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  1.    #41  
    Yes, I am not as certain as Khaytsus that it is so simple. To lose 6% would mean at least 6-12 hours of draining, after reaching 100% charge, for most people (assuming 0.5 -1% drain per hour). That is why I said there is 'some suggestion' that a failure to trickle charge is responsible, I am not yet convinced that this is a definite conclusion.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    .....but the phone was disconnected from the network; so essentially it was only running like a normal PDA. With this in consideration, the level should not drop by 3% to 6% when un-plug.

    Whether using AC or sync to charge, with phone disconnected from network, the level still drops 3% to 6% when unplug.

    p/s : I dont use BT, IR, Email, Data
    It takes about 90 minutes to charge, and it totally stops charging in about 6 from what I've observed from battery Graph. If you plug in the phone basically dead, 6 hours later it'll start discharging again. If it has more juice, this time will be less.

    This is just from my observations. Sometimes I've seen it top the battery off again, sometimes it just consistantly drops as if it's completely unplugged. Yes, if you're not using data, you should only see .5-1% drop/hr. If you haven't done the battery calibration reset yet, you might want to do that.
  3. #43  
    I've seen most of the issues in this thread with battery life. Already installed the camera patch. Next things is to reset the battery. I've sen 2 methods.

    1) Remove battery, plug in charger, reinstall battery

    -or-

    2) Plug in charger, remove battery, remove SIM, wait, reinstall SIM, reinstall battery


    Opinions as to which gives better results?

    Thanks,
    Yokie
  4. #44  
    And should the battery be at 0%, 50% or 100% when doing this reset?

    Yokie
  5.    #45  
    Personally, I am not convinced the 'battery reset' procedure that you have read about is necessary (and I will probably cop some abuse for saying that ). At least I can say it wasnt necessary for my 680, which performs pretty close to specifications - 0.3-0.5% drain per hour on standby which seems to be as good as it gets (except maybe for the guy (Eric 5273) who reported a drain rate of 0.15% per hour...). The only thing I did was to calibrate the battery meter (to train the TREO's 'fuel gauge' to recognise the full charge range as explained in the Battery University website). I think the battery reset trick that you mention is meant to achieve the same thing, but I dont know if it works as well as the way I did it. Others will probably argue that the reset step is necessary, but you can probably try various approaches and see for yourself which seems to work.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    For the second group, testing things like sync cable charging vs AC charging might provide immediate improvement. Obviously where this is a problem, it is not great and requires some kind of fix from Palm, but at least it can be better managed until that occurs.
    I think you might be onto something with the supplied AC charger. I used a NON-OEM charger twice and got more battery life.
    Last experience: Charged battery using OEM charger last Thursday and battery was draining at about 1% per hour normal use. At midnite Saturday drain trippled ( as indicated by battery graph, for no reason) and killed the phone. Had to use a Non-OEM charger to charge the phone. Took the phone of the charger 6:00 am Monday and at this time, 9:00 am Thursday I am still at 46%.
    I have made several calls, including Blue Tooth, hourly e-mail check etc.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Yokie Kuma View Post
    And should the battery be at 0%, 50% or 100% when doing this reset?

    Yokie
    I let the battery drain until the Treo died and couldn't be revived. Then, I plugged it into the charger. I removed the battery and the SIM, waited 15 minutes and replaced the battery and cover. I didn't touch the Treo at all (not even to calibrate the screen or turn the back light off) for six hours.

    I have no idea if it worked. My battery life is really good now, but I did every suggestion on the board to try to fix it. I figure it doesn't hurt to try and one of the fixes worked! Although, I don't know which one...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by MoveOver View Post
    I think you might be onto something with the supplied AC charger. I used a NON-OEM charger twice and got more battery life.
    Last experience: Charged battery using OEM charger last Thursday and battery was draining at about 1% per hour normal use. At midnite Saturday drain trippled ( as indicated by battery graph, for no reason) and killed the phone. Had to use a Non-OEM charger to charge the phone. Took the phone of the charger 6:00 am Monday and at this time, 9:00 am Thursday I am still at 46%.
    I have made several calls, including Blue Tooth, hourly e-mail check etc.
    I am glad that at least another person has identified the supplied AC charger as the cause of erratic battery drains. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, charging my 680 with the sync cable prevents drains from occurring.
  9. #49  
    Something strange last night. For the first time since buying the 680 I removed the sd card to transfer some large files and put it back in. After that my battery usage went from a usual 3-4% overnight (9 hrs) to losing 30%. I reset the 680 all is normal now.

    I'm going to pull the card out and put it back in to test it. Just thought I'd see if others with poor battery life routinely remove their sd cards.
    French Pre3, UK Pre2, US Veer, German gsm Pre, 680, garmin ique 3600 & still have my working palm pilot 1000 with the 1 Mb adapter

    Please remove UberCalendar and google sync behavior patches prior to system updates.
    patch Google calendar sync behavior for 2.x.x and TouchPad (Oauth2 and advanced sync requirements enabled)
    Preference guide for MetaView's UberCalendar patch
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by frantid View Post
    Something strange last night. For the first time since buying the 680 I removed the sd card to transfer some large files and put it back in. After that my battery usage went from a usual 3-4% overnight (9 hrs) to losing 30%. I reset the 680 all is normal now.

    I'm going to pull the card out and put it back in to test it. Just thought I'd see if others with poor battery life routinely remove their sd cards.
    Just a gripe; I don't ever remove my SD card anymore, I'm afraid I'm going to break that little weenie door if I use it too much. I've started installing files mostly via web or Bluetooth OBEX transfer.
  11. #51  
    Lately my 680, with camera patch applied, drains the battery about 3% an hour, even with Chatter running and doing IMAP IDLE for one mailbox (which isn't bad at all)...until I run Causerie, then the battery drains about 10% an hour until I do a soft reset, even after shutting Causerie down completely. I've posted to the Mantra forums to see what they say about it...

    I'm still seeing that issue with the battery sometimes charging to only 92-94%, with several different chargers...just unplugging the charger and plugging it back in for awhile lets it charge to 100%.

    -SC
    "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune
  12. fondoo's Avatar
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    #52  
    i wonder if Palm even reads these threads.....
  13.    #53  
    I suspect they do (hi Palm ) - it would be a good free and unreserved source of feedback for them (just like Seidio). It may be sites like this that prompted the camera patch?
  14. #54  
    One thing I hadn't seen mentioned in the battery discussion for the Treo 680 is how Lion or LiPo (Lithium Ion or Lithium Poly) batteries function. They are very different from NiCads and NiMH batteries. I have learned this from my hobby, RC helicopters and airplanes. Battery function and maintenance is very important in this hobby. A problem with a battery can cost you thousands. NiCad and NiMH batteries have a slow discharge rate even when they are doing nothing. They can be put on a slow trickle charge of about C/10 forever almost and maintain well there. That will keep them charged and ready to use at a moments notice.

    But LiPos or Lion batteries are very different. We learned this the hard way trying to use these technologies in electric RC planes and helis. They provide great power to weight ratios but you have to handle them completely differently from what we had been used to from the beginning of batteries. Most importantly, they charge differently. They don’t have the self-discharge that NiMHs or NiCads have. They hold a charge for a very long time without loosing any of it. But with that comes a change in charging methods. Once they reach their charge capacity, the charger must shut off and not put ANY more charge in. If they are overcharged, they will explode with a very hot fire that is very dangerous. So for the RC hobby, that meant new chargers for Lithium batteries that charged at a specific current and to a specific voltage, then stopped. There are many stories on the RC web sites of guys burning down their shops and homes buy overcharging Lithium batteries. Now most people know not to ever leave a lithium battery on charge without supervision. That’s not necessary for cell phones and such, but for the large Lithium cells we use in RC applications, it is mandatory. We conducted some tests at our field and it was really quite amazing as to how hot these batteries burned when overcharged. When they overcharge, they balloon up, burst, and turn into a torch. It’s really something. Now you can understand why there are strange incidents of people’s cell phones or laptops burning up.

    The manufactures have built special chargers into the phones and notebook computers, etc. that correctly charge the Lithium based batteries that are in use now, and they carefully control the charging characteristics. But this is why the phone can loose power after a full charge, because depending on the charger, it will charge the battery all the way up and then shut off, but a Treo is still running. Whether or not the charger is programmed to come back on when the battery drains again to a certian point, I don’t know. But it definitely does not trickle charge. Maybe a Treo engineer can chime in and let us know.

    Another nice feature of Lithiums over NiCads or NiMHs is that they don’t have a “memory” and therefore don’t need to by “cycled” other than to check capacity. They do require a few good cycles to reach full capacity, but after that, they can be charged up at anytime and don’t need to be run all the way down. As a matter of fact, running a Lithium battery down all the way and completely recharging them actually shortens their life as compared to just topping them off whenever you are close to a charger.

    One bad thing about Lithiums is that they have a definite shelf life regardless of use. A NiCad or NiMH can sit on the shelf almost indefinitely and then be put into service and you’ll get its full life. But a Lithium battery is continually degrading and will eventually be unusable even if it’s never used. As the technology improves, the shelf life grows, but it is still an issue.

    When we first started using Lithiums, there was a current issue as well. The standard Lithiums were around 4 C (4 X Mah rating per hour) discharge current but now they’re up to 25 C and more. Plus, when they first came out, you could only charge them at 1 C or they would be ruined. Now you can fast charge some brands of cells.

    Anyway, that doesn’t really affect our Treos, but it might be of interest. I hope this provides a little more insight into the battery issues and doesn’t stir up any killer bees ;->
    Last edited by gspears; 02/13/2007 at 06:49 PM.
  15.    #55  
    Thanks, very informative. One puzzling thing however, is that as far as I can tell, the drop to less than 99% at the end of charging seems to be unique to the treo 680 (or have people also seen this happen with the treo 650 and/or other units?). Maybe this is just because the 680 loses charge faster than the 650 and therefore it is more noticeable?
  16. #56  
    Well things had been going great with the non-OEM charger, about 5 days on a charge. However charged the phone yesterday evening and suddenly it started to drain at 4% /hour for no reason. At a loss what caused this drain. Looking at battery graph at looks like the drain started actually just before I put it on the charger. The only thing I did was using the phone and had one of those calls where the audio was low, and I pressed the volume button. Maybe pressing the volume button like that causes the phone app to start a high drain. ?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by MoveOver View Post
    Well things had been going great with the non-OEM charger, about 5 days on a charge. However charged the phone yesterday evening and suddenly it started to drain at 4% /hour for no reason. At a loss what caused this drain. Looking at battery graph at looks like the drain started actually just before I put it on the charger. The only thing I did was using the phone and had one of those calls where the audio was low, and I pressed the volume button. Maybe pressing the volume button like that causes the phone app to start a high drain. ?
    So I decided to let the phone do its thing, and low and behold, about 24 hours after this rapid drain started it stoppped and went back to a normal < 1% drain. In 24 hours it drained about 70% and in the past 12 hours 7%.
    Wonder if a certain timer started and it finished at the 24 hour mark?
  18. G_Gagné's Avatar
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    #58  
    I've notice that after you use ptunes, your battery life will go down like crazy !!! Even more, I then charged the treo for the night ... I unplug the thing and it was only at 89 % even if the LED was green...
  19. fondoo's Avatar
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    #59  
    i get 92%, never 99% on a full charge.
  20.    #60  
    Well, after 3 pages of this thread, it doesnt look like there is any simple answer to what else causes the big (irreversible until reset) drain. We have a three suggestions - to sum up: PDAnet, pTunes, using the supplied AC charger rather than the sync cable to charge (I think that is all). Not sure what this tells us other than there may be several/many possible causes. It hasnt happened to me again so i cant work out what might have triggered it, but in my case, I know it is not any of the 3 items listed, I use ptunes and I always use the supplied AC charger, and they dont give me any trouble and I dont use PDAnet. It may simply remain one of the mysteries of the universe...

    In response to the last two posts about the battery not staying at 99% after charging - have a read of some earlier posts in this thread - the 680 seems to charge to 100% and then does not trickle charge, (and one post #54 suggests that this may be by design) so it proceeds to drop back down (probably for hours) before you unplug it. If you dont believe this, try unplugging it as soon as the light goes green. I bet it stays at 99.
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