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  1.    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    Thanks & regards to your Mrs.
    No worries, she would thank you herself but she is going for the high score (already way ahead of my high scores which are well off the top 5!). I would love to know how you go after you do the soft reset, although from the sound of it, you are already getting pretty respectable performance. Make sure you dont actively use any functions after doing it, ideally overnight, then see how it goes.

    I must clarify, while my outgoing calls are infrequent and suggest low activity, my use due to incoming calls, SMSs, pTunes (~1 hour per day on the train) and the various other PDA functions is heavier. I consider myself a moderate user, and at the end of the day, my wife's bejewelled activities really put a dent in my battery graph profile

    Of late, I typically recharge every two days or so, and usually the battery is somewhere between 20-40% at the time I plug it in.
  2. tck
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    I would love to know how you go after you do the soft reset, although from the sound of it, you are already getting pretty respectable performance. Make sure you dont actively use any functions after doing it, ideally overnight, then see how it goes.
    I did the "Battery-out-reset" (DIG's reset? mate), then played with my Treo for about 1 hr, then plugged in the charger & went to bed. This morning, switch off the charger, got 93%, switch on again to get 100% Unplug (98%) & to work.

    Today a lot of out/in calls, total 32min of calls (note : every accepted/made call is a minute in Treo).... and at 6.38pm, it is about 66%

    I consider this very good. I rarely get this performance.

    Thanks
  3.    #103  
    Pleasure - lets know how it goes over the longer term!
  4.    #104  
    So, further to this phone call induced drain phenomenon (looking for a pattern). I received a call today, and at the end, I intentionally let the caller hang up first. I just let the phone go back to standby without pressing the red button. The faster drain (2-3% per hour) happened from this point, for the next 10 hours or so. Again, I was able to stop it simply by calling my treo from my home phone (1 ring without answering), and the drain rate dropped back down to 0.5% per hour.

    This is far from conclusive, but the theory I am testing is that a call that is ended by the other party does not properly disengage the TREO. Strange that another call to the TREO can fix it, but that has worked two out of two times for me now. More testing needed...
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    This is far from conclusive, but the theory I am testing is that a call that is ended by the other party does not properly disengage the TREO.
    Well, you know my results, which also support this theory.
    However, it doesn't happen after every call, I sometimes need some test calls to my Treo to reproduce the problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    Strange that another call to the TREO can fix it
    Why shouldn't it? Even if the phone application forgets to shut something down properly after the caller ends the call, it's can easily be different story if you end the call on the Treo.

    What nags me too, is the randomness of the behaviour. I couldn't trace that down. (I tried it with calling party id on/off, but couldn't find a difference.)

    IF the Treo SOMETIMES drains power after a phone call and another call can fix that, this explains, why there are so many different experiences out there. You only get bitten from the problem, if you happen to leave the Treo alone for a long time after such an abnormal call termination.

    If you receive very few calls, the problem might not arise for days.
    If you use your Treo heavily for phone calls, the problem might heal itself again.

    However, sometimes, after days of normal behaviour and long standby times, when the user thinks everything's all right now, it might strike again. A problematic call in the evening and you wake up with your Treo being empty in the morning... Who knows?
  6.    #106  
    I certainly know your results - I think of this as the 'Glen phenomenon' for want of a better name . However, I am not convinced it is random, and I am testing some ideas about the sequence of events that triggers it. Time will tell.
    When I call my TREO to fix the drain, I dont even touch it. I just hang up from the other phone as soon as the Treo rings. That still seems strange to me.
  7. tck
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    #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    So, further to this phone call induced drain phenomenon (looking for a pattern). I received a call today, and at the end, I intentionally let the caller hang up first. I just let the phone go back to standby without pressing the red button. The faster drain (2-3% per hour) happened from this point, for the next 10 hours or so. Again, I was able to stop it simply by calling my treo from my home phone (1 ring without answering), and the drain rate dropped back down to 0.5% per hour.
    Looks like similar drain issue like the camera. Prior to camera patch, maybe both GSM & Camera were killing the batteries. With the camera patch, problem was only half resolved - no wonder there are still unhappiness with the battery performances.

    Hope Palm is reading & put in some effort to determine if there is any truth in this topic.
  8.    #108  
    Still not 100% sure, but there does seem to be an emerging pattern with the 'Glen phenomenon'. 3/3 times today I was able to trigger the faster drain (for hours at a time) by calling my TREO from my landline, receiving the call on the TREO, and hanging up from the landline, rather than hitting the red button on the TREO. Each time, I was able to restore normal drain rate by simply calling the TREO again, not receiving the call, and just letting it ring once before hanging up. I still think this is a little odd, because it suggests that the remedy is very similar to the cause. My one 'control' was when I called the TREO, received the call, and hung up from the TREO end by hitting the red button. This was the only call that did not trigger the fast drain. This needs to be tested a few more times before I would put money on it, and ideally, it would be good for someone else to test it too.

    Glen - have you tested this particular approach? ie. that the big drain is triggered if the caller hangs up rather than the TREO. Christineac130 also noticed something similar.

    If anyone else has a typically good drain rate (eg. 0.5% per hour), and feels like contributing to an experiment, it would be good if you can try this and see what happens. It is easiest to monitor the drain rate with battery.prc or battery graph software.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    Glen - have you tested this particular approach? ie. that the big drain is triggered if the caller hangs up rather than the TREO.
    Sure, that's currently my most promising way to quickly reproduce the problem.

    However, it doesn't work every time. I usually need two to three such test calls. And I make them in exactly the same way you described.

    On one occasion I made four test calls to another Treo and didn't manage to reproduce the high drain rate with that device (but didn't try further at that time).

    I once though caller identification might make a difference, but couldn't find one...

    At the moment, I'm have no clue, why some calls with the caller hanging up start the problem, while some do not...

    Greetings!
  10. #110  
    Wow, this seems promising! I don't receive or initiate many phone calls from/to the Treo (two or three on average on a typical day), but I'll try to help with the testing.

    One question, though, arises in my (tortured) mind: wouldn't there be a problem with the sound (loudspeaker) of the Treo? Something like, if the call is terminated by the other side, the Treo's loudspeaker would continue to drain the battery, and making it ring would be enough to reset the drain phenomenon...

    Do you guys use the Treo loudspeaker during the phone calls? It might be interesting to see if the same thing happens when using the wired headset (or a bluetooth one, but it seems there are a couple of issues with some bluetooth headsets, which might further complicate the test).

    What leads me to this question is that I remember, during the early days after the 680 release, before Palm came out with the camera patch, there were reports of switching on/off the mute switch affecting the battery life...
  11.    #111  
    Gday Euroclie
    Great if you can help!
    I also remember the mute switch story - it was Redbeard I think. I could never reproduce that one. It was a bit strange - because mute used more power than non-mute if I am thinking of the same one you are. Redbeard ended up having a quirky 680, which he returned and I havent seen much of him since.
    My tests with 'The Glen Phenomenon' (TGP)... have not involved the loudspeaker. Not sure about Glen's tests. Basically, I just answer the call, then hang up (from the land phone), and the TREO goes back to standby mode (or at least that it looks like it does...). One odd thing I remember, and I notice sometimes, is when you press buttons, there is a faint hiss in the loudspeaker at the back. Sometimes this seems louder than others, not sure though.
  12. #112  
    There has to be some kind of auto-disconnect process in the Treo when someone hangs up and you do not follow suit.

    I can verify this very issue many times. I work nights and frequently when the little ones wake up throughout the night the wife calls. I speak to her for a little while and then she hangs up. B/C I am working I frequently just put the phone in the holster w/o 'canceling' the call on my end. After a short bit I begin to notice an increased amount of heat generated by the 680.

    Would be interesting to know what the cause is though. I am certain it has to do with the auto-hangup in the device though.

    One interesting thing to note on this though is the Gibberish that appears at times where the phone should normally say "Cingular." That is also a verified radio/network issue that they are supposedly working out. Hopefully it is either a sister issue or fixed on the same ROM update.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by glen View Post
    Ah, ok, I always started a call from the Treo and hung up again.

    There are some reports mentioning a higher power drain while the Treo is muted. Personally, I could never reproduce this with my Treo (fortunately).

    Let's keep our fingers crossed...
    Yes, I consistently have this problem (now the only battery issue remaining on my unit). While in lenghty meetings with the 680 mute switch on the battery drain is significantly higher than normal. Used to browse on GPRS at night in muted mode and was blaming the GPRS radio but since discovered that the issue was in fact the mute switch. Happens ever time I switch to mute mode on my 680 so now avoid doing this and turn the radio off instead for meetings.
  14. #114  
    I've found that my battery drain is considerably higher on even and odd days of the month.

    Dunc
  15.    #115  
    I apologise to folks like Khaytsus who have already warned about the problems with battery.prc, but I couldnt resist using it to monitor my battery activity. Problem was, by using it to monitor my battery activity, I was significantly increasing my battery drain rate. After a bit of experimentation, I realised that the setting to monitor activity in sleep mode (by checking the box next to 'Poll battery every second when off'), was actually causing my drain rate to increase to ~1% per hour, compared to the normal ~0.5% per hour. Maybe this should be obvious since it is doing something every second.

    I have attached an image showing drain (using batterygraph, which is different from battery.prc). The first (more gentle) slope shows performance with the battery.prc 'poll battery' box unchecked, the second (steeper) slope shows performance with the 'poll battery' box checked.

    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...p-C23FDF9F.jpg

    Anyway, this is just a heads up to those of you who might have installed battery.prc and then forgotten about it. You will be potentially cutting back your battery life by 1/2 if you have it set to monitor performance in sleep mode. It seems to be fine if that box is unchecked however (at least so far).

    An unexpected bonus of the battery.prc software is that it restores some functionality to the green LED. It comes on when the 680 is active in sleep mode, giving you an indication of whether your 680 might be suffering from insomnia. This does not seem to adversely affect the battery performance, because this was always active while the above image was made.
    Last edited by DIG; 04/08/2007 at 10:50 PM.
  16. #116  
    I have been monitoring this thread for a week or so now, and I am quite fascinated. I have been using battery graph for a few days, and your picture posted above tells me that the way it is displaying on my Treo is probably right, but still begs the question of how the percentage and voltage relate to each other. If 3880 mV is 59%, then 100% should be 6576, not 4200. By the same token, if 4200 is 100%, then 59% should be 2478. What don't I know, here? I just looked at my own graph, and the stats are showing 12% and 3700mv.

    I was having the thought that if the % calculation is wrong, then if I popped the battery out when it showed 10% but still showing 3600 mv or so, what would show if I popped the same battery right back in? 3600mv should be 85% (of 4200)? Something tells me I am looking at apples and oranges, but I'm hoping you can set me right... meanwhile, I will test the hang up theory as well!

    How do you measure the .5% - 1% drop per hour statistic, by the way? I am posting my current graph, and I assume the constant on-offs are related to Chatteremail doing the push thing, but I don't really have proof yet.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  17.    #117  
    The percent per hour is simply an approximate calculation based on the drop in charge over time. I usually work it out by determining the change in percentage overnight, while the treo is sleeping. You can see from my battery graph plot, that my 680 drops by about 12.5% per day with the gentle slope (each day is indicated by the verticle light blue line which represents midnight). It is obvious from the graph you provided that your 680 is draining very fast, and there are also 2 phases. The best drain rate for yours appears to be about 5% per hour. If this is without you constantly using your 680, then your battery is draining way too fast (or your battery meter needs to be calibrated). Then again, you did say you were using push email and your 680 seems to be constantly switching on and off - so that might be the problem.

    The percentage shown by the sloping dark blue line is not voltage - it is charge - that is why 50% charge does not mean the voltage is 50%.
    Last edited by DIG; 04/09/2007 at 09:10 AM.
  18. tck
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    #118  
    My colleague recently upgraded his SD card to 120X from normal speed, & he found improved battery life (sorry no hard data). Prior to the upgrade he had unexpected resets, deleting a single call record took 20+ minutes, backup was time consuming etc etc

    This may be a none issue for most of you all.
    Last edited by tck; 04/10/2007 at 04:04 AM.
  19. #119  
    Well, you're probably going to hate this comment. It doesn't go hand in hand with the GSM radio theories so far.

    I lose 1-2% per hour with the GSM radio OFF. This does increase to about 5% per hour with the radio ON, including several minutes of phone calls per hour.

    After 4 hours of overnight plug-in time, I woke with the battery at 94%. (Normally charges to 100%).
  20.    #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by kyeoh View Post
    Well, you're probably going to hate this comment. It doesn't go hand in hand with the GSM radio theories so far.

    I lose 1-2% per hour with the GSM radio OFF. This does increase to about 5% per hour with the radio ON, including several minutes of phone calls per hour.

    After 4 hours of overnight plug-in time, I woke with the battery at 94%. (Normally charges to 100%).
    1-2% per hour sounds high, but it depends on what other activity there is. If that is standby, no activity, with BT and IR off, then you seem to have a different problem. With background drain rates this high, you might not see any impact of GSM related bugs.

    The 94% off the charger is not uncommon, although interesting that yours normally charges to 100%. Do you mean it came off the charger at 94 and it normally comes off at 99?

    - see first post in this thread
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...hlight=DIG%27s
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