View Poll Results: Did you find this Tracking thread helpful from a consumer standpoint?

Voters
159. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    141 88.68%
  • No

    18 11.32%
Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 5101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 349
  1. efudd's Avatar
    Posts
    697 Posts
    Global Posts
    728 Global Posts
    #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    One of my letter's themes was Palm's lack of beta testing. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Beta testing would have without a doubt prevented this whole installation fiasco from happening en masse.

    They could have limited to inhouse employees. Didn't Sprint & Palm each have at least 20 employees that could have tested the MR on their personal 700p's? I think that a mere 20-40 people their heavily used Treos using the various methods would've caught this problem in a heartbeat. I can only guess that testing was limited to a lab environment.
    I'd personally go further and say that it would be prudent to public beta it beyond the 20-40 employees.

    It's not like they couldn't find 500 people here in 20 seconds that would be willing to beta test for them.

    First they could test across a much bigger swatch of possibilities but also people pissed that it's taking so long can take a shot at being guinea pigs and put up with some bugs to get something sooner.

    for the apps at least they dont even need to be flashing rom's they could just give people the apps to put in ram to test.
  2. #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by theecigarman View Post
    VZW doesn't even know about a pending MR. The rep I spoke to last week in a vzw store hadn't even heard off it. But then again he was a "Q" user. I decided to switch to a "dumb" phone (samsung u740) since no one could give me any answers on the MR and I haven't touched my 700p for 6 days now. Part of that is the "young love" factor, but really, I don't miss the resets, I can still do my calander and contacts on a full qwerty keyboard and bluetooth works without issue. I have taken this new dumb phone as my MR.

    Bob-C, thanks for all you have done, I wish it would have worked for me.......
    I don't know about the rest of you guys, but somehow I don't see Verizon allowing the release of this MR after what happened to Sprint. This sounds like way to much of a headache for a 1 year old device from their standpoint (since it is almost a given that they would lose money on it). In fact given what happened to Sprint I'm not sure they'd re-release it either (I'm pretty sure Sprint is the reason Palm pulled the update so quickly and not any sense of duty or responsibility that Palm may have felt towards doing right by their customers).

    I applied the ROM to my device and it did improve it a lot IMO (I didn't have that many problems to begin with compared to some here) so yes my 700p is very good now and I'm pretty happy with it, however, if Palm wants to be taken seriously they really need to improve their process for dealing with these situations in the future. I would never feel comfortable seriously recommending the Treo over Blackberry's for any serious business venture.

    My guess is that at this point it is more likely that one of the hardcore Palm tweakers/developers on this forum will take the existing updater and repackage and improve it for those having issues with their Treos than Palm re-releasing it officially though carriers. I can't see any carrier reapproving an update that can possibly destroy 25% of the hardware out there while they pick up the bill on the replacement devices. I wouldn't be surprised if it later turns out that this whole fiasco did some major damage to Palm's credibility and standing with the carriers and that they have an uphill battle in the future getting their devices out without having to bend over backwards to make it happen.
  3. #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari View Post
    ...I would never feel comfortable seriously recommending the Treo over Blackberry's for any serious business venture...
    I generally agree with your post, however, I will not recommend a Treo or any other Palm product to anyone for personal or business use ever again.

    After this inexcusable fiasco, I will move my business and personal smartphones to the WM platform as soon as Sprint releases the PPC-6800 in the next months.

    At this point I will not embrace the anticipated Linux OS unless released by a company other than Palm.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    I generally agree with your post, however, I will not recommend a Treo or any other Palm product to anyone for personal or business use ever again.

    After this inexcusable fiasco, I will move my business and personal smartphones to the WM platform as soon as Sprint releases the PPC-6800 in the next months.

    At this point I will not embrace the anticipated Linux OS unless released by a company other than Palm.
    I used to recommend Palm all the time but I can no longer do that. If fact I say things about Palm they are behind and they do not fix customer problems. I always mention the lag. How can palm release a defective phone which has know problems. Yes the 755 is better but it still has the lag! If no lag it would be a great phone..

    and I am not so sure on the new palms coming out will not be touchscreens. That is a trade mark with Palm. The loyal current customer base is skeptical.
  5. #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    and I am not so sure on the new palms coming out will not be touchscreens. That is a trade mark with Palm. The loyal current customer base is skeptical.
    I wasn't aware of this change in functionality, how official is that information?
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  6. #286  
    Quote Originally Posted by morningstar1844 View Post
    I used to recommend Palm all the time but I can no longer do that. If fact I say things about Palm they are behind and they do not fix customer problems. I always mention the lag. How can palm release a defective phone which has know problems. Yes the 755 is better but it still has the lag! If no lag it would be a great phone..

    and I am not so sure on the new palms coming out will not be touchscreens. That is a trade mark with Palm. The loyal current customer base is skeptical.
    Boy, if true, that sounds like a really bad idea. As it stands the touchscreens on the Treo may be one of the single biggest differentiators between them and the competition. If they think that they could compete with the current state of their OS and form factor of their phones with the Blackberry without having a touchscreen they are delusional.
  7. #287  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari View Post
    If they think that they could compete with the current state of their OS and form factor of their phones with the Blackberry without having a touchscreen they are delusional.
    The scary thing is that their recent actions show nothing other than they are delusional... I wouldn't be surprised if their next "revolutionary" phone actually pooped on you when it rang...
  8. #288  
    I suppose that then peripheral manufacturers would start marketing diapers for it.
  9. sasq's Avatar
    Posts
    55 Posts
    Global Posts
    56 Global Posts
    #289  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    If beta-testing really happened at all...

    My impression is the MR is just the "watered-down" version of the 755p ROM with the 680 installer routine hastly put together despite the bull of extensive carrier testing.
    Hopefully Palm will realize next time they need to just ignore all the people threatening them with class actions, needlessly harassing their tech support for immediate release of the MR, etc., and take their time to test it out.

    They should learn that those same people will never be happy, and it certainly wasn't worth the risk to rush it out the door to try. Because they had mistakes in it, and those same people are now threatening lawsuits again.

    If I were Palm, I would hope those people would go get Blackberries, and take their business elsewhere, because I certainly wouldn't want to deal with some of the major whiners here as a customer base.
  10. efudd's Avatar
    Posts
    697 Posts
    Global Posts
    728 Global Posts
    #290  
    Quote Originally Posted by sasq View Post
    Hopefully Palm will realize next time they need to just ignore all the people threatening them with class actions, needlessly harassing their tech support for immediate release of the MR, etc., and take their time to test it out.

    They should learn that those same people will never be happy, and it certainly wasn't worth the risk to rush it out the door to try. Because they had mistakes in it, and those same people are now threatening lawsuits again.

    If I were Palm, I would hope those people would go get Blackberries, and take their business elsewhere, because I certainly wouldn't want to deal with some of the major whiners here as a customer base.

    in general I would agree- "take the time to do the jon right"-

    but you dont think 13 months is long enough to "take their time"?

    How long would be enough? 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by sasq View Post
    Hopefully Palm will realize next time they need to just ignore all the people threatening them with class actions, needlessly harassing their tech support for immediate release of the MR, etc., and take their time to test it out.

    They should learn that those same people will never be happy, and it certainly wasn't worth the risk to rush it out the door to try. Because they had mistakes in it, and those same people are now threatening lawsuits again.

    If I were Palm, I would hope those people would go get Blackberries, and take their business elsewhere, because I certainly wouldn't want to deal with some of the major whiners here as a customer base.
    Would you kindly share what would be your proposed strategy to seek satisfaction on a product that, by the company's own admission, is flawed?

    Futhermore, this MR was on the works, according to Palm, for over six months before the release date, the past couple of months was on carrier testing. What do you consider adequate development/testing time for this type of MR?

    Is it reasonable at all to request or release an MR for a flawed product in your view? Why do you think is unreasonable for us to voice our disapproval (or as you so eloquently put it, whine) about an MR that has caused so many problems after so much time in development and testing?

    And finally, if the best for Palm is for unsatisfied customers to leave rather than improve their own solutions, when the majority of their present customers leave how is Palm expected to survive as a business?

    Inquisitive minds want to know.
    Last edited by TreoNewt; 06/11/2007 at 02:21 PM.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  12.    #292  
    It has been one week since I have loaded the MR. I want to review what the performance is now of the targets we requested improvements to.

    LAG:
    - Overall more responsive and only has - what is still ery annoying - lag in & out of larger programs. The three I am talking about are Versamail, Agendus & Blazer. The Phone app is pretty quick though when those other apps are not being jumped from.

    BLUETOOTH:
    - I am VERY DISAPPOINTED. My Plantronics 510 still is having problems. In order to get quality two way audio, I have to keep my Treo so close to the ear that I may as well just hold it to my ear. I have already sadly re-shelved the headphone that worked so well with the 650. The headphone that was once reviewed as Bluetooth headphone of the year.

    RESETS:
    - I have not had a reset since I loaded the MR. That makes me happy. I still don't want to rock the boat by loading any additional third party apps that were already present though.

    MP3:
    - Will have to get back to you on this one. It's been so long that I have to copy some MP3's to my SD and find a my pair of (non-standard jack) headphones.

    Additional Features:
    - The integration of Contacts and Google maps is wonderfully helpful. The quick launch button cool but its usefulness is limited to me since I have so many shortcuts programmed.

    FINAL GRADE: C
    - If you add the new features, it would raise it to a C+ but I am only judging this by the patches that were required.

    In terms of lag, we were told 3rd party apps had to refine their software. That excuses Agendus but not Palm's apps - Versamail & Blazer. I could even excuse Blazer but not Versamail. Whatever Versamail is doing when it starts up - probably going through ALL the msgs in memory - I cannot believe that it could not have been patched to modify that behavior. The Phone app was so why not Versamail?

    In terms of Bluetooth, what can I say other than there has been no improvement in my situation..Had these last two been there it would've gotten a B+. Too bad.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  13. chavousc's Avatar
    Posts
    17 Posts
    Global Posts
    20 Global Posts
    #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by efudd View Post
    in general I would agree- "take the time to do the jon right"-

    but you dont think 13 months is long enough to "take their time"?

    How long would be enough? 2 years, 3 years, 4 years?
    Just barely long enough such that they don't actually have to support you on their device anymore.... because you've given up and moved on... Preferably to one of their NEWER WHIZ-BANG COOL devices!
  14. #294  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    It has been one week since I have loaded the MR. I want to review what the performance is now of the targets we requested improvements to.

    LAG:
    - Overall more responsive and only has - what is still ery annoying - lag in & out of larger programs. The three I am talking about are Versamail, Agendus & Blazer. The Phone app is pretty quick though when those other apps are not being jumped from.

    BLUETOOTH:
    - I am VERY DISAPPOINTED. My Plantronics 510 still is having problems. In order to get quality two way audio, I have to keep my Treo so close to the ear that I may as well just hold it to my ear. I have already sadly re-shelved the headphone that worked so well with the 650. The headphone that was once reviewed as Bluetooth headphone of the year.

    RESETS:
    - I have not had a reset since I loaded the MR. That makes me happy. I still don't want to rock the boat by loading any additional third party apps that were already present though.

    MP3:
    - Will have to get back to you on this one. It's been so long that I have to copy some MP3's to my SD and find a my pair of (non-standard jack) headphones.

    Additional Features:
    - The integration of Contacts and Google maps is wonderfully helpful. The quick launch button cool but its usefulness is limited to me since I have so many shortcuts programmed.

    FINAL GRADE: C
    - If you add the new features, it would raise it to a C+ but I am only judging this by the patches that were required.

    In terms of lag, we were told 3rd party apps had to refine their software. That excuses Agendus but not Palm's apps - Versamail & Blazer. I could even excuse Blazer but not Versamail. Whatever Versamail is doing when it starts up - probably going through ALL the msgs in memory - I cannot believe that it could not have been patched to modify that behavior. The Phone app was so why not Versamail?

    In terms of Bluetooth, what can I say other than there has been no improvement in my situation..Had these last two been there it would've gotten a B+. Too bad.
    Still with it, huh? I'm surprised that you gave them a C. I mean bluetooth was probably the #1 issue that we complained about and it still doesn't work right for you guys. That would be a failing grade in my book. I mean after all, Palm said they had to rewrite the firmware because of the many changes to bluetooth.
  15. efudd's Avatar
    Posts
    697 Posts
    Global Posts
    728 Global Posts
    #295  
    Bob-

    any chance of you ever telling us poor folks on VZ what files to copy from the 755p rom to help with the lags?

    pretty please!

    thanks
  16. sasq's Avatar
    Posts
    55 Posts
    Global Posts
    56 Global Posts
    #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    Would you kindly share what would be your proposed strategy to seek satisfaction on a product that, by the company's own admission, is flawed?

    Futhermore, this MR was on the works, according to Palm, for over six months before the release date, the past couple of months was on carrier testing. What do you consider adequate development/testing time for this type of MR?

    Is it reasonable at all to request or release an MR for a flawed product in your view? Why do you think is unreasonable for us to voice our disapproval (or as you so eloquently put it, whine) about an MR that has caused so many problems after so much time in development and testing?

    And finally, if the best for Palm is for unsatisfied customers to leave rather than improve their own solutions, when the majority of their present customers leave how is Palm expected to survive as a business?

    Inquisitive minds want to know.
    First of all, it is an incorrect statement that you are in the majority of customers. Themajority of owners have never had another Treo before, so have no comparison on lag between apps. The majority of Treo owners probably don't even use the MP3 capabilities that much. The 10-15 people I work with that have them certainly don't. For those that have problems, Unfortunately thanks to microsoft, people have gotten used to workarounds and resets, and in general things not working quite right, but dealing with them because of the other features that are actually important for business, such as the contacts, etc.

    As far as the update goes, this was a change in the embedded rom itself, and it was a timing issue where the MP3 software did not receive enough processor time. I have worked these types of problems myself, and they are incredibly difficult, as well as difficult to test thoroughly.

    Palm made a huge mistake by releasing this without it being fully tested. My guess is that it was rushed in order to satiate the demands coming from this forum. As far as "beta testing" goes that members have offered from this forum. Any release to testers would spread throughout the whole forum within hours. This forum does not have a good track record with keeping these sort of things confidential. Good case in point was the 650 MR, as well as the multitude of ROM modifications.

    As I said, it was a big mistake to release this early. But it was probably getting expensive to have to deal with the idiots from this forum that thought it would speed things up by harassing customer service representatives instead of just watching the web site, like they all were telling them to do.

    I must concede, though, that without some harassment, we probably would not even have this update, so I do think it was of some benefit, but I think it went way too far, once they said they were going to get it fixed.
  17. #297  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C View Post
    BLUETOOTH:
    - I am VERY DISAPPOINTED. My Plantronics 510 still is having problems. In order to get quality two way audio, I have to keep my Treo so close to the ear that I may as well just hold it to my ear. I have already sadly re-shelved the headphone that worked so well with the 650. The headphone that was once reviewed as Bluetooth headphone of the year.
    I don't know why other people are having problems with the 510. I have it and it was a nightmare on the 650 and 700p before the MR. It would pair then I would make one phone call and then it would disconnect and would take me at least 5 minutes to reconnect it. Now after the MR it still disconnects after one phone call but it reconnects automatically and even when it is disconnected if another phone call comes in it will reconnect for me quite quickly which it never did before. Im finally loving this head set and starting to use it when ever I drive. Maybe Im just lucky but I haven't done anything differently than anyone else but I haven't missed a single call since I updated on the 4th. Maybe I just have lower expectations.
  18. waldo15's Avatar
    Posts
    522 Posts
    Global Posts
    565 Global Posts
    #298  
    Quote Originally Posted by sasq View Post
    First of all, it is an incorrect statement that you are in the majority of customers. Themajority of owners have never had another Treo before, so have no comparison on lag between apps. The majority of Treo owners probably don't even use the MP3 capabilities that much. The 10-15 people I work with that have them certainly don't. For those that have problems, Unfortunately thanks to microsoft, people have gotten used to workarounds and resets, and in general things not working quite right, but dealing with them because of the other features that are actually important for business, such as the contacts, etc.

    As far as the update goes, this was a change in the embedded rom itself, and it was a timing issue where the MP3 software did not receive enough processor time. I have worked these types of problems myself, and they are incredibly difficult, as well as difficult to test thoroughly.

    Palm made a huge mistake by releasing this without it being fully tested. My guess is that it was rushed in order to satiate the demands coming from this forum. As far as "beta testing" goes that members have offered from this forum. Any release to testers would spread throughout the whole forum within hours. This forum does not have a good track record with keeping these sort of things confidential. Good case in point was the 650 MR, as well as the multitude of ROM modifications.

    As I said, it was a big mistake to release this early. But it was probably getting expensive to have to deal with the idiots from this forum that thought it would speed things up by harassing customer service representatives instead of just watching the web site, like they all were telling them to do.

    I must concede, though, that without some harassment, we probably would not even have this update, so I do think it was of some benefit, but I think it went way too far, once they said they were going to get it fixed.
    I don't mean to pick up fights here, but the facts speak for themselves.

    If the problems the 700p suffers were isolated to just a handful of individuals, they would have been either addressed directly or completely ignored. The sole fact that Palm, albeit reluctantly, admitted the flaws and admitted being working on a patch to fix them is telling everyone about the magnitude of the affair.

    Now, the buggy MR being released is a completely different animal. After months of talking about carrier certification, and the MR spending all this time being tested and re-tested by carriers, we end up with a piece of software that everyone knows so far has not worked 100%. Not only that but account by Sprint users tell us that Customer Support did not know about the MR until after the fact, and even then suggested not to install it. How can now Palm state anything with an ounce of credibility? They lost it all already. At least when dealing with 700p issues.

    I think it is giving us too much credit to say they posted the MR at all thanks to the blogosphere pressure, but perhaps we can take a teeny bit of that credit after seeing Treocentral's answers to the whole 700p fiasco. I even believe now the p in the 700p stands for Pinto.
    Ode to the Treo Pro: you had to look so good, you had to be HTC in disguise...
  19. #299  
    Quote Originally Posted by sasq View Post
    First of all, it is an incorrect statement that you are in the majority of customers.
    I never stated that I was.

    Themajority of owners have never had another Treo before, so have no comparison on lag between apps.The majority of Treo owners probably don't even use the MP3 capabilities that much. The 10-15 people I work with that have them certainly don't. For those that have problems, Unfortunately thanks to microsoft, people have gotten used to workarounds and resets, and in general things not working quite right, but dealing with them because of the other features that are actually important for business, such as the contacts, etc.
    I am not so sure that is relevant or accurate, an undeniable fact is the device has specific flaws admitted to by Palm. I believe is their responsibility to address those flaws regardless of the number or nature of complaints received.

    I strongly believe that if not for Bob-C's letter to Palm, they would have ignored those deficiencies altogether.

    As far as the update goes, this was a change in the embedded rom itself, and it was a timing issue where the MP3 software did not receive enough processor time. I have worked these types of problems myself, and they are incredibly difficult, as well as difficult to test thoroughly.
    I will not dispute that at all. However, why P-Tunes apparently worked well with the Treo 650 and not the 700p? Seemed like a flaw in the hardware/software design and since they released it as a built-in function of this phone, they should endeavor to make it work as it should and can, don't you think?


    Palm made a huge mistake by releasing this without it being fully tested. My guess is that it was rushed in order to satiate the demands coming from this forum. As far as "beta testing" goes that members have offered from this forum. Any release to testers would spread throughout the whole forum within hours. This forum does not have a good track record with keeping these sort of things confidential. Good case in point was the 650 MR, as well as the multitude of ROM modifications.
    I agree with the first part of this statement, this was the essence of my original gripe.

    Where we have a disagreement is the actual time Palm had to test this MR; I say they had enough since this is mostly 755p ROM enhancements which they had worked on for awhile, well before Bob-C's letter was published.

    If the MR was not adequately tested or was found to be deficient then they should have never released it.

    Instead they should have informed the user community about the issues in an open and candid fashion, instead they offered silence and tersely worded statments about the timing of this MR release.

    As I said, it was a big mistake to release this early. But it was probably getting expensive to have to deal with the idiots from this forum that thought it would speed things up by harassing customer service representatives instead of just watching the web site, like they all were telling them to do.

    I must concede, though, that without some harassment, we probably would not even have this update, so I do think it was of some benefit, but I think it went way too far, once they said they were going to get it fixed.
    People with articulate, accurate and valid positions seldom feel the need to deprecate their opponent to support an argument.

    Despite your attempts to belittle this community and it's efforts, you seem to contradict your own point; Palm would be ignoring the 700p's problems now if not for the organized efforts of Bob-C and this community.
    Have a great one...Doc D.

    Phillips VELO > Palm III > Palm V > Palm 505m > Treo 180 > Treo 300 > Samsung i500 > Treo 700p > HTC 6800 > Treo 800w > Treo Pro > Palm Pre > HTC Evo
  20. sasq's Avatar
    Posts
    55 Posts
    Global Posts
    56 Global Posts
    #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by TreoNewt View Post
    I never stated that I was.



    I am not so sure that is relevant or accurate, an undeniable fact is the device has specific flaws admitted to by Palm. I believe is their responsibility to address those flaws regardless of the number or nature of complaints received.

    I strongly believe that if not for Bob-C's letter to Palm, they would have ignored those deficiencies altogether.



    I will not dispute that at all. However, why P-Tunes apparently worked well with the Treo 650 and not the 700p? Seemed like a flaw in the hardware/software design and since they released it as a built-in function of this phone, they should endeavor to make it work as it should and can, don't you think?




    I agree with the first part of this statement, this was the essence of my original gripe.

    Where we have a disagreement is the actual time Palm had to test this MR; I say they had enough since this is mostly 755p ROM enhancements which they had worked on for awhile, well before Bob-C's letter was published.

    If the MR was not adequately tested or was found to be deficient then they should have never released it.

    Instead they should have informed the user community about the issues in an open and candid fashion, instead they offered silence and tersely worded statments about the timing of this MR release.



    People with articulate, accurate and valid positions seldom feel the need to deprecate their opponent to support an argument.

    Despite your attempts to belittle this community and it's efforts, you seem to contradict your own point; Palm would be ignoring the 700p's problems now if not for the organized efforts of Bob-C and this community.

    My point on that harassment is not the general disgruntled base here, but those that kept joining into Palm's tech chat and asking when the release was going to be out. People thought for some reason they would find the magic customer service rep that would have an exact date and time, so they kept bugging them, therefore costing Palm tons more money babysitting people.

    My main point is that, yes, the device had problems, that a minority of users complained vocally about. Thanks to this criticism, especially Bob-C's letter, we got Palm to admit the problems and begin working a solution.

    My major problem, is that people became volcanic and very obnoxious with Palm pushing for immediate release of the update. I wonder if that obnoxiousness did not make Palm push it out the door to early.

    I apologize for my harsher statements earlier. I've become frustrated trying to find real information in this forum and having to wade through threads talking about Blackberries in the wrong forums just because people are impatient frazzled me a bit.

    I have to repeat to myself: "It's only a phone..." :-)

Posting Permissions