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  1. zeze22's Avatar
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       #1  
    EDIT: I think I over-emphasized the negative when I started this post. My point is that for me and my colleagues, the 700p is stable and not sluggish with any 3d party software I have ever used. I have always thought that this forum has been unfair to the device

    As a concession, I postulated that the more intrusive heavy-utility apps might be the problwm, which are the only kind I don't use or feel the need to use.


    I disagree that MOST 3d Party apps cause stability/lag problems on the 700p. We have several 700p's at my business, and we all load them with the regular host of 3d party apps. I, for one, currently use and have installed simulatenously:

    Agendus Pro 11.xx or DateBk 6xx (switch for variety) plus iconsets
    Uninstall
    Resco Explorer
    BikeorDie
    Dreamway
    Ereader with many, many books
    DocstoGo 8.xx
    IconMgr
    Kinoma 4EX
    PTunes 4
    MOcean
    OnDemand
    4GB SD card loaded with books and music


    I have used the above or some variety of it on three separate 700ps (replaced for defective, lost or broken).

    I have never had any signifcant lag, stability issues at all in nearly a year with the 700p.

    I can only guess that more INTRUSIVE 3d party apps that get into the bowels of the 700p are the problem. Ironically, these are the apps people use to try to stabilize or speed up their 700p. The Butlers, ZLaunchers (totally unnecssary), Doctors and other such utilities must be the culprits.

    Without these intrusive utility apps, which I believe are unnecessary, the 700p is as steady as a Swiss clock. My thoughts.
    Last edited by zeze22; 01/05/2007 at 07:23 PM. Reason: CORRECTION
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by zeze22 View Post
    I disagree that MOST 3d Party apps cause stability/lag problems on the 700p. We have several 700p's at my business, and we all load them with the regular host of 3d party apps. I, for one, currently use and have installed simulatenously:

    Agendus Pro 11.xx or DateBk 6xx (switch for variety) plus iconsets
    Uninstall
    Resco Explorer
    BikeorDie
    Dreamway
    Ereader with many, many books
    DocstoGo 8.xx
    IconMgr
    Kinoma 4EX
    PTunes 4
    MOcean
    OnDemand
    4GB SD card loaded with books and music


    I have used the above or some variety of it on three separate 700ps (replaced for defective, lost or broken).

    I have never had any signifcant lag, stability issues at all in nearly a year with the 700p.

    I can only guess that more INTRUSIVE 3d party apps that get into the bowels of the 700p are the problem. Ironically, these are the apps people use to try to stabilize or speed up their 700p. The Butlers, ZLaunchers (totally unnecssary), Doctors and other such utilities must be the culprits.

    Without these intrusive utility apps, which I believe are unnecessary, the 700p is as steady as a Swiss clock. My thoughts.
    Hmm. Agendus is not intrusive? Let's see, it can mute your alarms during meetings, it can use it's own alarm handling, it can remap the hardbuttons... I'm not knocking it, I've had Agendus/Action Names since almost the begining of time....

    Also whether the 'other' apps you use are unnecessary can be easily disputed by those who think they are. I've run my 700p with or without Zlauncher with no noticable difference....
    PIII,PIIIx,V,Vx,M505,M515,TT,T3,650,700p=>>iPhone
    There's more to life than technology....but not a whole lot more
  3. Leke's Avatar
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    #3  
    Stop blaming the apps, there are so many apps out there used for functions not built in the the device itself. Palm needs to take responsibility and admit there is an issue and they need to conform to allow the apps to run properly on the device.

    If I wanted just a cell phone I would have gotten that, but I wanted a converged device that would enable me to utlize it to the fullest with the many palm appz out there....
  4. zeze22's Avatar
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       #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohmster View Post
    Hmm. Agendus is not intrusive? Let's see, it can mute your alarms during meetings, it can use it's own alarm handling, it can remap the hardbuttons... I'm not knocking it, I've had Agendus/Action Names since almost the begining of time....

    Also whether the 'other' apps you use are unnecessary can be easily disputed by those who think they are. I've run my 700p with or without Zlauncher with no noticable difference....
    I'm talking about programs that affect how the OS activates/runs all the other installed apps and almost become an enhancement/replacement for the system itself. Agendus is like another PIM- it runs through Datebook, Contacts, etc.

    In any event, it's been fine for me.

    As for the other post, I'm exactly NOT blaming the apps; I'm blaming these massive utility programs. Again, the point of my post was that my 700p has always worked perfectly with all those apps installed.
  5. #5  
    I've only had mine about a month, but I've had no problems with lags or delays....my list includes:

    Launcher x
    Font Smoother
    Google Maps
    HanDBase 3
    Ptunes 4
    KsDatebook
    Palm PDF
    PdaNet
    Resco Backup
    Crash
    Graffiti Anywhere
    DA
    Bejeweled
    and I run Versamail and Activesync multiple times a day.

    I think I've had one or two soft resets since I got the machine, and those were my fault. It seems pretty stable to me.....
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I think I've had one or two soft resets since I got the machine, and those were my fault. It seems pretty stable to me.....
    It has never been an issue of stability for me. Just BT pairing (if you toggle BT) and the lag....
    PIII,PIIIx,V,Vx,M505,M515,TT,T3,650,700p=>>iPhone
    There's more to life than technology....but not a whole lot more
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by zeze22 View Post
    I'm talking about programs that affect how the OS activates/runs all the other installed apps and almost become an enhancement/replacement for the system itself. Agendus is like another PIM- it runs through Datebook, Contacts, etc...

    As for the other post, I'm exactly NOT blaming the apps; I'm blaming these massive utility programs.
    I won't belabor this but how do you think Agendus handles muting during meetings, or overrides the default alerts or remaps the buttons on your device?

    Slightly OT: Also Agendus loads all the PIM databases at once (as far as I can tell by the way the Today view works). This is the primary reason that my wife's 700p is so slow on launch of Agendus. She has 5 years worth of calendar and literally 1000+ tasks. If you launch the individual Palm PIM programs, there is no noticeable lag, launch Agendus; take a coffee break. But, she appreciates the benifits of the program and thereby tolerates the slowness. Agendus to me is a massive PIM program that does/can change how the OS interacts with other programs.

    Either way, I'm glad you are happy with the 700p. I am too, mostly. I have resolved my BT issues by buying a new Headset and leaving BT on all the time. Not ideal, but done. Now I just need for the thing to be as snappy as my 650 was. That shouldn't be asking for much.....
    PIII,PIIIx,V,Vx,M505,M515,TT,T3,650,700p=>>iPhone
    There's more to life than technology....but not a whole lot more
  8. wbwjr's Avatar
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    #8  
    I had to get rid of Butler. Too many resets.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by zeze22 View Post
    Without these intrusive utility apps, which I believe are unnecessary, the 700p is as steady as a Swiss clock. My thoughts.
    I think it's obvious that you, or I, or anyone knows why 700ps get sluggish. What you posted above is not representative of what many other people are seeing on their 700ps. Mine would get sluggish just by being on for 3 or 4 hours, even after a hard reset. My current belief is that it's got something to do with Versamail (which, as you know, is included in the ROM).

    Ironically, installing Butler actually seems have fixed the issue and I am now running a host of apps at an acceptable speed, including Launcher X - I strongly disagree with your statement that such launchers are "totally unnecessary", maybe for you they are but I think there's plenty of evidence that Palm's aging launcher offers nothing but the bare basics.

    People claiming that it's apps that make the 700p problematic and then proceed to present their own lists of what they think are "good" apps are compeltely missing the point on various counts, primarily the fact that the only reason Palm makes sense as a platform is the third party software, and that Palm itself doesn't even make enough software to do without third parties, or else they wouldn't include third party apps as a built-in part of their devices.

    The real fix is for Palm to create a stable, robust platform before it's too late. In the meantime, we have to rely on third party developers to make up for Palm's lack of competence, as is now usual.
  10. #10  
    Essentially you're saying one of two things: either you're cursed and I'm not, or there are differences in the devices that are shipped. The only difference, one would assume, between your device that lags and mine that doesn't, is third party software. I use Versamail to push my Exchange email every 15 minutes; doesn't seem to bother my device. Whether or not Palm has worked effectively to develop a stable platform isn't really the question here; the question is why are some people having problems and others aren't. One real possibility is that there are problems with the processors and they are not behaving consistently (i.e. there are differences in the devices as shipped). Of course, if I start having lags and crashes tomorrow without changing anything I"ll change my mind......but not so far.
  11. #11  
    My fix was deleting all the Toysoft apps I've had on my 700p. Once I got them off, everything is working faster & no re-sets. The only app I do have that has a small lag is ZLauncher, other than that I'm running most of the apps you all are running.
    "A man who drinks only water, has something to hide to his fellow man."

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  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    Essentially you're saying one of two things: either you're cursed and I'm not, or there are differences in the devices that are shipped.
    Going by empirical evidence, I'd say it's a combination of different (lucky) devices and Palm's lack of robust performance on these devices. It's happened with every Treo launch since the 600, where people would experience wildly different levels of quality or issues with the same exact phones and apps.
    In my current case, for example, a coworker's 700p refuses to work with his BT headset. Mine does with the same headset (although it will still disconnect thanks to the BT disconnect bug). Mine gets sluggish just by being on more than a few minutes, and his never does even though he runs essentially the same software.

    More importantly, a software app made a huge positive difference in my particular phone's performance - Butler. Some people have horribly negative experiences with it and get incessant resets. I think this a sign of inconsistent devices.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi View Post
    People claiming that it's apps that make the 700p problematic and then proceed to present their own lists of what they think are "good" apps are compeltely missing the point on various counts, primarily the fact that the only reason Palm makes sense as a platform is the third party software, and that Palm itself doesn't even make enough software to do without third parties, or else they wouldn't include third party apps as a built-in part of their devices.

    The real fix is for Palm to create a stable, robust platform before it's too late.
    Well said.
    PIII,PIIIx,V,Vx,M505,M515,TT,T3,650,700p=>>iPhone
    There's more to life than technology....but not a whole lot more
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi View Post
    Going by empirical evidence, I'd say it's a combination of different (lucky) devices and Palm's lack of robust performance on these devices. It's happened with every Treo launch since the 600, where people would experience wildly different levels of quality or issues with the same exact phones and apps.
    In my current case, for example, a coworker's 700p refuses to work with his BT headset. Mine does with the same headset (although it will still disconnect thanks to the BT disconnect bug). Mine gets sluggish just by being on more than a few minutes, and his never does even though he runs essentially the same software.

    More importantly, a software app made a huge positive difference in my particular phone's performance - Butler. Some people have horribly negative experiences with it and get incessant resets. I think this a sign of inconsistent devices.
    I'm a newbie to this device, but given that comment, I have a few questions:
    Are all devices made in the same country? In the same factory? Have there been changes in the processor supplier? Has the chance of a problematic device decreased over time? Increased? Has the Versamail software changed? Let's be scientific about this; it's not voodoo....if some devices work and others don't, there IS a reason. I'm not talking about the Bluetooth mess; that affects everyone, but in the comments about lag and other problems that occur even after a hard reset with nothing added.....
  15. zeze22's Avatar
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       #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi View Post
    I think it's obvious that you, or I, or anyone knows why 700ps get sluggish. What you posted above is not representative of what many other people are seeing on their 700ps. Mine would get sluggish just by being on for 3 or 4 hours, even after a hard reset. My current belief is that it's got something to do with Versamail (which, as you know, is included in the ROM).

    Ironically, installing Butler actually seems have fixed the issue and I am now running a host of apps at an acceptable speed, including Launcher X - I strongly disagree with your statement that such launchers are "totally unnecessary", maybe for you they are but I think there's plenty of evidence that Palm's aging launcher offers nothing but the bare basics.

    People claiming that it's apps that make the 700p problematic and then proceed to present their own lists of what they think are "good" apps are compeltely missing the point on various counts, primarily the fact that the only reason Palm makes sense as a platform is the third party software, and that Palm itself doesn't even make enough software to do without third parties, or else they wouldn't include third party apps as a built-in part of their devices.

    The real fix is for Palm to create a stable, robust platform before it's too late. In the meantime, we have to rely on third party developers to make up for Palm's lack of competence, as is now usual.
    I think I over-emphasized the negative when I started this post. My point is that for me and my colleagues, the 700p is stable and not sluggish with any 3d party software I have ever used. I have always thought that this forum has been unfair to the device

    As a concession, I postulated that the more intrusive heavy-utility apps might be the problwm, which are the only kind I don't use or feel the need to use.
  16. zeze22's Avatar
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       #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I'm a newbie to this device, but given that comment, I have a few questions:
    Are all devices made in the same country? In the same factory? Have there been changes in the processor supplier? Has the chance of a problematic device decreased over time? Increased? Has the Versamail software changed? Let's be scientific about this; it's not voodoo....if some devices work and others don't, there IS a reason. I'm not talking about the Bluetooth mess; that affects everyone, but in the comments about lag and other problems that occur even after a hard reset with nothing added.....
    I have used Versamail from my first 700p when they first came out to the current one, and have never had any problems.
  17. nsanders's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by davidra View Post
    I've only had mine about a month, but I've had no problems with lags or delays....my list includes:

    Launcher x
    Font Smoother
    Google Maps
    HanDBase 3
    Ptunes 4
    KsDatebook
    Palm PDF
    PdaNet
    Resco Backup
    Crash
    Graffiti Anywhere
    DA
    Bejeweled
    and I run Versamail and Activesync multiple times a day.

    I think I've had one or two soft resets since I got the machine, and those were my fault. It seems pretty stable to me.....
    So, you run KsDatebook with no problems? I have been reading that it isn't necessarily compatible with the 700p.
    Nicky
  18. #18  
    I know this is an old thread. But, I think that the Palm OS does not do a good job keeping applications from messing up hardware and/or other applications. Two applications could be tweeking hardware registers at the same time and cause problems. Also two applications can mess each other up. Also old applications could be messing with Treo 600 hardware in a Treo 700p, which could obviously cause problems. These problems could not be solved with anything short of a completely new OS, hardware and maybe even completely new software, that would build in these protections in the architecture. I would guess the complexity and difficulty in making this a transparent change is why PALM OS 6.x failed. Perhaps the new linux based OS from Access could be a good start on fixing this, if it ever comes out.

    People frequently talk stable applications and applications that bring instability, applications that really muck with the internals and ones that dont. I think that applications need to be tested and fixed for each new hardware version (600 vs 650 vs 700p etc...). So an old release of Butler running on the 700p might be unstable, but if the vendor has a new release for the 700p it could be just fine. Some really old applications that don't interact much with the hardware, could work just fine on any Treo/Palm. Others need to specifically be upgraded for the device and do a good job fixing the problems (some vendors are just better than others).

    So, my advice, when you upgrade to a 700p, try to get the latest versions of all software you want to run. If the software doesn't work or creates instability get rid of it. When I replaced my Kyocera 7135 with a 700p, I was able to upgrade some apps, run some apps as is, and had to get rid of some apps (and find alternatives if they were available). It's a pain, but because of the limitations of the OS, it's necessary. My opinion is that a large portion of the people who have recurring perpetual problems don't do this kind of update/clean up of their software. They also could introduce problems by hotsyncing all files from their 650 directly to their 700p. I am also sure that some problems are caused by hardware, but not as many as people think. The people who have replaced their 700p 4 times and always have the same problems, are probably not experiencing hardware problems.

    -Stew
  19. #19  
    Yes, I've been running KSDatebook for a while. I recently started using 2day "over" it, but have the calendar button bring up one view of KS Datebook....the month view (only wish the text was a tiny bit bigger). I have had no problem running it on the 700P.
  20. jc-Treo's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by nsanders View Post
    So, you run KsDatebook with no problems? I have been reading that it isn't necessarily compatible with the 700p.
    No problems on either mine or my wife's 700p. Also using KsDatebook with MakeSpot.
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