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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohmster View Post
    There is some hope, but I am very disappointed with the response to the lags. Basically we are being told that if we want 650 equivalent speed, get another device. Or did I read this wrong?
    Nope....you didnt read it wrong. Straight from his letter - "We hear the dissatisaction and will try to continue to make improvements in this area on future products."
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    What *exactly* is it that you want that Palm hasn't already provided to the best of their abilities? I'm honestly asking here.

    As I see it, we wanted three things:
    1) More open communication
    2) Acknowledgement of bugs
    3) Fixes for bugs
    I'll ask again, and I don't mean to be especially confrontational here because i genuinely don't know the answer: What could Palm possibly do at this point that would placate the angriest among you?
    I prefer to call myself 'maniacally disappointed'.

    I'm still using the 650, and didn't really think about looking into the original letter by Bob-C (BTW, nice work) since I wasn't even thinking of picking up a 700p. However, my interest has grown, and I'd like to answer septimus' question like this:

    - I'd like the relationship between carriers and Palm to change (though I have serious doubts that Palm could bring about such a change). I feel that the end-users are like orphans, forced to plea for more 'gruel'. I don't see why carriers must influence what problems Palm can admit to. I also don't see why retesting a device for carriers is so difficult... and I wonder whether Palm is using the carriers as scapegoats (and I mean wonder... I don't mean to assign blame because I don't know the truth here). On the other hand, I don't think any carrier offers a level of device support I'd like to see, yet they enforce their level of support at us.
    - I'd like to see Palm's specific definition of a 'Power User'. I don't think of myself as a 'Power User' when I load a game or two, chatteremail, and use a bluetooth hands-free solution, considering that the large library of Palm applications and bluetooth (yes, I saw the discussion about the 'standard', and I choose not to address it in this post) are selling points of the device. In fact, I'd rather not have to think of ways that I'll need to debug problems on my phone. It's my day job to do software debugging... I don't want to go home and try to find out why my phone crashes in the middle of the day - particularly when the processes and tools to accomplish this are not simple to use.
    - I'd like to see indications of when a product will no longer be supported by ROM updates. Perhaps I've missed this somewhere, but it seems that Palms devices might get an update or two within their first year, and then that's it. Maybe I'm not just looking for 'end-of-life' indications, maybe I'm actually looking for longer product support lifetimes.
    - Lastly, in terms of items 1, 2, and 3, I believe I wouldn't be alone in not only wishing for a single letter that provides 1 & 2 and promises 3. I'd like to see a regular commitment to all three. Palm should be able to have a mechanism for tracking issues and be able to provide feedback on whether these issues are configuration problems or actual bugs, and whether there will be a fix made available (whether carriers take it is another issue that should be addressed somehow). In fact, Palm is in the perfect position of becoming a proper hub for issues with their devices.

    Regarding their concerns about trying not to scare off new users by reporting on their bugs... they should only be concerned if they're committed to not fix bugs. Aside from that, I know I'm not the only tech-savvy person who is asked about what tech equipment someone should buy, so why not make certain that tech-savvy people are pleased with the product and the company?

    Alas, I believe I've spent more than my $.02...
    Who's flying this thing?
  3.    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbound View Post
    I prefer to call myself 'maniacally disappointed'.
    that's a much better term!

    I'd like to see Palm's specific definition of a 'Power User'.
    Hm. Was that Palm's term or mine?

    As for the rest of the points, i'm pretty much in agreement, but I guess Palm needs to do them in baby steps.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    Hm. Was that Palm's term or mine?
    It's what I fear about what Palm means by "power users" in the paragraph of the letter regarding the lag issue. It contains the sentence:
    I donít want to sound like Iím dismissing the frustration this is causing for some power users, but it has not been reported by a significant portion of our customer base.
    So, the term came from Palm, but my comment reflects a little bit of interpretation on my part... which is admittedly influenced by some other posts in this thread.

    As for the rest of the points, i'm pretty much in agreement, but I guess Palm needs to do them in baby steps.
    Well, if they can step like a baby, I can whine like a baby, but I'll keep most of that to myself anyways.
    Seriously, I do understand that the changes I'd like to see aren't overnight changes... but if they do choose to take those baby steps, I hope they'll openly communicate about those steps. If they can say they'll deliver a better experience, and then actually deliver, they'll absolutely have me sold. If not, I may drift. Logically, I can accept that, but for some rotten reason I have some sort of passion for seeing this all work out nice. Oops... started to whine... anyone have some cheese?
    Who's flying this thing?
  5. #125  
    There are too many threads to properly track all this correspondance with Palm so I created one here to track it all. Be sure to check it out.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  6. waldo15's Avatar
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus View Post
    What *exactly* is it that you want that Palm hasn't already provided to the best of their abilities? I'm honestly asking here.

    As I see it, we wanted three things:
    1) More open communication
    2) Acknowledgement of bugs
    3) Fixes for bugs

    It seems that we got 1 and 2 and some of 3 has been promised. The only rub is the lag, and it seems to me that Palm is going to do their best to mediate it but can't guarantee that they'll fix it.
    Septimus,

    Indeed the letter covers 2.5 of the 3 items you mentioned. I am very happy to hear straight from Palm that they do know about the problems and are now open to admit them and correct them.

    Where I believe the discomfort of many comes out is that in the content of the letter, one of the major "bugs" we were complaining about, happens to be not a bug at all, but a "design constrain"; and we are being told to just nip it in the bud because, comparable to other players in the smart phone arena, the experience "ain't that bad after all". Of course I am talking about the dreaded LAG. Maybe the wording in the letter was not a sound choice, but when explaining the "perceived lag" it sounds like we are being treated like little kids in the sense that "Oh don't complain about your toy, you see how the rest of the new kids don't complain when their toy is not working as expected? Be a big boy/girl" .

    Up to this point I was very hopeful that this was indeed something that could be solved in a future ROM, I was hopeful that this could be the 650 experience all over again where after a ROM update, everything was a smoother sail for 650 owners.

    So then again, maybe as a Treo community we should all now face the new facts and try to embrace the cold, hard truth: the 700p will be certainly nicer after the ROM update, but it won't be the nice piece of hardware that was meant to be.
  7. #127  
    I think it was the wording Steve Sinclair used that "stirred" everyone up. Look the great thing is Palm knows about the folks at TreoCentral, and they take this community serious (what other site has this much power).
    I've had the 700p since it came out, sure there are some bugs that need to be fixed, and at least Palm is saying they are working on things. To turn the 700p into a bad, buggy device is crazy. That award goes to the LifeDrive

    The 700p is still considered by many as the best smartphone out there even with it's bugs. I just don't want anyone that reads the letter or the thread to think the 700p isn't a great device, it is. I go through devices so much, and if the 700p wasn't good I wouldn't keep it, so don't be scared.

    The BT will be fixed

    The music player will be fixed.

    The lag might be fixed. (when I think of lag I think of the LifeDrive, the lag on the 700p occurs occasionally, but it's nothing that would make you say this device is unusable or even close to the LifeDrive).

    Steve Sinclair is right that the 700p is still faster than other devices out there even with it's lag. While it might not have been the best words to put in a letter, don't forget the original intent.
    Jimmie Geddes
  8. #128  
    Steve Sinclair said that the 700p was slower than the 650 and he was right. It's a lot slower.
  9. #129  
    this is pretty cool to get a respond from a large corp. I don't use BT headset and didn't have the same audio issue (except when I am on the subway, or try to browse the web and listen to mp3 at the same time). But I do get the lagging white screen, but it's maybe a UI / human factor issue where we need something ... a progress bar?

    as for the roll out time table of ROM, I kinda understand... anyway good luck Palm.
    Visor -> Treo 300 -> Sprint Treo 700p -> Treo 800w
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by justdoit2 View Post
    this is pretty cool to get a respond from a large corp. I don't use BT headset and didn't have the same audio issue (except when I am on the subway, or try to browse the web and listen to mp3 at the same time). But I do get the lagging white screen, but it's maybe a UI / human factor issue where we need something ... a progress bar?

    as for the roll out time table of ROM, I kinda understand... anyway good luck Palm.
    I think it's a crappy device issue where we need something...a new device. It'll be a good day when I dump palm, gonna happen very soon.
  11. Camel's Avatar
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    #131  
    Call me 4 eyes(I), but i can see what's going on.

    I pretend that i am not a poweruser when it comes to the 700p.
    I feel the lag or a crash in my bones before it happens.
    I can predict every move this phone makes.
    I predict no update anytime soon after this letter.

    we need to reset the waiting clock. anyone? grab a stylus pen we will need to poke palm in the back.

    nice response, but very quite and DOES NOT DELIVER!
    Made this just for fun...I'm Kermit

  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster View Post
    Sounds more like customer dissatisfaction to me. Remember that pocket tunes worked just fine on the Treo 600 and that had a paltry 144mhz processor in it. Streaming worked just fine too.
    pTunes Deluxe skips horribly. I too regret having paid for it, since I found TCPMP after the fact, and it plays the tunes without the annoying skip. I didn't buy my 700p primarily for a media player, as I own an iPod, but I would like to be able to use it occasionally when I don't have my iPod with me. TCPMP fortunately allows for this. I would delete pTunes if it weren't crammed into ROM.
  13. #133  
    I haven't upgraded to 700p yet since I don't get EVDO at my house(I am with Sprint). However, I thought Palm's reply was very spin-free and forthcoming for a public corporation. I just watched the movie, "Thank You for Smoking," so maybe my expectation was low

    Count me in as a very satisfied Treo customer, and I have seen no reasons to change my view.
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by snowbound View Post
    I know I'm not the only tech-savvy person who is asked about what tech equipment someone should buy, so why not make certain that tech-savvy people are pleased with the product and the company?
    This is EXACTLY why Palm is dropping the ball by aiming for the lowest common denominator in designing their devices.

    By dismissing the "Power Users" as just annoyances rather than extremely important customers with treble effect on sales - they are simultaneously creating such bad word-of-mouth with the people who will either praise or destroy them with the people they influence.

    I've sold a LOT of Treos (and purchased quite a few myself) by demonstrations and descriptions of the capabilities and how I use them every day. However, I've also had to honestly describe the shortcomings of RAM, power, lag, bluetooth dropping, etc for people considering the device - I've probably dissuaded a greater number of potential customers away from the device simply because the trouble wasn't worth paying the premium. The one person who bought a 700p to whom I didn't mention the Bluetooth problem has been a bit upset at me for not making that point clear to him, as his old WinMob device never dropped the headset connection and the Treo is nearly unusable. Palm cheerleaders who get angry for us pointing out the problems have probably never had to deal with the wrath of people who rely on them for honest and complete overviews of a product - it's an issue of trust to give the "good" and the "bad."

    They lost a sale on a 600 and a 650 (finally got one on a 700p) with one person simply because they didn't have enough RAM to get rid of his T3. He stayed with his old PDA and away from the Treos for 3 years because of the miniscule RAM - and is by no means a "Power User" by Palm's definition. Some people don't want the hassle, speed sacrifices and errors of running so much off of SD cards.

    Well, we have "the letter." Now let's see "the action."
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by justdoit2 View Post
    this is pretty cool to get a respond from a large corp.
    I gotta say: I disagree. It's nice and I'm glad but it should be expected; intelligent corporations, whatever their size, communicate well with their customers who, after all, are their lifeblood. They also figure out who their most important customers are and take particular care to communicate with them and to address their needs. As others have said, we clearly are vital, viral sorts who do really affect Palms business so we are those customers and should get more love.

    It was crazy to have to wait so long for a response and I agree with those who are most disappointed by the pseudo answer re for me what is the most important issue, the DREADED LAAAAAAG.

    I've got around 3300 contacts. When I open a contact and go to edit the attached note it often takes 3-4 seconds to open the note; my Tungsten took a split second; Treo takes 10-15 seconds to perform a global search, Tungsten took 2-4 seconds.

    This is not good.

    I can't wait to see what they come up with.

    Lag fight well, all.

    David
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by scandalex View Post
    Nope....you didnt read it wrong. Straight from his letter - "We hear the dissatisaction and will try to continue to make improvements in this area on future products."
    Well, at least now they are admitting that they use us as beta testers...
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joad View Post
    Well, at least now they are admitting that they use us as beta testers...
    One of the things that always comes to mind while reading these threads is that we all dont suffer from the same syndromes. For some of you, you're biggest gripe is the lag, but I dont have that issue. I wont say the 700p is the most speediest of devices, but, per my Treo, its not that bad.

    My issue is BT. I want BT to work, and work better than 'well'. I want BT to be so freaking great that the thoughts of totally dropping the Treo would leave my mind!!! Currently I have yet to find a BT headset that doesnt sound like its in direct competition with a bowl of rice krispies!!
    ~ ScandaLous ~
  18. #138  
    My observations with my 700 p is that all the communication functions: phone, message, e mail, hijack the other applications that are running. Going in and out of service area, syncs, etc. hang it up. My Audible .com was virtually useless until I disabled Vsync and push email. I'm kinda resolved to the glitches. The best accessory purchase I ever made was the Seidio back replacement with the reset hole. A great timesaver. I strongly recommend it.
  19. hlazar's Avatar
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    #139  
    I get far more hesitation and problems from my windows xp machine than from my 700p. I'll be glad for the upgrade, but I find I can live with the problems for now.
    Henry L lazarus hlazar@netaxs.com
    www.netaxs.com/~hlazar/
    www.netaxs.com/~hlazar/god.html
  20. #140  
    yes my 700 is slow, sometimes not always which is strange but oh well. the bt disconnect drives me crazy, but my biggest gripeis when I'm doing something really important like playing little jhon and my sd card just disappears. now that really gripes me. just my 2 cents!
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