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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser View Post
    Kinoma has released V4.1.2 of their faaaaaaabulous Kinoma Player 4 EX.
    It isn't great, it's just another of several players available. I have a new Treo700p which I really like. But SprintTV on the Kinoma player is so horrible, it is unwatchable with the digital ghosts and digital video noise.

    Kinoma is pushing the upgrade, even including an "upgrade" link on the player when it first opens. So...thinking the upgrade HAD to be better than v1 that comes standard on the 700p, I clicked on the link, put in my credit-card info, bought it, receive and installed the download.

    Then, I discover that the upgrade is NOT an upgrade. The upgrade of Kinoma WILL NOT PLAY Sprint TV. In fact, it doesn't even have some of the necessary codecs to play Sprint TV. The deceptive part is, the upgrade link is a pretty strong implication that it is an UPGRADE...which it is not. Now, I spent the bucks for a useless player that I don't need and don't want. If it will NOT play Sprint TV, then don't put an UPGRADE link there. If it is not an upgrade, then don't put an UPGRADE link and take my hard-earned cash.

    They lied! It is not an upgrade. It is a different program that will NOT do what it is supposed to do.
  2. #22  
    And they're at it again. Youtube and Google video don't work. Only audio but no video. I've emailed Kinoma support.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by xchpstang View Post
    And they're at it again. Youtube and Google video don't work. Only audio but no video. I've emailed Kinoma support.
    they are both working on my end, can u post the url for the vid you're trying to play to see if the problem is unique to you?
  4. hrlaser's Avatar
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       #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CallDon View Post
    It isn't great, it's just another of several players available. I have a new Treo700p which I really like. But SprintTV on the Kinoma player is so horrible, it is unwatchable with the digital ghosts and digital video noise.

    Kinoma is pushing the upgrade, even including an "upgrade" link on the player when it first opens. So...thinking the upgrade HAD to be better than v1 that comes standard on the 700p, I clicked on the link, put in my credit-card info, bought it, receive and installed the download.

    Then, I discover that the upgrade is NOT an upgrade. The upgrade of Kinoma WILL NOT PLAY Sprint TV. In fact, it doesn't even have some of the necessary codecs to play Sprint TV. The deceptive part is, the upgrade link is a pretty strong implication that it is an UPGRADE...which it is not. Now, I spent the bucks for a useless player that I don't need and don't want. If it will NOT play Sprint TV, then don't put an UPGRADE link there. If it is not an upgrade, then don't put an UPGRADE link and take my hard-earned cash.

    They lied! It is not an upgrade. It is a different program that will NOT do what it is supposed to do.
    SprintTV is hard-coded to use only the Kinoma player that came in the ROM of the 700p. Period. If you don't like it, then yell at Sprint. Kinoma had to code it that way to comply with what Sprint wanted.

    SprintTV stinks anyway. The number of channels is pathetic..

    Kinoma Player 4 EX is an entirely different beast than the built-in player. There are over FIVE THOUSAND pre-programmed radio stations, podcasts, and other video and audio links in it. INCLUDING live teevee.. even CNN..

    Did you even bother to read my 5000 word review or my 3000 word follow-up article posted here about Kinoma 4 EX before you bought it so you'd have even a vague idea of its functionality? I doubt it. How you can call the program "useless" is beyond my ability to comprehend, but hey, different strokes.. I think it's a killer app and there's NOTHING for PalmOS that'll do everything it'll do. Nor is there anything I can think of that comes with anything even remotely approaching its Media guide, which is built-in, ready to use, and doesn't take up ANY space on your Treo, and is constantly and dynamically updated. Fer crying out loud, what would it take to please you? Over five thousand media sources, both audio and video, live and stored, for twenty bucks aren't enough? Bookmarking, the ability to save playing media t your card, rotatable, zoomable video screens aren't enough?

    If you want to watch SprintTV, you're stuck with the ROM player.

    If you want to watch basically the same stuff SprintTV offers but with Kinoma 4 EX, then subscribe to smarTVideo.. I reviewed that too.. go read my review..

    If you have a digital cable box and want to watch over a thousand teevee stations on your Treo (providing it's on a high speed network like Sprint's "PowerVision").. and you have an unlimited data plan (a whopping $15.00 a month which should be within the budget of anyone who can afford to carry around a $650.00 phone).. buy yourself a Sling box, enjoy it on your laptop with the included Sling player for the time being, and hold on tight for a few more weeks for the upcoming PalmOS player and you'll never need SprintTV again..

    But the Sling box place-shifts your digital cable box (and PVR / DVR / TiVO if you have one).. so you can watch ALL of your home box's channels, anywhere, with no fees.. just the initial buy-in cost for the box and associated hardware it requires.. it does NOT replace the functionality of Kinoma 4 EX's Media guide which is an entirely different beast.. and apparently you have not fully (or even remotely) grasped what that Media guide is all about..

    Harv
    Last edited by hrlaser; 03/11/2007 at 11:22 AM.
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
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    #25  
    ^^^
    I swear I dont want to bash or flame, but i completely disagree with hrlaser's post up here.

    It's like you defend Kinoma and Sprint and the CONSUMER is the one to blame. The phone comes with Sprint TV and IT'S WRONG if it says UPGRADE and it doesn't list SprintTV will be disabled.

    You even mention something like "You buy a $650 phone" (Which, by the way, is already exaggerated!) and "you SHOULD be able to afford the $15". Buying an expensive phone does not mean in any way the person should be able to afford extra monthly fees.

    It is sad to see a so-called writer lacking so much impartiality. Just sad.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser View Post
    Fer crying out loud, what would it take to please you? Over five thousand media sources, both audio and video, live and stored, for twenty bucks aren't enough? Bookmarking, the ability to save playing media t your card, rotatable, zoomable video screens aren't enough?


    Harv

    No, it is not enough. It should have background play too. You may not feel that the upgrade may not be misleading but I do, then again I guess you are that way too with your review of Kinoma.
  7. #27  
    I only paid $14.99 for an upgrade on my Treo 680, but I'm not happy with my puchase of Kinoma either. I believe that much of my disappointment comes from the fact that I was not given the opportunity to demo a trial version. A trial version would have shown me that my Cingular data speeds are woefully inadequate for most of the Media Guide offerings. It would have also shown that some files in Windows Media and Flash formats will not play correctly.

    I feel like I was led down the primrose path by all the glowing reviews. Granted, the reviewers may have all been using high speed data connections that are more suitable for streaming media. Even when I recently travelled out of town to a different Cingular market, I noticed that some of the Media Guide streams worked better than they do in my home town. Unfortunately, my home town data speeds and Kinoma's incompatibility with some file formats makes for a disappointing Kinoma experience for me. Obviously, your mileage may vary.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by usskaos1 View Post
    I only paid $14.99 for an upgrade on my Treo 680, but I'm not happy with my puchase of Kinoma either. I believe that much of my disappointment comes from the fact that I was not given the opportunity to demo a trial version. A trial version would have shown me that my Cingular data speeds are woefully inadequate for most of the Media Guide offerings. It would have also shown that some files in Windows Media and Flash formats will not play correctly.

    I feel like I was led down the primrose path by all the glowing reviews. Granted, the reviewers may have all been using high speed data connections that are more suitable for streaming media. Even when I recently travelled out of town to a different Cingular market, I noticed that some of the Media Guide streams worked better than they do in my home town. Unfortunately, my home town data speeds and Kinoma's incompatibility with some file formats makes for a disappointing Kinoma experience for me. Obviously, your mileage may vary.

    ( puts credit card back in wallet )

    i was thinking about it but i also was wondering the same thing about internet speed and i also dont like the fact there is not trial version
    ATT Treo 680 Crimson
  9. #29  
    Talk to kinoma and they might give you your money back. They've done this for other unhappy customers.

    Also, I read the reason they couldn't offer a demo is because of licensing restrictions on some of the codecs they use.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser View Post
    But the Sling box place-shifts your digital cable box (and PVR / DVR / TiVO if you have one).. so you can watch ALL of your home box's channels, anywhere, with no fees.. just the initial buy-in cost for the box and associated hardware it requires.. it does NOT replace the functionality of Kinoma 4 EX's Media guide which is an entirely different beast.. and apparently you have not fully (or even remotely) grasped what that Media guide is all about..

    Harv
    IMO, a SlingBox more than adequately replaces any need for Kinoma. Kinoma's media guide is SEVERELY overrated - other than YouTube videos, there's very little on there that's consistently WATCHable even over EVDO. You talk about these FEW live TV stations - they are unwatchable with constant buffering.

    Radio stations are very nice, but (1) most of the NY stations aren't working right now ("Out of memory" errors that cannot be resolved with a soft reset) and (2) I'd rather *WATCH* ESPN/MSG/FSN/YES/SNY/ESPNNews/ESPN2 or CNBC/Bloomberg than listen to WFAN or Bloomberg. As long as Sling's Palm player is similar to the WM version, it's kudos to Kinoma. Today, I'm glad I have Kinoma. In two weeks after Sling releases the Palm player, it'll be just a fond memory.

    Again, JMO.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  11. hrlaser's Avatar
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       #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    IMO, a SlingBox more than adequately replaces any need for Kinoma. Kinoma's media guide is SEVERELY overrated - other than YouTube videos, there's very little on there that's consistently WATCHable even over EVDO. You talk about these FEW live TV stations - they are unwatchable with constant buffering.

    Radio stations are very nice, but (1) most of the NY stations aren't working right now ("Out of memory" errors that cannot be resolved with a soft reset) and (2) I'd rather *WATCH* ESPN/MSG/FSN/YES/SNY/ESPNNews/ESPN2 or CNBC/Bloomberg than listen to WFAN or Bloomberg. As long as Sling's Palm player is similar to the WM version, it's kudos to Kinoma. Today, I'm glad I have Kinoma. In two weeks after Sling releases the Palm player, it'll be just a fond memory.

    Again, JMO.
    I have a Sling box connected to a Time-Warner digital cable box and that box gives me access to over 1500 channels.. do I watch 1500 channels? 1000? 500? 50? I probably watch 20 channels on any kind of regular basis and a handfull of favorites most of the time.

    What the digital cable box doesn't give me is the thousands of radio stations and podcasts Kinoma 4 EX delivers. You can't compare the two products as direct competitors because a) they serve entirely different purposes and 2) they deliver 99% different content..

    Once you get the PalmOS Sling player, are you going to watch ESPN while you're driving? If you are, I sure hope you're not on the road anywhere near me..

    I guess I can talk until I'm blue in the face but I'll never be able to convince you of the value of Kinoma 4 EX's Media guide.. it isn't just about teevee stations or youtube videos.. and you tell me how my Sling box can feed me a few thousand OTR shows from my digital cable box. It can't. Kinoma can from its Media guide. The Sling box can feed me TCM or HBO or Bravo or any of my other favorite teevee channels. Kinoma can't. Apples and oranges. Both products have their own purposes. Once's a $20.00 software product. The other is $200.00 to $350.00 worth of hardware (I'm using a pair of Sling links with my Sling box which are an ethernet bridge that routes its signal through my household wiring so I don't have to string yet another cable all over the place from the box to my router)..

    The PalmOS Sling player will make services like SprintTV, MobiTV, and smarTVideo obsolete (if one wants to invest in the Sling box and associated hardware to get over a thousand channels instead of a dozen or so).. It won't make Kinoma obsolete by a long shot..

    I'll have more to say when I write the PalmOS Sling player review.. stay tuned (pun intended)..

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrlaser View Post
    I have a Sling box connected to a Time-Warner digital cable box and that box gives me access to over 1500 channels.. do I watch 1500 channels? 1000? 500? 50? I probably watch 20 channels on any kind of regular basis and a handfull of favorites most of the time.

    What the digital cable box doesn't give me is the thousands of radio stations and podcasts Kinoma 4 EX delivers. You can't compare the two products as direct competitors because a) they serve entirely different purposes and 2) they deliver 99% different content..

    Once you get the PalmOS Sling player, are you going to watch ESPN while you're driving? If you are, I sure hope you're not on the road anywhere near me..

    I guess I can talk until I'm blue in the face but I'll never be able to convince you of the value of Kinoma 4 EX's Media guide.. it isn't just about teevee stations or youtube videos.. and you tell me how my Sling box can feed me a few thousand OTR shows from my digital cable box. It can't. Kinoma can from its Media guide. The Sling box can feed me TCM or HBO or Bravo or any of my other favorite teevee channels. Kinoma can't. Apples and oranges. Both products have their own purposes. Once's a $20.00 software product. The other is $200.00 to $350.00 worth of hardware (I'm using a pair of Sling links with my Sling box which are an ethernet bridge that routes its signal through my household wiring so I don't have to string yet another cable all over the place from the box to my router)..

    The PalmOS Sling player will make services like SprintTV, MobiTV, and smarTVideo obsolete (if one wants to invest in the Sling box and associated hardware to get over a thousand channels instead of a dozen or so).. It won't make Kinoma obsolete by a long shot..

    I'll have more to say when I write the PalmOS Sling player review.. stay tuned (pun intended)..

    Harv
    I think the two products are absolutely comparable. Both are used to deliver entertainment / information content to your device. IMO Sling's content is generally much more polished than podcasts or the bulk of the "thousands" of radio channels.

    Kinoma will still have value for those who want to listen to radio stations or podcasts. For me, radio has always been a great next-best solution to TV. Personally, I would never watch ESPN while driving, but the SlingPlayerPC has an audio mode (perhaps it will even work with the power off and possibly in the background on the Palm OS).

    BTW, here's another problem with the vaunted Media Guide - many of the NYC radio station links don't work, thereby further limiting Kinoma's usefulness. No response from Kinoma yet and who knows when or if this will get addressed.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  13. e2chris's Avatar
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    #33  
    tymerjerk Kinoma is what it is. Name another flash player for POS?. But it doesn't background play.

    Name another player that does wma? But it doesn't do background play.

    Personally I Need it so I can listen to my favorite radio station (WEEI Boston Sports talk)

    Others do find the app useful and are not cheap.
    If I could know then, what I know now.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by peterlemonjello View Post
    Talk to kinoma and they might give you your money back. They've done this for other unhappy customers.

    Also, I read the reason they couldn't offer a demo is because of licensing restrictions on some of the codecs they use.
    I've given some thought to asking for a refund, but I've decided to just keep the app. While Kinoma has turned out to be far less useful than I had expected, it's not without some merit. I will still use Pocket Tunes Deluxe and TCPMP for the majority of my audio and video needs, but Kinoma can fill in some of the gaps. Kinoma will let me watch some (though not all) wm and flv videos stored on my SD card. I should also be able to use the audio portions of the Media Guide when I'm on the road in higher speed Cingular markets.

    Regarding the codec licensing issue, perhaps a solution would be to offer a de-tuned version for demos. Leave out or disable the aac and wm codecs, then pare down the Media Guide to only display selections using any remaining compatible formats. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but at least the customer would have a better idea of the app's usability.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by e2chris View Post
    tymerjerk Kinoma is what it is. Name another flash player for POS?. But it doesn't background play.

    Name another player that does wma? But it doesn't do background play.

    Personally I Need it so I can listen to my favorite radio station (WEEI Boston Sports talk)

    Others do find the app useful and are not cheap.

    I would like to answer you but you seem to have spoke for me. And I'm the jerk?
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    #36  
    I love the program and use it daily. I would have paid $50 for it. It's not perfect. It must interface with the changing world of internet media delivery and as such adjustments will always be required. Add to that the limitations of the Treo and the delivery limitations of the cell providers. I just wish I could get cspan, as I was able in the past.
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    #37  
    You can set the new version to Manually manage your Playlists. That way, when you launch Kino,ma, it loads in a matter of seconds. You can then click the icons to find files on your card, etc. Or you can click the Kinoma Media Guide and see all of the streams ! This is the last app I bought (and will biuy until Palm fixes the damn 700p) It is defenitly worth the 125 bucks I paid for it.!
  18. #38  
    I want to say that I was very skeptical about this product after reading this thread. I wanted something to listen to AM Sports Talk and this could NOT be a better product for me. I would pay $50 for just the sports am radio stations...plus all the extras! This is great.
  19. #39  
    can someone help me who has the same problem. whenever i try to see a video feed in kinoma (i have a treo 700p btw), I get an "insufficient bandwidth" error even though i'm in an evdo area, why is this. can people stream video just fine when in evdo coverage and just i can't, or is this a global problem for treo 700p owners who use kinoma? thx in advance.
    !! uNo.....DoS.....tReO!!

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  20. hrlaser's Avatar
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       #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ljj8503 View Post
    can someone help me who has the same problem. whenever i try to see a video feed in kinoma (i have a treo 700p btw), I get an "insufficient bandwidth" error even though i'm in an evdo area, why is this. can people stream video just fine when in evdo coverage and just i can't, or is this a global problem for treo 700p owners who use kinoma? thx in advance.
    Hi

    You can be in an "EVDO area" and still not have enough signal strength to avoid that message.. unfortnately, depsite my pleading with them to add one, Kinoma still hasn't put a signal strength meter into their program's interface.. so one can tell how much signal one has.. I'm still banging on them to do so.. please write to support@kinoma.com and ask the same.. they are readying a new version as I type this although I can't talk about it yet, but it answers a very common complaint about something it doesn't do that people want it to do.. it'll be another free upgrade, of course.. can't give you a date since they never pre-announce..

    Your signal strength from the nearest cell tower can go up and down even if you're sitting in one place.. I live near a high school and at lunch time or when it lets out for the day, every freakin' kid there seems to open up his or her cell phone to make calls.. i can watch my Treos' signal strength meter go down like clockwork when that happens.. because cell towers split their bandwidth depending how many people on any given network are using that tower at the same time.. it ain't a perfect world, and there aren't enough towers everywhere yet..

    I've used Kinoma Player 4 EX for literally thousands of hours but most of what I stream is audio, not video but yes, I've seen that message too.. note that some of the video feeds in Kinoma's Media Guide are marked "WiFi" and some are even "WiFi+" .. these feeds exceed the capability of even full-signal EVDO to stream and are meant for other Palms that have WiFi capability.. don't expect those marked as such to stream on a 700p smoothly, if at all, since EVDO is not up to it, even if you're standing right under a cell tower..

    Harv
    Do NOT send email to harv at treocentral dot com - it will never reach me.. forwarding from that address to my real address was hijacked in early 2008, and I can't fix it.. send me a private message instead or email me directly at my RR address..
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