of others that is a driving force that makes the world go around.
    I don't see if it matters if they are alone or amongst a corporation or Business, money is always the common denominator and driving force.
    at&t iPhone3G
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Bit more personal this way, isn't it? Corporations are not people. Businesses do things people by themselves would never do.

    Surur
    Actually I like your edit of what I wrote.

    And yeah Ed Colligan surrounded by the resources of capital and labor will do things that Ed Colligan by himself wouldn't.

    Me too.

    I don't think the additional resources will change his basic character. I think these resources just give him power tools where before he had a little itty bitty screwdriver and a rubber mallet.

    Fortunately for us, Mr. Market is completely agnostic on this debate. Mr. Colligan's strategies will be right or wrong. Millions of people voting with their wallets will make it so.

    About 10 years ago I went to a venture capital conference. Nolan Bushnell was the keynote speaker. Atari, Chuck E. Cheese. Little businesses he started. He knows a thing or two.

    Mr. Bushnell talked about market research and running businesses 'n stuff.

    He was suitably dismissive of market research and answers to survey questionnaires. "The only answer that matters is the one you get when you ask for a customer's Visa card." That's one thing that he (approximately) said.

    Mr. Colligan is going to live or die by that Ultimate Truth, no matter what we say here on TC.
    Last edited by Tastypeppers; 04/03/2007 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Mangled syntax
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan View Post
    I find it interesting how many people get personally offended when Palm fails to produce a product that meets their expectations. If you read through the post on a number of these threads, it seems like some people think that Palm is in business to provide US what we want.

    In fact, Palm\'s ultimate goal and reason for being is simply to provide the maximum rate of return on the investor\'s/stockholders money. If putting out incremental products that don\'t satisfy the folks on this board is the best way to do that, then that is what they should do. If putting out cutting-edge products that gets us Treo-geeks wild and happy is what does that, then THAT is what they should do. Palm is not here to please us, they are hear to make money, thats all.

    The Japaneese are the most brutally honest about this. I saw an interview once with an executive of a whaling company. He was being asked why the company would hunt whales to the point of extinction when, if they reduced their take, they could last in business indefinatly. The exec said \"You don\'t understand the purpose of our company. We are not in the business of whaling, we are in the business of making money for our investors. If its is better to maximize whaling now, that is what we will do and, when the time comes, we will switch to something else.\" In other words, its better to get a 20% rate of return on whaling for 20 years then switch to something else that can get you a 20% ROR when whales run out, rather than get a 10% ROR forever.

    Now you might be able to make a case that the 700p and 755p don\'t maximize that rate of return for Palm for a number of reasons including, perhaps, that failing to make cutting edge jumps instead of incrimental advances will hurt Palm, if not right now, then in the long-run. That may be true, but if so, then it is a business decision error and not the violation of some inherent right we have to have the best product theoretically possible.

    There just seems to be something about Palm that gets people worked up more than other companies and products i follow. Its like we grew up with them, they are are family and they owe us something and when they dont meet our expectations we feel betrayed.

    How about how Sony treated the market for those that want a PDA only device in the US? They decided it was best for them to abandon it all together. That may have been a wise choice -- that market is shrinking -- but those who DO want a PDA only device were cut loose totally. I didnt see near the hand-wringing and teeth-gnashing over that that you can find on this board when Palm updates a device slowly. Did Sony \"owe\" it to them to stay in the market and keep producing devices? I dont remember anybody saying that, but that is what the feeling with Palm seems to be.

    Corporations are not evil, they are not good. They are not your friend or your enemy. They do what the decision makers feel is best for the company and investors, although the short and long term analysis can get complicated and mistakes are common. Indeed, where the system gets really screwed up is when decision makers FAIL to look at what is best for the company and get caught up is what is best for them personally -- perks, stock options, parachutes, etc. That may have been what was driving the PalmSource mess, hard to figure out any other explanatin for that one.

    Of course, meeting consumer demand and making the customer happy is vital. But there are many customers and many demands. Palm has to choose what is best for Palm, not what may be best for \"us.\"

    So what do we do? well vote with your credit card. If you like their products, buy them. If you dont, buy something else. If enough people go elsewhere, Palm will either change or fold. Ultimatly that is how customers voices are heard in the boardroom.

    Letter writing campaings, emails, message board rants, even bad press reviews can make an impact, but only if it is felt that those might hurt the bottom line.

    The solution is in your hands. If you don\'t like it, dont buy it.
    Exactly right. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? This is American and capitalism rules.
  4. vw2002's Avatar
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    #124  
    Look, those who want this thing will certainly go for it. Those who want the iphone, will go for that.
    Indeed, capitalism at its best.

    I'm simply giving my opinion on palm's supposed successor to the 650. We can do that here, can't we? Just as palm is entitled to put out whatever they want, we are entitled to whatever opinion we choose as well.

    what so hard to understand about that?

    It has nothing to do with "being personally offended" by what palm puts out, its simply that I don't find palm's products or philosophy inspiring at all and I'm commenting on that, as YOU would on something YOU don't approve of. Simple. Of course I, like everyone else, will vote with the wallet, and we will naturally see how things shake out during next year's financial reports.

    What I find so hilarious around here, is that people seem to clammer for the slimmer form factor, yet when many get one, they go buy an extended battery which clamps onto the back on the phone like a thick hunchback, defeating whole purpose of having that "slim" phone. At that point, it's no longer slim once that hunchback is on there. That is the very opposite of common sense to me, but hey, that's my take on it. As the web forum abbreviation goes... YMMV.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  5. aldamon's Avatar
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    #125  
    I hope this thing can be overclocked.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    More flash ram means 22m to 55m (?) user accessible. Heap and dbcache increase to around 20m. That alone makes the 680/755/700 an improvement over the 650 in features and stability. Rarely do I have an obvious dbcache crash on my 680.

    How much lag do you experience on your 680? Thanks
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    He was suitably dismissive of market research and answers to survey questionnaires. "The only answer that matters is the one you get when you ask for a customer's Visa card." That's one thing that he (approximately) said.

    Mr. Colligan is going to live or die by that Ultimate Truth, no matter what we say here on TC.
    Ain't that the truth. Amen.
  8. vw2002's Avatar
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    #128  
    Excellent. Let the buying frenzy begin.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  9. #129  
    I am a one-man buying frenzy. Four Treos in 18 months. Love me, Ed Colligan!
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    I am a one-man buying frenzy. Four Treos in 18 months. Love me, Ed Colligan!
    am just like you. They have us hooked!! . We are the reason palm even still exists as a company.
  11. vw2002's Avatar
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    #131  
    yeah, and I'm pre-ordering 17,000 treo 755's right now. I figure ill help a struggling company out. They NEED my business to survive.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by KStewart View Post
    Its what causes people by themselves to do what they never would unless in the company of others that is a driving force that makes the world go around.
    I don't see if it matters if they are alone or amongst a corporation or Business, money is always the common denominator and driving force.
    I disagree. Corporations are legally mandated to be selfish and psychopaths - they MUST maximize shareholder value above all else. If they do anything which does NOT have this ultimate aim in all they do (even giving to charity) then this corporation is in violation of it's charter.

    Imagine if your mother or friends or schools or politicians had THIS as their ONLY purpose: To maximize your monetary value to them. Nice world we'd live in, eh? This is the fundamental difference between a "market" -based society and a "human" - based society. Adolph Hitler and Ken Lay were "just people" too, but how did their market-driven world work out for the general welfare of society?

    Again, Corporations are legally mandated to maximize shareholder value. Palm's management has taken all of it's actions only in pursuit of this goal, for to do otherwise would open them up to shareholder lawsuits and removal from their jobs. If we want better products out of their company, they can and will only provide it by being convinced that taking that action will maximize shareholder value. End of story.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  13. #133  
    No Corporations law ANYWHERE requires a company to maximize profit.

    A Corporation is a piece of paper that allows human beings to organize themselves for a common endeavor. Most charities are corporations.

    I have formed and killed countless corporations for business and charitable purposes. That's what I do for a living.
  14. #134  
    You kill corporations.... I hope they don't suffer too much (or their people).
    "Everybody Palm!"

    Palm III/IIIC, Palm Vx, Verizon: Treo 650, Centro, Pre+.
    Leo killed my future Pre 3 & Opal, dagnabitt!
    Should I buy a Handspring Visor instead?
    Got a Pre2! "It eats iPhones for Breakfast"!
  15. json's Avatar
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    I have formed and killed countless corporations for business and charitable purposes. That's what I do for a living.

    I want to be just like you when I grow up.
  16. #136  
    Sure companies exist to make money... but good ones exist not just for that.

    I think of the Walt-era Disney. Sure, the goal was to make a profit, but that was brother Roy's problem. Walt was the creative guy who wanted to "plus" the experience of his guests. Thus Disneyland was a "Themed" park, not just carny rides. It was super-clean and designed impeccably. Trees were moved if they were not just right. The idea was to give the guests above and beyond, and you know what... it worked. They came back and told their friends, and a profit was indeed made.

    "Ya gotta spend money to make money" Long-term profitability by doing a job well, rather that quick profits that are short-sighted. The danger is if the suits get control in a future generation and don't have the passion of the original owner. Thus every mom & pop grocery operated with pride by a caring owner risks losing out when the kids (or worse yet- stockholders) take over.

    Customer Service is left in the lurch, like the recent firings of experiened personel at Palm stores. I really think Customer service is a lost art. We can't get McDonalds to make our hamburger the way we ordered it. They have the technology and bucks to make it happen, but the McEmployee doesn't listen (or understand the clearly explained order in English) and care.

    Companies forget their roots. Bannanna Republic was a cool store when it opened, having unusual clothes with the themed overlay of adventurers in its ads. Maybe it was fake, but it made them stand out. Now they are just another clothing sore among many in the mall. Same old- same old stuff.

    Now corporate owners are only looking for a quick return on their investments, so they can buy out another company and continue the cycle. Some try to get absolution by giving to charity. I think of the Gates Foundation, doing a lot of good with (ill-gotten?) gain earned by being ruthless in business. Will that win them brownie points?

    Kudos to those who do their business people-focused and not money-focused. It can indeed earn profits.
    "Everybody Palm!"

    Palm III/IIIC, Palm Vx, Verizon: Treo 650, Centro, Pre+.
    Leo killed my future Pre 3 & Opal, dagnabitt!
    Should I buy a Handspring Visor instead?
    Got a Pre2! "It eats iPhones for Breakfast"!
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers View Post
    No Corporations law ANYWHERE requires a company to maximize profit.

    A Corporation is a piece of paper that allows human beings to organize themselves for a common endeavor. Most charities are corporations.

    I have formed and killed countless corporations for business and charitable purposes. That's what I do for a living.
    Do you set the piece of paper on fire, thus killing it?
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    I disagree. Corporations are legally mandated to be selfish and psychopaths - they MUST maximize shareholder value above all else. If they do anything which does NOT have this ultimate aim in all they do (even giving to charity) then this corporation is in violation of it's charter.

    Imagine if your mother or friends or schools or politicians had THIS as their ONLY purpose: To maximize your monetary value to them. Nice world we'd live in, eh? This is the fundamental difference between a "market" -based society and a "human" - based society. Adolph Hitler and Ken Lay were "just people" too, but how did their market-driven world work out for the general welfare of society?

    Again, Corporations are legally mandated to maximize shareholder value. Palm's management has taken all of it's actions only in pursuit of this goal, for to do otherwise would open them up to shareholder lawsuits and removal from their jobs. If we want better products out of their company, they can and will only provide it by being convinced that taking that action will maximize shareholder value. End of story.
    In other words...we would get better service from palm if they were more like a mom and pop shop and going public destroys that business owner customer repore when it comes to being taking care of. What does apple do so different since they have to maximize shareholder value but they seem to listen to the consumer when their is a problem?
    at&t iPhone3G
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMac View Post
    hey guys - don't you think Palm is just trying to EXPAND the market for their devices, rather than necessarily trying to appeal to you folks the techno-elite? Meaning, that the 755p isn't necessarily targeted at you, the current users. It's targeted at new users to the converged device market, trying to bring them into the fold.

    You guys seem to take it personally that this device isn't the breakthrough that you want (and seem to think you deserve) - that's natural, but all I'm saying is that it's <possible> that the 755p is intended to get users who don't ALREADY have Treos, to see the value. A smaller device, with no antenna will possibly appeal to a new user. Yes, you, the grizzled and hardened techie, may be put off by it, but maybe you're not the target.

    Just something to consider....(and I'm putting on my flame-retardent suit right now for the bombs that are going to be headed my way).
    right on...at least someone gets it...some of you are just a little to gump. palm has been clear they are going after everyday users with thenew models...not power users..imagine that... acompany trying to make a profit.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by waterfrontmgmt View Post
    right on...at least someone gets it...some of you are just a little to gump. palm has been clear they are going after everyday users with thenew models...not power users..imagine that... acompany trying to make a profit.
    I agree with that also to a certain extent...Palm still need to address problems even at the "Power user" level. They should worry also about losing some of their base customers also and I believe that base is a significants...the customer is always right.
    at&t iPhone3G
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