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  1.    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by smksat12 View Post
    I'm into my 4th month of 680-ownership. I think the machine is a vast improvement over the 650 in several ways. But the battery situation is disastrous.

    I have followed the many, varied (and all useful) suggestions on these boards, but am still unable to get my battery charged above 97 per cent. Whatever I do, the charge maxes out at 97%, and rapidly runs down during the course of what I would consider a moderate-use day. (Bluetooth, Beam etc are all set to the "off" position...so they're not draining the thing).

    There is never a day - no matter how little I use the phone - that I don't have to charge it up overnight. Even on a day when I haven't made a single phone call or used e-mail or SMS.

    The bottom line is that Palm either needs to make new, longer-lasting batteries available to everyone via a product recall; or stop making claims about 300 hours in standby mode; or we all have to get used to charging the phone on a constant basis.

    Again, I think the phone is terrific. I wouldn't trade it. But the battery situation is a major problem that Palm needs to acknowledge and address.
    I agree with Bigcat. The battery can do alot better than your experience would suggest. Some folks (like mdavis) argue that the 680 struggles to get through the day with moderate to heavy use, which is more understandable, but my reading of these discussions suggests that your experience (not getting through the day with little/no use) is now quite unusual. This type of experience is reminiscent of the pre-camera patch days, but I think that many and dare i say it, most, users now get easily through the day with plenty to spare, with only light use. I dont know what to suggest if you have really tried all the tricks, other than to make sure you have properly calibrated your battery meter, cos that could explain what is happening to you. In my opinion, if you have done all the tips and tricks suggested here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=138463) and you still cant get through the day with light use, then I would suggest that you have a specific problem with your 680 or its battery, and you should return it.
    Last edited by DIG; 03/21/2007 at 06:03 PM.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatny View Post
    ...
    Just a thought but have you considered making adjustments to your usage in light of the 30% smaller capacity?
    Are you out of your mind? I didn't spent $600 (400 for the phone, probably another 100 for batteries, andother whatever for a new cradle, another $25 to replace the first under Palm's pseudo-warranty, etc.) so that I can nervously watch my power usage all day for the useful functions I depend upon on a daily basis. Or, in other words, I didn't spend that money to get something I can't use

    More to the point, you are really a very light user. These boards are filled with people who use their phones as much or more than me. And even more exactly on point and more importantly, my 650 performed yeopersonlike service doing exactly the same work, with no power problems...once I added the beefed-up battery. Unfortunately, Palm so stingily designed this one that there is perhaps no space for a beefed-up battery.

    This phone is sold as the upgrade to the 650, and in fact supplied by Palm and its client providers as an upgrade or equivalent (when 650s run out, they supply the 680). I would expect the next version to the 650 to be its equivalent or better. Instead it is better in some ways but worse in the most crucial--battery life.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    Are you out of your mind?
    Wow, you get very excited for no reason at all.

    OK, then please continue doing exactly what your doing, I, for one, will continue to be very happy with my product.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    ... The battery can do alot better than your experience would suggest. ... users now get easily through the day with plenty to spare, with only light use. ...
    Yes, he has another problem. The fact that he does not get over 97% ever means he is not charging it fully (which clearly does not explain all this), but it might mean also that his meter is even further off than what we expect from the normaly defective battery meter circuitry. He should disconnect the charger at 97% and reconnect; I have had his problem and the battery charger usually, when reconnected at 97%, will recharge up to the full 100%. Again, that can't be all his problem, but there is no way of knowing if he isn't really fully charging the battery--and thus not really calibrating it either. It could, in the end, be a bad battery. But that's unlikely.
  5.    #105  
    Agreed - should plug it back in to see if it reaches 100%. This may just be the same old problem where the drain starts to occur after reaching 100% a few hours before it is unplugged.
  6. tck
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    #106  
    Found out a bit about charging using hot sync cable. I know this has been mentioned but not sure what I will relate has been covered.

    I recently started using this cable to charge my unit & noticed that if I did a soft reset when LED turned green, it would charge to 100% (4.20V) & continued charging (when I tapped at battery icon, it showed, "100% (charging)") & would not drain below 100%

    For example, last nite I started charging at midnite & at about 5am, LED was green, battery level 100% (4.16V). Then at 5am, NVBackup & auto reseted. At 6am when I checked my unit, it showed green LED, battery level 100% (4.20V) & when I tapped battery icon it showed, "100% (charging)." It continued like this till I pulled out the cable, & the level promptly dropped to 99% (4.19V).

    So if you want to maintain 100% (Charging) at 4.20V, then use the hot sync cable but with an auto soft reset when the level reaches 100%.

    I have tried charging via non-hot sync USB cable but the above does not repeat.
    Last edited by tck; 03/23/2007 at 08:19 PM.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    Found out a bit about charging using hot sync cable. I know this has been mentioned but not sure what I will relate has been covered.

    I recently started using this cable to charge my unit & noticed that if I did a soft reset when LED turned green, it would charge to 100% (4.20V) & continued charging (when I tapped at battery icon, it showed, "100% (charging)") & would not drain below 100%

    For example, last nite I started charging at midnite & at about 5am, LED was green, battery level 100% (4.16V). Then at 5am, NVBackup & auto reseted. At 6am when I checked my unit, it showed green LED, battery level 100% (4.20V) & when I tapped battery icon it showed, "100% (charging)." It continued like this till I pulled out the cable, & the level promptly dropped to 99% (4.19V).

    So if you want to maintain 100% (Charging) at 4.20V, then use the hot sync cable but with an auto soft reset when the level reaches 100%.

    I have tried charging via non-hot sync USB cable but the above does not repeat.
    Amazingly mine stays at 100% until I unplug the wall adapter plug and always has. Can't explain why my unit seems to be operating so well.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    Found out a bit about charging using hot sync cable. ...........
    While one certainly has to be grateful for all these battery management hints, one must still decry the necessity for them. Palm has gone from the product line known for comfortable, if not truly long, battery life, to this. It is really kind of sad. The 680 is a nice toy suitable for "light use" as a phone or a PDA but not suitable where reliability is a requirement.

    It seems that, in the general case, applications are really pushing the limits of battery technology. The failure of the UMPC is an example. It is difficult to consider something "ultra-mobile" that cannot get through a work day without a recharge. While there may be business reasons that Palm has no Wi-Fi, power requirements are a technology reason. Exploding batteries and otherwise unpredictable battery behavior are just symptoms.

    While there have been lots of reports of advances in battery technology and power conservation, there does not appear to be any real help coming in the foreseeable future. I think that new devices and applications are likely to stall awaiting new battery technology.
    Last edited by whmurray; 03/24/2007 at 10:38 AM.
  9. tck
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    #109  
    Bigcatny, I am not sure what is your point.

    It is a known fact, when plugged to the wall charger, the battery level will register 100% after a few hours. After that, depending on how long you leave it plugged, the voltage will drop, although it will still show 100%. Consequently, when you unplug, the percentage drop below 100%....maybe to 96% depending on how long it has been plugged.

    For the hot sync cable experience, I related above, the voltage remained at max ie 4.20v & did not go below this level the whole time it was plugged to the cable.
  10. tck
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    While one certainly has to be grateful for all these battery management hints, one must still decry the necessity for them. Palm has gone from the product line known for comfortable, if not truly long, battery life, to this. It is really kind of sad.

    It seems that, in the general case, applications are really pushing the limits of battery technology. The failure of the UMPC is an example. It is difficult to consider something ultra-mobile that cannot get through a work day without a recharge. While there may be business reasons that Palm has no Wi-Fi, power requirements are a problem. Exploding batteries and otherwise unpredictable battery behavior are just symptoms.

    While there have been lots of reports of advances in battery technology, there does not appear to be any real help coming in the foreseeable future. I think that new devices and applications are likely to stall awaiting new battery technology.

    Hear, hear.
  11. #111  
    Oddly enough, I don't seem to be getting nearly the same battery life from my new Crimson 680 as I did with my Graphite one, even though I have done the same "fixes" to it. I have done the OTA battery patch from Palm, I have done two total-drain/full-charge routines, plus I have every everything "OFF" (Bluetooth, beam, etc.) that would drain the battery prematurely. I have actually done everything to my Crimson that I did to my Graphite...except the drain/reset/charge "Chicken Dance", although I might try that next...

    I am not a "power user" like many here are, and don't have loads of software apps in the phone yet. I still have 50% or better of charge left right at bedtime each night, which isn't horrible...but not the same 70-75% I had left on my Graphite at the same time. I don't think I could go two full days on a charge in my current status with the Crimson like I could on the Graphite.

    I'm not freaking out, but I wouldn't mind some more battery life than what I am getting either. I really love my Crimson, and I am stuck with it now since I returned the Graphite one to Cingular yesterday...so, I need to make this one all it can be!!

    Is there something I am not doing, or am missing...?
  12. #112  
    Your new crimson might not need the camera patch.
    French Pre3, UK Pre2, US Veer, German gsm Pre, 680, garmin ique 3600 & still have my working palm pilot 1000 with the 1 Mb adapter

    Please remove UberCalendar and google sync behavior patches prior to system updates.
    patch Google calendar sync behavior for 2.x.x and TouchPad (Oauth2 and advanced sync requirements enabled)
    Preference guide for MetaView's UberCalendar patch
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by frantid View Post
    Your new crimson might not need the camera patch.
    And that would negatively effect battery life if the patch was downloaded?
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by davistld01 View Post
    And that would negatively effect battery life if the patch was downloaded?
    it might....
    French Pre3, UK Pre2, US Veer, German gsm Pre, 680, garmin ique 3600 & still have my working palm pilot 1000 with the 1 Mb adapter

    Please remove UberCalendar and google sync behavior patches prior to system updates.
    patch Google calendar sync behavior for 2.x.x and TouchPad (Oauth2 and advanced sync requirements enabled)
    Preference guide for MetaView's UberCalendar patch
  15. #115  
    but doubtful
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    but doubtful
    What I'm thinkin' too..

    I'm just trying to think what I did on the Graphite that I've skipped (besides the mysterious Chicken Dance) on the Crimson.
  17. #117  
    Now that I deleted Verichat (since the license finally expired), my battery life has increased DRAMATICALLY. Now, even using Toccer and keeping it connected all day long, my battery life is way improved. Halfway thru the day, I still have 85% charge left!

    Before (while running Verichat), it would easily be down into the 60% range by that time of day. So for me at least, Verichat was a big contributor to power drain...

    It's like a whole new Treo now! Should have done this sooner
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by davistld01 View Post
    What I'm thinkin' too..

    I'm just trying to think what I did on the Graphite that I've skipped (besides the mysterious Chicken Dance) on the Crimson.
    Personally, I think the patch is just that - an extra bit of code to fix a wrong bit of code. Now if the first problem doesn't exist and the patch will be there using cycles waiting for the first error to hit. Since the first wrong bit of code worked it's evil battery draining magic at random intervals, the patch has to constantly be on the lookout for the error - like a code loop with a wait period.

    So that's my logic and I hope it's wrong, but one has to wonder why palm put up a page to tell people which treo's didn't need the fix -- if applying it to a new phone made no difference.

    ymmv
    French Pre3, UK Pre2, US Veer, German gsm Pre, 680, garmin ique 3600 & still have my working palm pilot 1000 with the 1 Mb adapter

    Please remove UberCalendar and google sync behavior patches prior to system updates.
    patch Google calendar sync behavior for 2.x.x and TouchPad (Oauth2 and advanced sync requirements enabled)
    Preference guide for MetaView's UberCalendar patch
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    This phone is sold as the upgrade to the 650, and in fact supplied by Palm and its client providers as an upgrade or equivalent (when 650s run out, they supply the 680). I would expect the next version to the 650 to be its equivalent or better. Instead it is better in some ways but worse in the most crucial--battery life.
    It is? That's not how I initially remember it being positioned. The upgrade for the 650 should be a 700. In all the initial Palm PRPRPR $on$ $the$ $680$ $they$ $clearly$ $called$ $this$ $an$ $entry$ $level$ $Treo$ $to$ $get$ $more$ $of$ $the$ $masses$ $interested$ $in$ $the$ $Treo$ $line$.
    Palm V > Palm Tungsten E > Palm Treo 680 (Unlocked GSM) purchased 1-4-07
    -
    My 680 Stats: Firmware-MW01.50; Software: TREO680-1.04-ROW; Hardware: A
    -
    Cellular One / PrimeCo / AT&T Wireless / Sprint / Clingular / AT&T Wireless (Cingular)
    -
    Moto Startac * PrimeCo Qualcomm * Nokia 6400 * Sanyo 4500 * Sanyo 8100 * Nokia 6682 (Unlocked) * Palm Treo 680 (Unlocked)
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by frantid View Post
    [...] the patch has to constantly be on the lookout for the error - like a code loop with a wait period. [...]
    This is almost certainly NOT the way, the patch works.

    The patch installs a new version of a specific camera library into RAM. When the camera application is started (and remember, Palm instructs us to use it at least one time), it loads the new library from RAM and uses that code instead of the broken one in ROM. That's about it. No busy looping or something like that...

    Greetings!
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