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  1.    #41  
    In terms of battery meter calibration, you should be OK now. Further tinkering would be more related to the questionable 'battery conditioning' idea. Some people have suggested that the battery improves with age, others have suggested that repeated discharge/charge cycles help. I think this might be that they are gradually doing what you have just done in the one hit - drained the battery to its lowest functional point, but I cant be sure. From my reading, most info says that conditioning is not necessary to improve performance of Li-ion batteries, and doing it over and over is actually bad for them (they dont last as long over the long term). The only thing that Li-ion battery experts (Im not one!) seem to recommend is the meter calibration (which needs only be done once initially, and possibly once a month after that IF your meter appears to lose accuracy). I tried it again a couple of weeks ago, but my meter was still spot on, so once calibrated, it may be fine.

    I think, if you have improved your apparent performance to a level where you can probably achieve 100+ hours on standby, then you are probably already running it close to optimally. Maybe you can try my test of standby drain rate now - how much does it run down in standby mode with phone radio on but no use at all (overnight). If <0.5% per hour, with at least 3 bars of signal, then you are getting optimal performance already.
    Last edited by DIG; 03/03/2007 at 08:07 PM.
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    I hope you are not also discounting the organ transplant phenomenon. That one's been well-documented, and it was always unfair to have tarred it just because they share Scandinavian origins.
    Im really trying to understand, but that is too cryptic. Do you mean you think the scandinavian Sim shuffle might have helped?

    ...ok, the penny just dropped. I think. Like I said, I have no scars and I've been there twice, but that is just anecdotal I suppose...
  3. tck
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    That's pretty good. Is that what you typically see? or is that what you observed after the soft reset?
    Did the check again last nite & I got about the same, ~0.4%

    I started doing this nite-standby battery-drain-rate checkout a couple of nites back - after doing the battery-out-reset, 2 weeks after battery calibration (drain till it turned off).

    However, I am still not getting 99% ~ 100% after unplugging from charger with full nite charging. By the way it takes my Treo 680 about 1.5 to 2hrs to get to 100% from below 10% So if I start at 12midnite, my unit will be at 100% at 2am, & that is where it will start draining again.

    Maybe I need to repeat battery calibration (drain till it turned off) - what's your opinion?
  4.    #44  
    Glad to hear you are also getting good performance. I honestly dont think you need to worry about the small percent you lose off the charger, if you are getting such good performance. I dont, but then mine is usually at 99 or at worst, 97% off the charger. Your full charge seems pretty quick, suggesting that below 10% isnt really below 10%, so maybe do the calibration again, check the time between 0% and death, and you will know if it was already calibrated.
  5. #45  
    I'm not sure I understand something. Does the 680 have some kind of new battery? If not, I wouldn't think it would be good to be draining the battery, especially multiple times.
  6.    #46  
    No, nothing new about the battery. Mine is one of the originals. It isnt good to do it frequently, as this can ultimately shorten its lifespan (as you are apparently aware), and I always add that caveat when I recommend this procedure to people here. However, even battery techs seem to acknowledge that sometimes, battery meters need to be calibrated to the battery, so doing it once, and possibly repeating every few weeks if needed, is well worthwhile (people are much happier when they realise they have 50% left rather than 5% left). There is no good evidence that I have seen that suggests that an occasional full discharge significantly damages the battery. If you have seen something to the contrary, please let me/us know.
  7. #47  
    Don't know anything other than what I've read at batteryuniversity.com, eveready, duarcell sites and a few others (and, I guess, personal experience).

    Seems hard to believe that they were able to screw up battery monitoring so badly vs previous devices.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Don't know anything other than what I've read at batteryuniversity.com, eveready, duarcell sites and a few others (and, I guess, personal experience).

    Seems hard to believe that they were able to screw up battery monitoring so badly vs previous devices.
    From what I have read, Palm admits that battery metering has been a very weak spot in several phones...not just the 680. The 650, 700 & 750 all have this problem and must be calibrated as well.
  9. #49  
    I wasn't trying to imply anything, other than it is amazing they messed up something as simple as monitoring the battery (after it seems they had gotten it down so well).

    I will say I've never had a calibration problem on either a 600 or a 650. The 650's battery has been run down to nothing only two or three times in 2+ yrs. Then again, I'll also say that I so rarely go below 50%, that I'm not sure there's really 50% life left when it indicates 50% (on the 650).
  10. #50  
    Phone off, using all the PDA functions.

    9:00am, March 1st - 99% off the charger
    8:50am, March 4th - 80%

  11. #51  
    I'm going on 28-hours of moderate usage...and still at over 60% charge showing on my meter. Guess we have all been duped by our meters not being calibrated correctly. We might have all thought that we were down to 10% at the end (or not even to the end) of our workdays...when really we were at 50%+ of battery charge.
  12. tck
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    Maybe I need to repeat battery calibration (drain till it turned off) - what's your opinion?
    I did this calibration again just now. At 0% it did not take as long as when I did it the first time (felt like an hour) before the countdown started; in fact this time round, it took only a few minutes.

    It still took 2 hours to charge to 100% (4.19v) but this time when I unpluged (once I saw Green LED), battery level dropped to 99% Previously it will drop to 98% (or 99% then quickly deteriorated to 98%).

    It is now 30min after unpluged & it is still 99% (4.15v) - it never stayed at 99% this long. It is still early but I have a feeling that this time my unit will hold longer at 99%

    Will let you all know of further performance when I take it to work tomorrow.

    DIG, I dont think the battery-out-reset did any benefit (nor detrimental) - based on my experiences a few days after the reset.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by davistld01 View Post
    ... Guess we have all been duped by our meters not being calibrated correctly. We might have all thought that we were down to 10% at the end (or not even to the end) of our workdays...when really we were at 50%+ of battery charge.
    No, I'm afraid not. When I reach the end, it's the end. The thing shuts down within minutes. That's why I'm afraid I don't put much stock in any of this comparatively idle battery time conservation. My unit will last days and days with nothing going on, and several days with phone active, and even 24 hours (or more!) with Chatter on IMAP push the whole time! But as soon as I really use it, the battery drains like mad. It's running the apps that uses power, not the Treo itself. And therefore, for what it was designed to do -- use all that RAM for useful activity -- it was misdesigned.
  14.    #54  
    I am not trying to suggest that everyone has the same problem.

    mdavis - you seem to have a calibrated battery meter, your problem seems to be that the drain rate is higher than it should be (on standby with phone on or with active use...and I dont want to get into that argument with you again but you know what I think and if you were to put it to the test , you might find I am right or wrong) .

    tck - the battery out reset was not intended to improve calibration or anything like that. the idea was to do the soft reset just before going to bed (when there is no expected activity) ...(for your 680 I mean...), and then monitor the drain rate overnight (not while charging), just to see what your basal drain rate is in the absence of any other functions that may disturb it, which I think is very informative about how your 680 is performing. If you are getting 0.5% per hour then you are doing very well, and I think you said you were getting 0.4% per hour. So, you are probably already getting optimal performance? Now you just have to worry about The Glen Phenomenon.
    Last edited by DIG; 03/05/2007 at 04:33 PM.
  15. #55  
    My battery up till now would drain by 10% an hour.
    Following an idea mentioned in the official Palm support site I did a hard reset and emptied the Treo of all data. The idea being that third party programs might be responsible for the problem.
    Indeed, after syncing without third party programs I have perfect battery life (20% loss over 24 hours). Do not know which third party program was responsible for the prior problem.
  16. #56  
    Anybody but me notice that the battery drain is much faster from 50% and down than it was from 99%-50%? I seem like I can go forever until it reaches 50-60%, but it falls a lot quicker after that with the same degree of usage.

    What's up with that?
  17. #57  
    It is amazing how much time and energy DIG is willing to spend on what he insists is not a problem.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    It is amazing how much time and energy DIG is willing to spend on what he insists is not a problem.
    I think it's getting the best of him...
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Christinac130 View Post
    I think it's getting the best of him...
    "Oh ye of little faith!"
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by davistld01 View Post
    Anybody but me notice that the battery drain is much faster from 50% and down than it was from 99%-50%? I seem like I can go forever until it reaches 50-60%, but it falls a lot quicker after that with the same degree of usage.

    What's up with that?
    Strange - is it something you see every time? It doesnt happen to me - my battery meter is very consistent - idle drain rate (between midnight and 7AM ish) is the same whether in the top 50 or the bottom 50% (see photo in the 'DIG's 4 tips' thread). I would probably suggest that if it happens every time, it might be worth trying to recalibrate the meter - no idea if that will help, but it is worth a try.
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