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  1. #21  
    Today I was in the field, so I proactively disabled Bluetooth and IR. Halfway through the morning I dropped the data connection - because the battery was about 60%. By 1:30 pm the battery was at 5% and I was getting repeated vibrations and screen pops to alert me to the fact that the battery level was critical. By the way, what rocket scientist at Palm (is that their name this week?) decided to energize the vibrator and turn on the screen repeatedly when the battery got low?

    So needless to say I got no where near published specs for battery life, today. But what I find incredulous is that when I returned to the office and put my phone on the charger it was back to 100% charge in a little over an hour. Is it really recharging that fast, or is it not really running as low as it thinks it is - but the OS is forcing the unit off. Perhaps I need to revisit the "battery conditioning" threads!

    Dunc
  2. #22  
    I think there are two problems. One is things like the Camera related drain or possibly PDANet or ther software on individual users 680's.

    The other that is not being taken too seriously in the threads so far but I think is just as real....the 680 battery meter doesnt read the battery well or reports drain and power rates inaccurately.

    The second issue would be universal to everyone. Also, for some (maybe there is a hardware side to this too?) there are differences that are significant with IR and Bluetooth on and off and with SIM or radio operational or not, distance to signal etc. I did not see that issue at all and conditioning the battery did nothing for me.

    FYI (and please dont whine how it shouldnt be necessary) I solved my concerns by investing $20.00 into an extra battery.
  3.    #23  
    I think it is pretty clear that the battery meter is not very accurate when the 680 is issued. Many people have found that a battery meter calibration step (fully drain till the screen wont come back on, then fully recharge) makes a huge difference. This only needs to be done once and then the meter runs down much more slowly, because it now 'knows' where the real 0% is. What seems to be a more contentious issue is whether the battery meter works reliably once that calibration step has been performed. In my case, I think it does. I regularly check this using 'battery graph' and I can see a very straight line showing the 0.5% decline per hour when the unit is on standby, with sharper drops when the unit is being actively used, or BT is on, or whatever, and these revert to the more gentle decline when it goes back to standby (at least it usually does, except for the two instances I referred to at the beginning of this thread - which havent happened again since then). Is there anyone who has observed that the battery meter is unreliable after doing a meter calibration? I think this can only be determined by watching what happens after it gets to zero. If the unit shuts down and can not be switched on again, then zero is probably zero. If the unit can be used for hours or possibly days, then zero wasnt really zero and the meter is obviously off to some extent. Dunc - have you done the meter calibration before? Last thing to mention is that this should not be confused with battery conditioning as has been stated many times before. The meter needs to be calibrated, the battery does not need to be conditioned (which typically requires 2 or 3 discharge/recharge cycles and does not apply to LiIon batteries).
  4. #24  
    Observation,
    I noticed on one of my 680's the est cap. reading using Battery.prc is 1319mah, even though the battery is the the same 1200 mah rated as the other one. I have swapped batteries to confirm the 1319mah .
    The 1319mah battery lasts much longer then the other, which is 1188mah, did I get lucky or did the conditioning create a higher cap battery limit?

    Thanks for your input,

    Tim
  5. jfme's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by time2 View Post
    Observation,
    I noticed on one of my 680's the est cap. reading using Battery.prc is 1319mah, even though the battery is the the same 1200 mah rated as the other one. I have swapped batteries to confirm the 1319mah .
    The 1319mah battery lasts much longer then the other, which is 1188mah, did I get lucky or did the conditioning create a higher cap battery limit?

    Thanks for your input,

    Tim
    I have a feeling this is a matter of luck. My first phone battery was 1188 mah as well. My second phone battery is 1288mah. There must be a tolerance for the charge (i.e. 1200 +/- 10% ???)
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by jfme View Post
    I have a feeling this is a matter of luck. My first phone battery was 1188 mah as well. My second phone battery is 1288mah. There must be a tolerance for the charge (i.e. 1200 +/- 10% ???)
    I agree, I think you might simply have been lucky and scored an extra good battery (at the upper end of the range for that product). I say this because as far as I can tell with my reading about LiIon batteries, they do not improve with 'conditioning'.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidk6235 View Post
    I think there are two problems. One is things like the Camera related drain or possibly PDANet or ther software on individual users 680's...
    I think there's one problem - there is a serious power consumption problem with the 680 and Palm won't step up to the plate and admit it, or better yet fix it.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    I think it is pretty clear that the battery meter is not very accurate when the 680 is issued. Many people have found that a battery meter calibration step (fully drain till the screen wont come back on, then fully recharge) makes a huge difference.
    I can't tell you how many times I have fully drained my 680 - of course not because I was trying to train my Treo, but because I was using it! I really doubt that there is any artificial intelligence in the Treo that will learn battery level / use, but similar to the hot swap SIM while charging thread - whatever makes you feel better.
  9. mslade's Avatar
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    #29  
    A very simple calculation and observation will test then show there still is a power consumption problem after the camera software upgrade!

    With a 1200mah battery and 300 hr capacity in standby mode as per the specification yields 1200mah/300hr = 3ma/hr to get specified lifetime.

    Two battery meter programs are known to me - TreoBattery and BatteryGraph. They give complimentary information. TreoBattery provides a simple graph of recent consumption and charging. BatteryGraph gives longer term curves and the author says it has negligible self consumption.

    With the radio OFF (not standby) I see that I can approach 300 hours (200+hrs).

    In standby - not a chance! There seem to be two factors. One is a Treo problem and the other seems to be a Cingular problem.

    The 680 NEVER gets down to 3ma and stays there in standby as seen by TreoBattery. Oscillates an awful lot but uses way too much average power.

    The Cingular problem is that despite living in a full bars area, the Treo (and another Motorola new phone with Cingular) shows that the network drops out for minutes at a time causing the phones to consume a lot of power trying to reconnect. It isn't just my local tower here in suburban Rochester, NY. I have regularly seen it happen all over the area.

    Need to call home? No signal - either wait or try driving to near another tower. Meanwhile the 680 is sucking up battery power.

    Bottom line is that I can now go for three or four days in standby making none or one or two short calls, but cannot get anywhere near spec of 300 hours (12.5 day).

    Since the reason we have a phone is to use it as needed, people are not going to test capacity from full charge to zero by leaving the phone in standby for almost two weeks.

    But full charge at night, left in standby until morning, can give an hourly use rate that is meaningful.

    Use BatteryGraph. Full charge in the evening. Note in BatteryGraph mah charge. Leave in standby overnight. Get current charge level in the morning. Calculate difference and divide by number of hours left in standby to get hourly rate. Divide 1200 by the hourly rate. Answer will be prediction of number of hours fully charged battery will last.

    Is your answer over 250? Then it is within shooting distance of the spec. Less - your unit isn't working as claimed!

    Note that BT, IR, etc. must be off!
    Last edited by mslade; 02/02/2007 at 09:16 AM. Reason: typo
  10.    #30  
    When I put mine to this test, (have done it several times), I have recorded % battery drain per hour, rather than mah, but the two things should be directly related (shouldn't they?). Actually, I cant find a reading of mah using battery graph?? Anyway, my results are virtually always 0.5% battery per hour or better. The first time I tested it, my 680 drained at approximately 0.25% per hour for nearly a full day. The variability possibly depends on signal strength at the time of testing. So extrapolation from this gets me within range of 300 hours of standby time with phone radio on. Another thread has just been posted "Battery life continues to improve", and the reported results are astounding. Eric5273 seems to be using only 0.15% battery per hour, and his 680 lasted from Sunday till late Thursday, using only 52%, including 1 hour of calls. If this can be extrapolated to zero%, then he would be getting over 600 hours! Even if it wont continue at that amazingly low rate, it is still very impressive.
    Last edited by DIG; 02/02/2007 at 04:26 PM.
  11. #31  
    For my 680, charging it with the AC charger definitely triggers erratic battery drain, whereas charging it with the sync cable solves the problem. For those of you who continue to experience spontaneous battery drain, I encourage you to test whether this is also true for your unit. More info is provided here:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=135961
  12.    #32  
    Thanks. I always use the AC charger (supplied) so I can not see a pattern as the strange drain does not always occur (in fact, it has only occurred 3 times for me since the camera patch). The cause of those drains in my case is very hard to pin down because it is infrequent and I dont know how to induce it (although I am suspicious that it involves auto timesync, but not sure yet). Do you find that the drain can only be stopped by recharging with the sync cable, or soft reset? Anyway, it still looks like there are two groups of people - those who routinely get excellent performance (~0.5%) and those who get OK to poor performance (2% or worse) per hour. For the second group, testing things like sync cable charging vs AC charging might provide immediate improvement. Obviously where this is a problem, it is not great and requires some kind of fix from Palm, but at least it can be better managed until that occurs.
  13. #33  
    Could the GPRS connection be related to drain - when you see the green arrows does that mean the data connection is actively in use. I see the green arrows all the time - even when not transferring data - and at the same time see my battery drain. When I manually close the network connection the battery drain stops.

    So - is Blazer (and other applications that utilize data) disconnecting as it should, or does the program close and leave a (seemingly) active data connection on.
  14. #34  
    No, it does not disconnect. There used to be a menu option for it on the 650 but don't see it on the 680.

    I've found that gprs has little battery usage unless actively used.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    Thanks. I always use the AC charger (supplied) so I can not see a pattern as the strange drain does not always occur (in fact, it has only occurred 3 times for me since the camera patch). The cause of those drains in my case is very hard to pin down because it is infrequent and I dont know how to induce it (although I am suspicious that it involves auto timesync, but not sure yet). Do you find that the drain can only be stopped by recharging with the sync cable, or soft reset?
    DIG, the drain can only be stopped by a soft reset in my case, charging with the sync cable does not stop the drain but rather prevents erratic drains from happening. If I now go back to charge my phone with the supplied AC charger, battery drain almost for sure will occur in a few days.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragon View Post
    DIG, the drain can only be stopped by a soft reset in my case, charging with the sync cable does not stop the drain but rather prevents erratic drains from happening. If I now go back to charge my phone with the supplied AC charger, battery drain almost for sure will occur in a few days.
    Thanks - that is very interesting. I was aware that there were some problems with incompatible chargers, but not that they could cause an irreversible battery drain (which suggests that they activate some function that can not be deactivated, and that that function is not activated by the synch cable). This could be causing problems for others, hopefully others who are not getting 0.5% per hour will test this out.
  17. tck
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    #37  
    Charging via sync cable still does not give me 100% battery level when unplug. However, the drain from the peak is lower : 97% with sync vs 94% to 96% with AC.

    Will see how stable the battery will be the whole of today.
  18.    #38  
    The drain from the peak is a strange thing - assuming you mean where the percentage charge drops as soon as the charger is unplugged. There is some suggestion that this is because the 680 is not trickle charging properly, so the longer it is on the charger after reaching 100, the more it drops back down as it starts using the charge (as if it wasnt on the charger). So, (if you are charging overnight like many do) maybe it took your 680 longer to reach 100% with the sync cable, so it had less time to start running down before you unplug it in the morning, compared to when you charge it on the AC charger and the faster charge rate will mean it reaches 100% sooner and runs down for longer before being unplugged in the morning??

    Strangely, my 680 no longer seems to suffer from this problem (it used to in the early days). Now, it always stays at 99 after being unplugged, but maybe I havent left it on the charger for long enough for it to drop down below that, as it can stay at 99% for several hours after being unplugged anyway.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by tck View Post
    Charging via sync cable still does not give me 100% battery level when unplug. However, the drain from the peak is lower : 97% with sync vs 94% to 96% with AC.

    Will see how stable the battery will be the whole of today.
    You sleep too long.. It's really, really, really simple. The charger STOPS when it gets to 100%, and the Treo discharges from that point as if it's unplugged.
  20. tck
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    #40  
    .....but the phone was disconnected from the network; so essentially it was only running like a normal PDA. With this in consideration, the level should not drop by 3% to 6% when un-plug.

    Whether using AC or sync to charge, with phone disconnected from network, the level still drops 3% to 6% when unplug.

    p/s : I dont use BT, IR, Email, Data
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