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  1. noc
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       #1  
    Bits 'n Bolts sent out a mass email campaign today indiscriminately to v. 1 and v. 2 users of Backup Man. The email indicates that a "maintenance upgrade" was now available and free for v. 2 users. The problem is that most users are not actually aware of what version they are running and secondly, they emailed this offer to users of v. 1

    Therefore, an implied offer of the free upgrade has been transmitted to all users. When I queried Bit 'n Bolts, they informed me that if you're a v. 1 user, you need a paid upgrade to v. 2 first to receive the "free" upgrade. This is a false and misleading advertisement transmitted via email to all registered users of Backup Man. Quite frankly, if they had just offered to honor their offer regardless of version, I would not be taking this action. However, the rude and customer unfriendly response I received leaves me no choice. If anyone else running v. 1 would like to join this class suit, please message me here on TreoCentral. We will seek the free upgrade to v. 2.2 along with punitive damages.
  2. #2  
    Are you saying that you can't get the version number via either the app's 'About' menu item or the Palm Applications' 'Info' menu item? Odd.
  3. #3  
    noc, I'm was a 2.1 user and upgraded without any problem (downloaded the prc and now I'm showing v2.2 registered in the About screen). I agree that BitsnBolts is pretty rude in general (very unhelpful with regards to notorious reset after backup problem) but in this case I don't see a problem.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by noc View Post
    Bits 'n Bolts sent out a mass email campaign today indiscriminately to v. 1 and v. 2 users of Backup Man. The email indicates that a "maintenance upgrade" was now available and free for v. 2 users. The problem is that most users are not actually aware of what version they are running and secondly, they emailed this offer to users of v. 1

    Therefore, an implied offer of the free upgrade has been transmitted to all users. When I queried Bit 'n Bolts, they informed me that if you're a v. 1 user, you need a paid upgrade to v. 2 first to receive the "free" upgrade. This is a false and misleading advertisement transmitted via email to all registered users of Backup Man. Quite frankly, if they had just offered to honor their offer regardless of version, I would not be taking this action. However, the rude and customer unfriendly response I received leaves me no choice. If anyone else running v. 1 would like to join this class suit, please message me here on TreoCentral. We will seek the free upgrade to v. 2.2 along with punitive damages.
    This person is extremely mixed up.

    A mass mailing announcing BackupMan v2.2 was sent out to customers of BackupMan v2. Only customers of BackupMan v2 received the mass mailing. Registered users of BackupMan v1 will be receiving a different email sometime within the next 72 hours.

    In addition to his BackupMan v1 license, “noc” does in fact own a BackupMan v2 license which he purchased from our website on 2006-05-06. That's why he received the upgrade notification.

    He received a rude response (I admit, I was rude) from me because his email to us was:

    Quote Originally Posted by noc
    Hey, sorry there. If you knew I was running version 1, why did you send me the email telling me it was only a "maintenence upgrade" and that it was free? I didn't know what version I had. I downloaded and now you're telling me I'm stuck and have to buy a new version? Maybe I should contact the Federal Trade Commission instead and enlighten them as to your sales tactics. Your move.
    Threatening is never the way to open negotiations.

    The email was only sent to people who bought version 2, so how would I know that he bought it and wasn't using it? While we try our best, we are in fact, not psychic. He bought it, that's all we know. We have no clue what he's using. There was no intent of sales tactics in that email. We were notifying paid users of a new version that contained important bug fixes and new features.

    In the readme.txt file that is included in the BackupMan archive, it states:
    Quote Originally Posted by readme.txt
    Remove any 1.x versions of BackupMan prior to installation of 2.x. In addition, if you are upgrading from BackupMan v1.x please see the special information in Release_Notes.html.
    In Release_Notes.html, also included with the archive it states:
    Quote Originally Posted by Release_Notes.html
    Important Information for users of BackupMan v1.x

    * Delete any previous installations of BackupMan on your device prior to installing v2. We strongly suggest using the built-in application launcher's delete facility.
    * Backup sets created with v1.x are NOT compatible with BackupMan v2.x.
    * BackupMan 2.x requires a new license and a new registration code.
    o As with all of our products, you can evaluate BackupMan v2 for a limited time simply by installing it to your handheld. There are no crippled or disabled features.
    o BackupMan v2 licenses can be purchased directly from our website, or from any of our retailers.
    o The last version of BackupMan 1.x was v1.55. If you wish to continue using 1.x, you can download this last version from our website here.
    Nowhere, have we ever tried to hide anything from anybody. It is our intent to be as far as possible with all of our customers regarding upgrades.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker View Post
    I agree that BitsnBolts is pretty rude in general
    I am occasionally rude. Sometimes without warrant. For that I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by acousticbiker View Post
    (very unhelpful with regards to notorious reset after backup problem)
    The response you should have gotten for this issue is
    Quote Originally Posted by reset
    This issue can be caused by any program that patches the handheld, some examples are Butler, TextPlus, ClipPro, pToolSet, MegaLauncher, and Fonts4OS5. Removal of those (or any similar) programs and the problem will go away.

    For a detailed explanation of why this happens, visit our website at http://www.bitsnbolts.com/memshuffle.php.

    Please note that the programs themselves are most likely not at fault, they are simply exposing a defect in the Palm NVFS system. Many of the developers of this type of program have already released updates that work around the problem.
    We can't really be more helpful regarding the problem because it's caused by reading large amounts of memory from the device when other programs have failed to "lock" themselves in memory. It's simply beyond the scope of the service we offer to keep lists of these programs, and which versions do and do not properly lock themselves on various NVFS devices (each device is slightly different). Believe me, I wish I had a magic bullet that would fix this issue forever, but I don't.

    There are various hacks and 3rd party solutions that can help the issue in some circumstances, but even they are not perfect solutions. Also, the nature of testing required for our many of our corporate clients requires that our code be certifiably clean, and such hacks are not permitted.
  6. #6  
    How about we nominate Noc for vexatious litigant of the year?
  7. #7  
    Mike, I have been a registered user of BackupMan for a few years. It is a great program; however, it lacks in one big area and that is, it does not restore the device to the previous state if Java is installed - it does not restore Java (nor Launch-Anywhere).

    Please consider supporting the restoration of Java - it is the only reason I switched to Resco Backup.

    Ben
  8. #8  
    noc could use some nuts n bolts
    Treoing & Loving it
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_w View Post
    I am occasionally rude. Sometimes without warrant. For that I apologize.



    The response you should have gotten for this issue is


    We can't really be more helpful regarding the problem because it's caused by reading large amounts of memory from the device when other programs have failed to "lock" themselves in memory. It's simply beyond the scope of the service we offer to keep lists of these programs, and which versions do and do not properly lock themselves on various NVFS devices (each device is slightly different). Believe me, I wish I had a magic bullet that would fix this issue forever, but I don't.

    There are various hacks and 3rd party solutions that can help the issue in some circumstances, but even they are not perfect solutions. Also, the nature of testing required for our many of our corporate clients requires that our code be certifiably clean, and such hacks are not permitted.
    Mike, thanks for addressing these questions. Fortunately, I think many 3rd party hacks have fixed the issue that was causing soft resets at the end of BUM operations.

    By the way, what is new in the 2.2 update? I couldn't find documentation on the website.

    I agree with you that noc was off-base in his claims and was not tactful in his initial communication.
  10. #10  
    A class action law suit for program that costs how much?

    Vexatious litigant. English translation=ambulanc chaser.

    No wonder the legal profession is held in such high regard.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by noc View Post
    [. . .] However, the rude and customer unfriendly response I received leaves me no choice. If anyone else running v. 1 would like to join this class suit, please message me here on TreoCentral. We will seek the free upgrade to v. 2.2 along with punitive damages.
    You have GOT to be kidding. You have plenty of "choice".

    Bad day?
    UniPalmer
    -------------
    It's not the heat; it's the stupidity!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by phillydog View Post
    How about we nominate Noc for vexatious litigant of the year?


    Hmmm, where's noc? Noc? You there? Hellooo?
  13. #13  
    I have been a BackupMan user since my Treo 300 days. I upgraded to v2 and now to 2.2. I have emailed for support and always received a response and never considered any to be "rude" or unprofessional.
  14. #14  
    I too have used BUM for years now, and am very happily satisfied with it's operation. Thanks BnB for the good software, and like was stated above; the only thing it doesn't seem to restore is the java app. But it's ok, as I just don't use java apps any longer.
    Christo

    "it's not the quantity, but the quality"

    There are NO Limits
  15. crawfpm's Avatar
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    #15  
    Add me to the list of VERY happy users of Backupman. I have beta tested for Mike since the Handera 330 days (maybe even TRGPro). He has always been helpful and produces very useful software and assistance. Class Action Lawsuit...whatever.
  16. #16  
    Noc, noc

    Who's There?

    vexatious litigant
    ---------------------------------------------------
    You want to file a class action suit against a software company - might as well go for the big one, Microsoft. But to go after a $14.95 product....it's simple - don't buy it or ask for your money back. If you can't get it back then contact your credit card company......this is one reason why I use American Express......they've got more lawyers then I do.


    I'm still trying to figure out what "punitive" damages......can I sue noc for punitive damages for posting this dribble? How were you planning on proving that punitive damages should be applied and to what amount? How were you harmed in this action.....the worst that I see is maybe you could call the email a spam but since you are a user then that doesn't apply. If you don't want to buy the upgrade - hey here's a thought - don't.

    I've never used Backupman but have heard nothing but good things about it.

    So, MikeW - if you need a character witness to testify on your behalf, I'm your Moose!

    BTW - this is so serious of a Class Action issue that someone should alert Fox News so that no possible litigate or benefactor will miss out. I'm thinking that noc works for a competing product?
    Last edited by RSGMOOSE; 01/19/2007 at 12:08 PM.
    Moose Man
    Welcome my son, welcome to the machine.
    iPhone 3G, Treo 750, 680, 650, 600 and T5, T3, T, M515, M505, Vx, V, Prizm, Visor, IIIc, IIIe, Palm Pilot Professional, Palm Pilot (ok boys and girls a whopping 128k of memory - those were the days) and former Palm Beta tester.
  17. #17  
    Exactly where on their web site do I get the update?

    I have v2.1 but didn't get the email.

    Do I just download the zip and it will pick up on my reg code when I install it?

    Or is there a special link provided in the email notification?

    TIA
    iPhone 4S
    Former Treo & Storm Owner
    Cigar Lover
  18. #18  
    I have v1.55 and received no email, so OP is just off base

    I've used an auto-reset after backups early in the a.m. to ensure no unwanted crashes (which I was previously getting) and the 1.55 works great (enough that I haven't felt the need to necessarily upgrade at this time).

    I haven't found Mike to be rude when I've had requests in the past....
    --Steve

    Visor-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 800W-->Palm Pre-->HP Touchpad

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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by RSGMOOSE View Post
    BTW - this is so serious of a Class Action issue that someone should alert Fox News so that no possible litigate or benefactor will miss out. I'm thinking that noc works for a competing product?
    I started to chime in here, but Moose, you more than covered anything I could have added!

    I was just going to say something like, "don't know what you're running (version), and don't know what you're saying; what do you know?"
    Lord, who will we go to? You have the words of eternal life. Jn 6:68 <><
    PDA "trail" > Sharp Wizard OZ-750 > Palm M100 > Visor Deluxe > Visor Prism > Sony T665C > Sony NX80V > Sony TH55(2) > Palm Treo 700p
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_w View Post



    The response you should have gotten for this issue is

    This issue can be caused by any program that patches the handheld, some examples are Butler, TextPlus, ClipPro, pToolSet, MegaLauncher, and Fonts4OS5. Removal of those (or any similar) programs and the problem will go away
    Hi Mike,

    Perhaps you could remove Butler from that stock answer. Butler has been locking itself in place like a good app since feb 2005.

    Thanks.
    Hobbyist Software
    VLC Remote - Control VLC from your Pre
    Remote - Control iTunes from your Pre
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