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  1.    #1  
    Hi everyone.

    A lot of people are experiencing lag with the 700p when switching through applications. This issue has been belabored numerous times on multiple threads and websites.

    This lag issue has been a great turn-off to me and to a lot of other people looking to “upgrade” to a 700p. One of the reasons I have always stuck with palm is because they feel much snappier than Windows mobile devices.

    I understand that the 700 might still feel “faster than most devices on the market,” but my concern is not with other devices. It’s with the supposedly faster Treo 650.

    I’ve done some contemplating and I’ve come to the conclusion that I will upgrade as long as this lag people speak of while switching applications only affects -switching applications.

    What about the actual programs themselves? Are they affected by this lag?

    How does the 700p really stand up to the 650 in terms of processing power?

    Do processor hungry programs such as TCPMP and LJP handle the same?

    Thanks for any input
  2. #2  
    I had a 650 with Sprint the second week they were out. Had it for two years. It was an excellent device (after the January 2006 firmware was released). Compared to the 700p, the 650 "feels" faster. There is a definite lag when switching apps. There is also a longer delay when using ZLauncher to run apps off of the card. I expect this is also related to how the 700p handles its memory.

    I think the lag that we experience could definitely be reduced once Palm fixes their memory management software and adapts it to the 700p's "shared" platform. Hopefully it is not a long term problem.

    What the 700p has going for it are two things. First is more memory. Not a lot. But more. It's more flexible to do the things you need to do, and run the apps you need to run.

    The second thing it has going for it is EvDO. If you're not going to fork out the money for the faster data network access, then don't buy the 700p. Stick with the 650. If data is your thing, then upgrade.... now! Data is so much faster and more reliable. My 650 used to get major pauses and had very high latency. When using the 700p in tethered mode, I actually get good speeds and low enough latency to use interactive shell programs over ssh (secure shell), in addition to checking mail and doing web stuff.

    Except for the major annoyances (Verizon SMS confirmation hangups, app switching lag, potential bluetooth issues (I haven't used my BT headset enough yet to know)) the 700p can be an excellent device. Right now we just have to deal with Palm's/carriers slowness in getting us fixes for KNOWN problems.

    -Chris
  3. #3  
    Agreed. The lag is annoying compared to the 650 (you'd cry comparing it to the 600!), but the increase in internal memory is a necessity to me, with EVDO a secondary reason to upgrade. I only notice the lag when switching apps, as it seems to be related to the way Palm chose to manage memory (apparently related to designing the hardware around WinMob instead of PalmOS).

    Given a choice between 30-60 seconds of lag when starting up Blazer (700p) and not enough memory to use the programs I need (650)- I'll put up with the lag.

    ...But it's a choice that many are not pleased to make on a $619.00 + tax device. Palm has once again stuck us as beta testers - it often feels like Charlie Brown playing football with Lucy when buying devices from Palm... And apparently Palm has now officially stated they aren't able to fix the lag (see "the letter" thread).
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  4. #4  
    First let me state that I am far from a power user, however I do expect a great deal from things when I purchase them. Second, I expect things to work.

    I've had my 700p for a couple of months now. I've gone through a sedio crystal case. I find it to be OK, however I am hard on phones and soon the plastic case broke. The Phone is still working great. I bought a rubber skin for it and that seems to work better for me.

    On the 'lag'. The only lag I experience is in the phone app when trying to disconnect. It sometimes takes 2 touches of the 'disconnect' button on the screen to hang up the phone. If I happen to touch it more then 2 times, it'll store the touches and throw me off into calling someone else or my voicemail.. Thats my only real gripe.

    I do not use the phone for email. I use it mainly for txting, ssh (when I need to), VNC, OBDgauge (for use with my cars), google earth, and a few other apps that I find handy. Switching between apps doesnt seem to be much of an issue for me. I don't seem to be waiting abnormal amounts of time between them. My Buddy turned me onto the Treo's this past summer when I got to play with his 650. Maybe because I am not a power user I dont see the lag.

    I also dont try to do more then one thing at a time with my 700p. ie: no streaming while surfing or running other apps.

    So far I've found the Treo to be a solid phone. I'm impressed with what it can do, and what I use it for. Maybe I was lucky or maybe I dont know any better
  5. #5  
    The lags can stink, but they have been pretty infrequent for me. Again, the additional memory and the EVDO are winners here. I've moved up from the 600 to 650 to 700P and this is by far the most *useful* overall. I've loaded tons more apps than I ever did with the 650 and web access is truly useful, not just a toy.
    --Steve

    Visor-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 800W-->Palm Pre-->HP Touchpad

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  6. #6  
    I've got the lag too, quite noticeable compared to my old 600. The EVDO is a big plus, though - I get great web browsing speeds on my Mac PowerBook with the 700p tethered. Also, the increased screen resolution is excellent - Google Maps for Mobile is a fantastic app, but I can't imagine using it on the 600, which has (I think) 1/4 of the screen pixels.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Given a choice between 30-60 seconds of lag when starting up Blazer (700p) and not enough memory to use the programs I need (650)- I'll put up with the lag.

    30-60 seconds? Is that real (have you actually timed it, rather than estimating.)? My lag for Blazer isn't more than about 15 seconds, 20 at the very worst. How big is your Blazer Cache? Treo's seem to write the cache to NAND memory when exiting Blazer, and then re-read it when starting Blazer. The bigger your cache, the longer the delay.

    Other than that, I find the delays tolerable, as long as I don't try to use Versamail. Ever. Even opening versamail once creates some temp files that seem to drag down everything the 700P does. Delete these files, and it speeds up again. There a thread here someone about this issue, and I've found it to be true.

    The only significant lag I've found within an application is in SnapperMail--opening the first email in any session is slow. Subsequent emails are no problem.

    On the flip side of the lag issue, the extra memory means I no longer have any apps running off the memory card, so I no longer have the long lags incurred waiting for those apps to be loaded into RAM. That's a pretty fair trade-off against the short lags moving between apps now. And EVDO makes a huge difference in how long it takes to download my mail. Again, that's a pretty good trade-off against the lag in opening the first message. Viewing web pages or listening to streaming XM really shows the benefits of EVDO, and I now miss calls only rarely because I've got an active data connection, also thanks to EVDO.

    Overall, the 700p is a definite improvement over the 650, even if a couple of things are worse.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  8. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    30-60 seconds? Is that real (have you actually timed it, rather than estimating.)? My lag for Blazer isn't more than about 15 seconds, 20 at the very worst. ....
    He is not the only one.....Jeff Gibson said his 700p took around 60 seconds to load Blazer. What I can't figure out is why some units are behaving this way, and others are not. My 700p takes 3 seconds of white screen before Blazer starts to load. It takes 3 seconds whether or not I previously cleared my cache before exiting Blazer, it takes 3 seconds whether my PBench scores are in the 500s or in the 800s (after a hard reset), it takes 3 seconds regardless of whether I start with a particular home page, a blank page, or the last page viewed.

    Of course, I am NOT talking about redraw time when I start with the last page viewed option, which can take up to 20 seconds to redraw depending on the size and complexity of the last page viewed. I wonder if we all talking about the same thing: the amount of white screen time to load, i.e., before Blazer comes on the screen and begins to fetch or redraw a page.

    Meyerweb, you may be surprised with someone else's 60 second load times, but I'm shaking my head at YOUR 15 second load times......if we are talking about the same kind of load time.
    Last edited by dcpmark; 12/20/2006 at 02:47 PM.
  9. #9  
    Everyone keeps forgetting that the 650 was worse than the 700p IS now when the 650 first came out.
    Comparing the problems of the 700p now to the same problems of the 650 when it launched, the 700p is far better.
    Also for those saying that the 650 is snappier, it took almost 2 years of firmware updates to get the 650 snappier and there hasn't even been one yet for the 700p, so that analogy is misguided.

    I had one of the initial 650's back in December of '04, and what a crash-test dummy it was. My 650 would be sitting on my desk and just crash and reboot with no input from me. Remember the introduction of NVFS and memory problems (Palm had to hand out free 128MB SD cards to appease us), horrid voice quality, no DUN out-the-box (thanks ShadowMite), lag when switching apps, blazer crashing......the list goes on and on.

    Fast foward to now and the 700p, and the only problem I have is just the lag and PTunes skipping.
    Considering how frustrated I was with the 650 before its first firmware update, my 700p hasn't given me a tenth of such hair-pulling.

    The 650 and 700p afformentioned are with Sprint.
    .....Life is But Such Sweet Sorrow.....
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by dcpmark View Post
    My 700p takes 3 seconds of white screen before Blazer starts to load. It takes 3 seconds whether or not I previously cleared my cache before exiting Blazer, it takes 3 seconds whether my PBench scores are in the 500s or in the 800s (after a hard reset), it takes 3 seconds regardless of whether I start with a particular home page, a blank page, or the last page viewed.
    As does mine.

    The only time I have experienced the 30-60 second lags and crashes in Blazer were with On Demand installed. After removing On Demand, the Treo went back to ~2 to 3 seconds to load Blazer (just Blazer, not the web page too).

    Other programs do not load as fast as their older counterparts did on older Palms, but still load in under ~1/4 to 1/3 second on my 700p.

    The only intolerable slow downs/lags I have experienced were related to On Demand and Versa Mail. After deleting all files associated with them using FileZ, the "speed," if one can call it that, came back.

    If you are experiencing lag issues, try removing all traces of these two programs and soft resetting the Treo (maybe even removing the battery for 10+ seconds - it's definitely a bit different than a normal soft reset). It may well help you avoid the intolerable lag until a ROM update is available.
  11. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by tedtan View Post
    The only intolerable slow downs/lags I have experienced were related to On Demand and Versa Mail.
    Makes sense......I have Verizon, so neither are on my 700p.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by dcpmark View Post

    Meyerweb, you may be surprised with someone else's 60 second load times, but I'm shaking my head at YOUR 15 second load times......if we are talking about the same kind of load time.
    I should have been more clear. 15 to 20 seconds is the worst I've ever experienced, and now that I think about it that may have involved redrawing a page. My typical times aren't that long, but do seem to related to the size of my cache. Just now, with a 1.2 MB cache (limit set to 2MB), it took 4 seconds to open the bookmarks page.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #13  
    Yes, that seems normal to me. But some people are reporting up 60 seconds of white screen, which is definitely not normal.
  14. richpjr's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Neonrt3 View Post
    On the 'lag'. The only lag I experience is in the phone app when trying to disconnect. It sometimes takes 2 touches of the 'disconnect' button on the screen to hang up the phone. If I happen to touch it more then 2 times, it'll store the touches and throw me off into calling someone else or my voicemail.. Thats my only real gripe.
    This bug alone has me seriously looking at a new phone. I can't tell you the number of times I have accidently speed dialed when trying to hang up. It drives me up the freaking wall.

    I also experience random lags where whatever application I am on just hangs for 10 seconds or so. Eventually, it comes back to life.

    I dumped a Q to pick up a 700p based on the rave reviews I read about it. Color me underwhelmed.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    Everyone keeps forgetting that the 650 was worse than the 700p IS now when the 650 first came out.
    Not everyone. I bought 3 650's when they first came out, and shipped them back a couple days later after discovering the internal memory was hopelessly less than the 600 I was trying to "upgrade" from. I was one of the "lucky" purchasers of an initial bad run of 700p's, but after getting it replaced it's been pretty reliable, but laggy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    Also for those saying that the 650 is snappier, it took almost 2 years of firmware updates to get the 650 snappier
    The 650 came out in Nov '04 and in May or June of '05 Sprint (our carrier) released the 1.12 firmware that basically made the device usable. I'm sure it felt like 2 years, but that's about 6 months. (Or about half the manufacturer warranty if you bought it when it came out).
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb View Post
    I should have been more clear. 15 to 20 seconds is the worst I've ever experienced, and now that I think about it that may have involved redrawing a page. My typical times aren't that long, but do seem to related to the size of my cache. Just now, with a 1.2 MB cache (limit set to 2MB), it took 4 seconds to open the bookmarks page.
    My load times (I refer to the time from tapping on Blazer to the point I can use the bookmarks) vary from a few moments to (what seems like) nearly a minute. I clear cache on exit. I think it's related to how much DBcache is freed up when you load a program - if there's little free, then you wait while the memory manager begins making room and loading it up. Likely the more things you routinely use, the more the memory manager needs to work to make room.

    But I really have no technical clue about this stuff - I just know it lags. At least it rarely locks and resets, which is far more annoying.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Not everyone. I bought 3 650's when they first came out, and shipped them back a couple days later after discovering the internal memory was hopelessly less than the 600 I was trying to "upgrade" from. I was one of the "lucky" purchasers of an initial bad run of 700p's, but after getting it replaced it's been pretty reliable, but laggy.



    The 650 came out in Nov '04 and in May or June of '05 Sprint (our carrier) released the 1.12 firmware that basically made the device usable. I'm sure it felt like 2 years, but that's about 6 months. (Or about half the manufacturer warranty if you bought it when it came out).

    The 1.12 update did not fix everything.
  18. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    My load times (I refer to the time from tapping on Blazer to the point I can use the bookmarks) vary from a few moments to (what seems like) nearly a minute. I clear cache on exit. I think it's related to how much DBcache is freed up when you load a program - if there's little free, then you wait while the memory manager begins making room and loading it up. Likely the more things you routinely use, the more the memory manager needs to work to make room.
    When you say use the bookmarks, are you referring to the time it takes to load the Bookmarks page if you select start with Bookmarks, or are you talking about the time before the last viewed page redraws and you use Menu to get to your bookmarks? If it's the first one, it should not take you more than a few seconds to load the first Bookmarks screen. If you have Blazer set to load the last viewed page, either change it to start with Bookmarks or just click the red X in the left corner as it begins to redraw the page, then you should be able to immediately access your bookmarks via the Menu.

    You may be right about the DBCache, but if you use NVBackup to do your nightly auto backups, it can be set to soft reset your Treo automatically after every backup. I've never had a DBCache problem myself.
    Last edited by dcpmark; 12/22/2006 at 09:47 AM. Reason: grammer!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Merovingian View Post
    The 1.12 update did not fix everything.
    Which update are you talking about that was released after two years and fixed everything on the 650? Two years was only last month and I don\'t remember anything being released in November that was significant.
  20. #20  
    I have a 700p for six months. I really liked it except for the lag and bluetooth problems. I loved the EVDO and Verizon coverage. I finally gave up on the irritation and moved on. Also my lags were not due to Versamail, you can get it lots of other ways, it's an inherent problem in the phone (as Palm acknowledges in their letter reply on the Treocentral front page). I know people who have never loaded Versamail and still see the same lag.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
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