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  1.    #1  
    There is a serious problem with the Treo 680 Keyguard.

    This Treo 680 Keyguard sequencing issue also has serious negative effects and consequences on the operation of many programs, utilities and/or extensions that utilize keyguards. I have tested many of them including Butler, Disable Buttons, KeepOff, TreoGuard, TreoMax and some others.

    Important calendar alarms and alerts are accidently being silenced and missed when the Treo 680 is carried in a pocket or purse or in a slipcase or pouch case.

    These missed calendar alarms and alerts are due to the 680 Keyguard process being improperly sequenced.

    You must look at the Keyguard sequence on the Treo 600 and compare it side by side to the Treo 680 to see what is actually happening...

    Working Keyguard sequence on a Treo 600
    1. The calendar alarm fires.
    2. The alarm begins to sound.
    3. The screen wakes up with the keyguard dialog already displayed asking the user to "Press Center button to unlock".
    4. All other keys are locked out and only Pressing the Center button unlocks the keyguard and only the keyguard dialog is dismissed when the center button is pressed.
    5. The alarm is still blaring away normally at this point with the Alert screen still waiting for user to select OK or SNOOZE or GO TO to deal with the calendar alarm.
    This above Keyguard sequencing on the Treo 600 works because until the center button is pressed, all other keys are locked out. Is this not the actual purpose of the keyguard? This keyguard sequencing protects the user from accidently having other keys silence the alarms and alerts etc., particularly when in a pocket or purse or slipcase.


    Faulty Keyguard sequence on a Treo 680
    1. The calendar alarm fires.
    2. The alarm begins to sound.
    3. The screen wakes up without displaying the keyguard dialog with only the Alert screen options OK, SNOOZE and GO TO displayed (no keyguard displayed at this point!)
    4. It is important to note here that all the keys on the keyboard are still not locked out and any one of the keys will now pop-up the Keyguard dialog.
    5. Any key pressed anywhere on the keyboard (including anything being pressed on in a pocket or purse or by a slipcase or pouch case) pops-up the keyguard but since that same keypress also is not yet locked out, it simultaniously gets transmitted to the underlying calendar alarm and silences the alarm or alert potentially also causing missed appointments and committments.
  2. dpc
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    #2  
    I've noticed that my calendar alarm doesn't do the standard 3-rings, but I thought it was because I had missed a setting.
  3. #3  
    I've had this problem with missed calls.
    If I throw a stick, will you go away?
  4. #4  
    definately agree. my wifes 680 has been switching on and off (lighting up) with keyguard (which flattens battery) and NOT displaying alarms.

    note: when I uninstalled Butler it stopped.
  5. #5  
    I have another keyguard problem:
    Since I received a case for my treo 680, I now have no need for keyguard.
    However, when I disable it in preferences, I find a while later it has enabled itself again. I initially thought it was related to BugMe message alarms I set, but it appears to be a random event.
    Anyone else experience it?
  6. #6  
    I believe the 650 behaves the same way, but as soon as the calendar is acknowledged it displays the keyguard.. But you're concerned with the alarm itself.

    It begs the question, however... Why is your case SO tight it is always pressing a button? I personally love my silicone skin in combo with my horizontal case. Slightly protected in hand, but mostly a very rubbery positive contact grip. When I handle my wifes naked Treo I feel like it's gonna pop out of my hands like wet soap!

    BTW, the horizontal case took a little stretching and maintenance for the first month or so (every so often I had to stretch it again) but after that it's good. The phone fits snug, so I put it in place and lightly wiggle it down the last quarter of the way into the holster.

    EDIT: Heh, forgot to mention.. I never catch it pressing buttons.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    ...<snip>

    It begs the question, however... Why is your case SO tight it is always pressing a button?

    <snip>...
    Hi khaytsus:

    Good point... and I've spent time "forming" the case so it doesn't press on any keys, but it's still an issue for anyone who doesn't use a case but still carries their Treo 680 either in their pocket or purse or briefcase etc... as the Treo 680 keyguard does not protect against accidental keypresses of any kind after it wakes up, as the first keypress actually gets merrily passed through the keyguard and on to the underlying waiting call or alarm/alert event before the keyguard actually kicks in!

    The Treo 680 should wake up, when an alarm/alert event is occuring with keyguard in place, and should rock solidly trap any and all inputs until the keyguard is dismissed. It does not.

    The keypress (center button on the native keyguard) that dismisses the keyguard should not be passed onto the underlying alarm/alert either as it is now, as that "pass along" keypress silences the alarm/alert also even it you have been lucky enough to not have had an inadvertent keypress to this point.

    The inadvertent/accidental keypresses that occur when removing the Treo 680 from your pocket or purse or it's case AND/OR the purposeful keypress to dismiss the keyguard needs to be trapped and disposed of, leaving the alarm/alert blaring away as it should until the alarm/alert event or call is handled/dealt with by the user.

    So, to make a short story long..., if you use a Treo 680 and carry it in your pocket or purse or briefcase "naked" or in a slipcase and you are relying on the native keyguard to protect the Treo 680 from accidently silencing an alarm/alert event or an incoming call, be aware it does not work and because of this fault, you could easily miss reminders, appointments and calls.
  8. #8  
    Is there a work around for this issue? This is extremely annoying, to say the least. It has, on more than one occasion, caused me to be late for both business and personal events. I've never had that happen with my 600 or my 650. This is ridiculous; the original reason for my purchase of a PDA was so that I could be reminded of important information. This issue is defeating that.
    .
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Big_OTR_Fan View Post
    There is a serious problem with the Treo 680 Keyguard.

    This Treo 680 Keyguard sequencing issue also has serious negative effects and consequences on the operation of many programs, utilities and/or extensions that utilize keyguards. I have tested many of them including Butler, Disable Buttons, KeepOff, TreoGuard, TreoMax and some others.

    Important calendar alarms and alerts are accidently being silenced and missed when the Treo 680 is carried in a pocket or purse or in a slipcase or pouch case.
    It works this same way on the 650. The 650 being my first Treo, I can only speculate on why it was changed. My guess is that it was changed because people were complaining that when an alarm sounds, they can't quickly acknowledge it if they have to go through the keyguard first.

    I've never had a problem with this on my 650, and I have not (yet?) had a problem with it on my 680.
  10. #10  
    i don't have this problem either. I keep my Treo 680 in my pocket without a case and I believe because the center button is slightly countersunk, it would be difficult to press that button from just the phone being in my pocket. But when alarms ring, I pull the Treo out of my pocket, look at the screen and dismiss or snooze the alarms without a hitch, every time.
    Rob
    8GB iPhone
  11. #11  
    I tried to look into this as I never had any problem. Set an appointment to test the alarm, hit the power button (to turn off screen) and when the alarm goes, the keyguard is there at the same time. Unless I misunderstood this discussion, I think mine does not have this issue.
    Last edited by Crudeman; 01/19/2007 at 10:28 AM.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crudeman View Post
    I tried to look into this as I never had any problem. Set an appointment to test the alarm, hit the power button (to turn off screen) and when the alarm goes, the keyguard is there at the same time. Unless I misunderstood this discussion, I think mine does not have this issue.
    Hi Crudeman:

    The problem with 680 isn't really that the keyguard displays right away or not, it's that the keyguard does not trap the first keypress and therefore silences the alarm inadvertently.

    If you wouldn't mind doing your test again, with an extra step and some observations...

    1. Set up your calender alarm again and turn you screen off or let it time out if you have it set for less than 5 minute time-out.

    2. Let the alarm go off.

    NOW THE IMPORTANT STEP
    3. With the alarm sounding and whether the keyguard is displayed or not, press any key... try the spacebar for example.

    If the alarm is suddenly silenced, then you are experiencing the same problem as I am.

    The problem with mine is that the alarms get silenced because the keyguard is letting the first keypress through, untrapped and from my past experience with the 600 and other keyguards, their purpose is to trap all keypresses.



    I appreciate your help Crudeman and hope you're not experiencing my problem (alarms allowed to be silenced through keyguard), but if you are it helps my case and if not I'd like to see what's different between your 680 and mine.
  13. #13  
    FWIW, I tried as per the steps.

    If I use a longer alarm sound you are absolutely right. Im using the standard alarm Tone which is no more than 2 seconds.

    I would guess if its not loud enough one would miss it and with a key press it will turn the sound off. As for me its not very crucial as the notification will still be there.
  14. #14  
    Has anyone figured out a solution to this? I plan to call Palm Tech Support later today for this. It silences my alarms in the morning...If my phone is lying the keyboard down, then it just rings for a second and then silences it... and then I am late to work.. :|

    The problem is the first key press is not handled by the keyguard. Is there a replacement keyguard available? Maybe that will fix it.
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  15. #15  
    I think they have it sequenced this way so that you can wakeup the phone by pressing on the application buttons and have it open in your desired application. Personally I find this very useful. I have also never had your problem with the alarm.

    It's interesting that one person's problem is not that to another. It shows the problem of developing products that, in the end, will not be all things to all people. Perhaps there is a program that will be able to work around this or perhaps they will come up with a way to allow you to choose how the keyguard works. Here's to hoping....
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatny View Post
    I think they have it sequenced this way so that you can wakeup the phone by pressing on the application buttons and have it open in your desired application. Personally I find this very useful. I have also never had your problem with the alarm.
    Even that is a problem for me, although not that great. There are a few applications that I use, don't save their states, when going to another application. Guess what happens when I hit one of the hard buttons when the treo is sleeping. It gets out of that application and I lose what ever I was doing in that application.

    I can live with that. But I cant live with the faulty keyguard.
    -----------------
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  17. #17  
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  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by kunjan View Post
    Has anyone figured out a solution to this? I plan to call Palm Tech Support later today for this. It silences my alarms in the morning...If my phone is lying the keyboard down, then it just rings for a second and then silences it... and then I am late to work.. :|

    The problem is the first key press is not handled by the keyguard. Is there a replacement keyguard available? Maybe that will fix it.
    Hey kunjan;

    I just realized that mobileALARM (Bob's Alarm) will also fail if the 680 is face down. In my case it fails when face down only if in its slipcase.

    I missed a couple of alarms recently and an hour after realizing the alarm hadn't sounded, I picked up the 680 to check it out and as soon as I picked it up, it started to vibrate and sound the alarm. I can duplicate this condition every time. Bob thinks there must be something pressing a key or on the screen or on the Treo case itself, not the slipcase...

    I would guess that maybe the keyguard is again the problem?


    By the way, I talked with Palm Canada Friday and the first line tech there thought it was just a problem with my 680... However, since I purchased it from Palm USA, he suggested I call them since he would only be able to replace mine with a refurb.

    Palm USA said that they recognized that the keyguard is a problem with all 680's and she brought up the silencing of the ring signal problem also.

    She also said, that even though they recognize the keyguard issue as a problem, that becauses it was released that way it is considered a "normal behaviour" of the Treo 680... but to watch their support website as the Engineers are working on it. (Is that like "The cheque is in the mail..." )

    I tried to get some kind of release date from her after explaining I cannot depend on the 680 and would like to know if I should get rid of it or just be a bit more patient... she wouldn't/couldn't even say if it would be a month or 10 months...
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    #19  
    Megaclock 2.2 alarms also do not work. I had set one up and when I picked the treo up and looked at it the screen did show it went off but i did not hear any alarm....so far alarms are pretty elusive ( i have ditched 2 alarm apps). could this also be the reason why there seems to be more missed calls on the treo???????

    I hope to arrive at some dependable alarm soon....as the other poster said what's the point of having a pda with no alarms????????

    My gut feel about this is that there is a problem/issue with alarms !!!!! As it shouldn't be that difficult to enable an alarm.
  20. adambike's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by adambike View Post
    Megaclock 2.2 alarms also do not work. I had set one up and when I picked the treo up and looked at it the screen did show it went off but i did not hear any alarm....so far alarms are pretty elusive ( i have ditched 2 alarm apps). could this also be the reason why there seems to be more missed calls on the treo???????

    I hope to arrive at some dependable alarm soon....as the other poster said what's the point of having a pda with no alarms????????

    My gut feel about this is that there is a problem/issue with alarms !!!!! As it shouldn't be that difficult to enable an alarm.
    Megaclock worked this morning. I think if i don't touch or hold the treo i'll get to hear the alarm. somehow when i touched it i must have pressed a button or something that gets through the keyguard as mentioned in the first poster. Need to investigate further....
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