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  1.    #1  
    Hi everybody,
    I read the thread "FAT32 for 650 Works" relating to the
    FAT32.PRC file from Shadowmite which is actually
    Fat32 v548 and 58128 Bytes in Size.
    On replacing the FATFS.PRC with this file in the v1.20 Rom
    the Treo 650 seems to work properly.
    That means the Treo recognizes SD cards formatted with
    the fat32 filesystem on a Windows PC. The Treo650 itself
    also correctly formats now using the fat32 filesystem.

    BUT:
    The deletion of files does not work correctly on fat32
    formatted memory cards because a delete operation
    locks up the system for several minutes while the same
    operation returns immediately if the memorycard is
    formatted with fat16.

    You can simply test this with the filez application.
    1. format the memory card on treo or windows pc with fat32.
    2. copy a file to the memcard with filez.
    3. delete the file with filez (it looks like a crash but the operation returns after some time)

    Then do the 2nd test like this:
    1. format the same memory card on a windows PC with fat16
    2. copy a file to the memcard with filez.
    3. delete the file again with filez (it returns immediately).

    As you can see, the fat32 does not work correctly on Treo650...

    I tested this with a 2 GB Transcend MMC and a 32MB Sandisk SD Card.
    Last edited by mik30; 01/19/2007 at 05:07 AM.
  2. #2  
    Hey, fat32 works great with my 650 using a 4GB card and you need that to access SD cards greater than 2GB. It works. Period.

    For 2GB card and below, format it using fat16, not fat32. It has been discussed on other threads that 2GB & below cards formatted with fat32 is slower due to the different file management it deploys. But using fat32 in the treo to read fat16 cards is actually faster. The main advantage is that and also for 4GB cards. I don't think I have anything to complain about that.
    Dark Lord of the Sith...
    Fear is My Ally...

    http://www.ppcsg.com
    http://www.spug.net
  3. #3  
    mik30 needs to perform a little more research before he tells an entire forum when something does or does not work.

    Had he read the thread discussing the different allocation unit sizes (try format /?) he would have read that FAT32 works splendidly when using the non-default sector sizes.

    :EDIT: Actually, I'll go one step further and do the research for you. Read this:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=123259
    Treo 300 (x2), 600 (x3), 650 (x6), 700p (ROM'd to 755p)
    My Custom Black-Tie 700p
    Sprint, 750 AT, Unl N/W @ 7pm, Unl Roaming/Power Vision/Pix/Txt/M2M, $46/mo.
    Lost Your Treo 300/600/650/680/700/750 CD? Download them here.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by theleetbeagle View Post
    mik30 needs to perform a little more research before he tells an entire forum when something does or does not work.

    Had he read the thread discussing the different allocation unit sizes (try format /?) he would have read that FAT32 works splendidly when using the non-default sector sizes.

    :EDIT: Actually, I'll go one step further and do the research for you. Read this:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=123259
    Well, if you read my message precisely you would have noticed that
    the problem I described with the lock down on delete operations do
    occour as well if the memory card is formatted on the Treo itself.
    The Treo Cardmanager does NOT allow you to set anything, neither
    the format type nor the blocksize. It simply uses it´s own fat32
    settings which result in the bogged down delete speed.
    Besides the filez apllication you can test this with the delete operation
    of the launcher application as well.

    Besides that: The lock up the Treo for about 15 Minutes on deletion of
    a single file of 50KB in size has to be called at least an incompatibillity
    because the fat32.prc is not made for the treo650 OS, otherwise I
    would call it a bug.
    Last edited by mik30; 01/19/2007 at 08:28 AM.
  5. #5  
    As I have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddeath View Post
    Hey, fat32 works great with my 650 using a 4GB card and you need that to access SD cards greater than 2GB. It works. Period.

    For 2GB card and below, format it using fat16, not fat32. It has been discussed on other threads that 2GB & below cards formatted with fat32 is slower due to the different file management it deploys. But using fat32 in the treo to read fat16 cards is actually faster. The main advantage is that and also for 4GB cards. I don't think I have anything to complain about that.
    Just stick to fat16 format using the PC for 2GB and below. If you tend to format your SD on your 650 all the time, then something is wrong.

    The fat32 gives you 4GB and now also 8GB SDHC capability (read the forums). I'm seriously NOT gonna complain about that and harped on the 2GB problem which can be solved simply by formating it with fat16.
    Dark Lord of the Sith...
    Fear is My Ally...

    http://www.ppcsg.com
    http://www.spug.net
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ddeath View Post
    Hey, fat32 works great with my 650 using a 4GB card and you need that to access SD cards greater than 2GB. It works. Period.

    For 2GB card and below, format it using fat16, not fat32. It has been discussed on other threads that 2GB & below cards formatted with fat32 is slower due to the different file management it deploys. But using fat32 in the treo to read fat16 cards is actually faster. The main advantage is that and also for 4GB cards. I don't think I have anything to complain about that.
    1. The Treo650 Card application does not allow you to set any settings on
    formatting the memory cards on your own. With the fat32.prc it uses fat32
    regardless of the size of the memory card.

    2. A memory card does not "deploy" anything especially not a filesystem.
    The filesystem is deployed by the treo and it is just stored on the memory
    card. So if the Treo hardware is capable of physically accessing the
    memory on the SD Card any problem that arises is caused by the
    software.
    3. Since the Treo hardware is capable of accessing my
    memory cards correctly at full speed with the FATFS.PRC as well as
    with the FAT32.PRC on fat16, the lock down on using the fat32 filesystem
    during delete operations is without doubt an incompatibillity of shadowmite´s
    fat32.prc software and nothing else.

    You should be so frank to name that clearly.
    Last edited by mik30; 01/19/2007 at 08:18 AM.
  7. #7  
    The fat32.prc file was extracted from other palm pda, not an official release and not something created by shadowmite. He just gave us an option to be able to use cards above 2GB. You install it with romtool or SD card method, which is also not an official release. You used it with methods described in the forums, not an official release. Of course it may not work properly since it is, not an official release. Fast or slow, we know the problems and we always look for the best ways to resolve and use it (e.g fat16 format for 2GB and below), that's what the forums are for, to enhance our aging 650. Works great for most of us (especially me with a 4GB card with 2++GB of songs and few hundred megs of pics), maybe not for you I supposed. As I have already said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ddeath View Post
    Just stick to fat16 format using the PC for 2GB and below. If you tend to format your SD on your 650 all the time, then something is wrong.

    The fat32 gives you 4GB and now also 8GB SDHC capability (read the forums). I'm seriously NOT gonna complain about that and harped on the 2GB problem which can be solved simply by formating it with fat16.
    Nuff said. Bye.
    Dark Lord of the Sith...
    Fear is My Ally...

    http://www.ppcsg.com
    http://www.spug.net
  8. #8  
    Yeah, w/o turning this into a flame war, the description and intent of the original poster was to claim that FAT32 does not work [acceptably/as advertised/whatever] on the Treo 650.

    We have here a whole forum of users that says it works just peachy.

    As the Death said, it is not a standard or official procedure to get it to work, thus it may not be a standard procedure to format the card (ie, in the Treo itself). But... so what? Most (all?) people pull the card out to transfer data, so most (all?) ppl that run 4 GB or larger cards format the card in Windows.
    Treo 300 (x2), 600 (x3), 650 (x6), 700p (ROM'd to 755p)
    My Custom Black-Tie 700p
    Sprint, 750 AT, Unl N/W @ 7pm, Unl Roaming/Power Vision/Pix/Txt/M2M, $46/mo.
    Lost Your Treo 300/600/650/680/700/750 CD? Download them here.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by theleetbeagle View Post
    We have here a whole forum of users that says it works just peachy.
    You should read your own statements in the other thread you
    already recalled above. There you indeed paralleled the speed of your
    memory card with that of an uphill moving rock on using the fat32.prc.
    Nice to see how shortsighted you are...

    BTW:
    I am talking about deleting a single file of the size of 60Kb. That should be
    done lightning-fast, independantly of the clustersize or the fattype. Especially on a memory device like a SD-Card.

    The fat32.prc locks up the whole treo for several minutes!

    I guess you do not know much about FAT filesystems.

    So you can not remember that the basic difference in the FAT sub types,
    and the reason for the names, is the size, in bits, of the entries in the actual
    FAT structure on the medium. There are 12 bits in a FAT12 FAT entry, 16
    bits in a FAT16 FAT entry and 32 bits in a FAT32 FAT entry.
    The deletion of a file in FAT filesystems is simply done by writing a zero into
    the first byte of the directory entry... that is all.
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 01/19/2007 at 11:03 AM. Reason: removed swearing
  10. #10  
    Alright. <snip>Do you think the thousands of users that have done the fat32.prc mod sit there patiently and pleasantly as it takes eons to delete all their 60kb files? No, we have followed the directions...

    We have selected a non-default allocation block size and have been rewarded with lightning-fast speeds.

    I can delete files instantly, too.

    If u don't wanna do the upgrade, fine. Stick with fat16 and suffer your 2 GB card limit. Or, do it right and see that fat32.prc DOES work properly.

    Sheesh.
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 01/19/2007 at 01:37 PM. Reason: namecalling
    Treo 300 (x2), 600 (x3), 650 (x6), 700p (ROM'd to 755p)
    My Custom Black-Tie 700p
    Sprint, 750 AT, Unl N/W @ 7pm, Unl Roaming/Power Vision/Pix/Txt/M2M, $46/mo.
    Lost Your Treo 300/600/650/680/700/750 CD? Download them here.
  11. #11  
    It is rapidly becoming clear that your device probably has some sort of software conflict on it (or defective hardware, but that seems unlikely).

    Before any more posting on this subject, may I suggest you try a hard reset with a custom ROM where the ONLY change is FATFS to FAT32 and see if that works? This seems reasonable as you seem to be having problems that others are not.
  12. #12  
    Rather than pouncing on the guy why did you not just tell him flat out how it works? nobody told me but i guess thats my fault for not searching thru thowsands of threads to find out i need to do a quick format.

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