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  1. wcarr3's Avatar
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM View Post
    HEhehe, i get it in DC Metro between DC and B-More on 95 while doing 70+
    Obviously that 70+ MPH must NOT be during morning and evening rush hour in this area.
  2. #22  
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTenTodd View Post
    HAHA!
    So you can get 144 kbps while in a moving vehicle on EDGE?
    I call BS!
    Oh please educate yourself.

    Did you ever get 56 kpbs on dial up ?
    Did you ever get 10 Mbps on a 10 Mbps network ?
    Did you ever get 100 Mbps on a 100 Mbps network ?
    Did you ever get 1000 Mbps on a 1000 Mbps network ?
    Does anyone get 2000 Mbps on HSDPA
    Does anyone ever get 1000 Mbps on EVDO

    Learn about the difference between average and burst speeds.
  4. #24  
    Yet another reefrence

    Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT).
    Cingular's EDGE is Class 10, which by my math is bigger than 4.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    Oh please educate yourself.

    Did you ever get 56 kpbs on dial up ?
    Did you ever get 10 Mbps on a 10 Mbps network ?
    Did you ever get 100 Mbps on a 100 Mbps network ?
    Did you ever get 1000 Mbps on a 1000 Mbps network ?
    Does anyone get 2000 Mbps on HSDPA
    Does anyone ever get 1000 Mbps on EVDO

    Learn about the difference between average and burst speeds.
    I am well aware of the difference between average and burst speeds.
    My point is that Edge MIGHT pass one of those speed qualifications but it can't pass all 3.
    Apple iPhone, BlackBerry 8800 and a Treo 750 on the "new" at&t. Palm Centro on Sprint.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTenTodd View Post
    I am well aware of the difference between average and burst speeds. My point is that Edge MIGHT pass one of those speed qualifications but it can't pass all 3.
    So you are saying that the FCC, PC Magazine and wikipedia got it all wrong ?

    Are you aware that the same people who label EDGE as 2.5G use the sam term for EVDO ? Look it up.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    Sorry, but I have to say wrong, wrong, wrong. Please ask Nokia, Motorola, heck even Palm if EDGE is 3G. They will all tell you no! Have you ever gotten 144kbps in a moving vehicle with EDGE? I didn't think so.

    Case closed.
    Try a web search on "burst speed", "average speed" and "network communications speed ratings".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDGE

    Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT). Because of the variability, EDGE is generally classified as 2.75G network technology.
    Is cingular's class 10 above class 4 ? Yes, we have a winner ! EDGE is 3G.

    -Have you ever gotten 56 kbps on your dial up modem ? So I guess the billions of modems out there sold over the past 10 years, none of them complies with the standard that their documentation says they comply with. Case closed ?

    -Have you ever gotten 10 / 100 / 1000 Mbps on your 10 / 100 / 100 Mbps network card, router, hub, switch ? So I guess the billions of networking components out there sold over the past 10 years or so, none of them complies with the standard that their documentation says they comply with. Case closed ?

    -Have you ever gotten 480 Mbps on any of your USB devcies ? So I guess the millions of USB devices out there sold over the past 4-5 years, none of them complies with the standard that their documentation says they comply with. Case closed ?

    -Have you ever gotten 150 MBs on your SATA 150 HD ? 133 Mbps outta ya EIDE 133 device ? So I guess the billions of HD's out their sold over the years, none of them complies with the standard that their documentation says they comply with. Case closed ?

    Can you tell me one communications device that averages a transfer speed equal to the number in the standard it complies with ?

    Ahhhhhhh ! No communications device ever sold has ever met the transfer speed on its label. Is it a conspiracy to defraud the public ? No, it's called the world of advertising. The same people who redefined a MB to be 1,000,000 bytes are the same people who came up with these imaginary standards.

    Networks are rated on burst speeds, not average download speeds. Over the last 2 years, my SOHO cable service has been upgraded from 7.5 Mbps to 15 Mbps to 30 Mbps. Do I see those average d/l speed. No I do not. No one on the planet has ever realized average download speeds equal to the network rating under the specification under which it is rated.

    Does HSDP{A ever meet it's published rating ? Does EVDO meet it's published rating ?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA2000

    CDMA2000 1xEV-DO in its latest revision, Rev. A, supports downlink (forward link) data rates up to 3.1 Mbit/s and uplink (reverse link) data rates up to 1.8 Mbit/s in a radio channel dedicated to carrying high-speed packet data. 1xEV-DO Rev. A was first deployed in Japan and will be deployed in North America in 2006. The Rev. 0 that is currently deployed in North America has a peak downlink data rate of 2.5 Mbit/s and a peak uplink data rate of 154 kbit/s
    .

    Ok, how many EVDO capable Treo users getting 2.5 Mbs ? So I guess ya EVDO Treos aren't really 3G either.

    ooh lookie here, it's official:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution-Data_Optimized
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA2000

    The title of the 1xEV-DO standard document is "cdma2000 High Rate Packet Data Air Interface Specification", as cdma2000 (lowercase) is another name for the 1x standard, numerically designated as IS-2000.)

    CDMA2000 1x, the core CDMA2000 wireless air interface standard, is known by many terms: 1x, 1xRTT, IS-2000, CDMA2000 1X, 1X, and cdma2000 (lowercase)......While 1xRTT officially qualifies as 3G technology, 1xRTT is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology.
    So guess what EVDO users....welcome to the world of 2.5G !!!!!!

    Repeating two quotes from the preceding.....

    Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT). Because of the variability, EDGE is generally classified as 2.75G network technology.

    While 1xRTT [EVDO] officially qualifies as 3G technology, 1xRTT is considered by some to be a 2.5G (or sometimes 2.75G) technology.
    So it looks like the same bozos who came up with this imaginary 2.5G/2.75G designation for EDGE, have applied the same designation to EVDO. Still agree with them ?

    The simple fact of the matter is there exist no 2.5G specification. Until the FCC decides it's part of their duty to create an official specification for make believe things created in the minds of marketing types and overblown pundits, it will remain a fictional standard.

    The fact remains is I have given you 3 separate sources that say that EDGE meets the 3G specification. They have each stated that some like to call it 2.5G / 2.75 G but also that those represent "imaginary standards".

    Now if you want to accept such things as real, accept the fact that EDGE and EVDO are both 2.5G/2.75G.
  8. #28  
    You are out of your mind if you think EDGE is anywhere near EVDO. EVDO is most certainly 3G, so is UMTS. You want real world, compare an EDGE device to an EVDO device. You would have to be blind to think there is any comparison.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  9. #29  
    someone is going to blow a gasket over semantics.....
  10. glenada's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    3G is a bad choice of words. EDGE is 3G.

    If you looking for the latest and greatest on Cingular, "UMTS" and "HSDPA" would be a better term to use.
    Then why does my Cingular SIM card have "3G" printed on it?
  11. Jdoc's Avatar
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    #31  
    ZOMG OKAY EDGE IS 3G , YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT, YOU'RE RIGHT CONGRATULATIONS CHAMPION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111one

    Now carry on, people.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    You are out of your mind if you think EDGE is anywhere near EVDO. EVDO is most certainly 3G, so is UMTS. You want real world, compare an EDGE device to an EVDO device. You would have to be blind to think there is any comparison.
    Who said that ? The questions are:

    Is EDGE 3G or is EDGE 2.5 or 2.75 G ?
    Is EVDO 3G or is EVDO 2.5 or 2.75 G ?

    My answers were:

    1. It's a bad term to used when talking about speed because two things that are 3G can be very far apart in speed. EDGE is 3G, EVDO is 3G, HSDPA is 3G and each is worlds apart in speed.

    2. There is no such thing as 2.anything G .... it's an imaginary standard.

    3. Pundits have labeled both EDGE and EVDO as 2.5 and 2.75G. I think they are wrong for the reasons stated in 2 above. But if ya gonna give credit to these so called "experts", you can credit them in one case and not the other.

    If ya wanna be clear when talking about speed, forget the term "3G" and use EDGE, EVDO and HSDPA and eliminate the confusion.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by glenada View Post
    Then why does my Cingular SIM card have "3G" printed on it?
    Cause HSDPA and EDGE are both 3G. But what does that tell ya ?

    As can be seen here: (click on "test results")

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1772935,00.asp

    EDGE (Class 10) gets 220ish kbps on average sittings till
    EVDO gets 800ish kbps wuth peaks at just over 1000

    The article predates Cingular's HSDPA (3.6) but at the CES convention last January, PC Mag noted it HSDPA getting up to a bit over 2,000 kbps.

    So if you sent ya wife out to pick up ha HSDPA (2000 kbps) phone would you be content if she came home and said "Hey honey, the salesman said the phone you wanted and this one (EDGE 200 kbps) were both 3G and this one was on sale so I got you an EDGE phone". Would you be content with 1/10th the speed ?

    That why I say "3G" is a bad term to use. Kinds like saying if I was entering an "auto race" and asked you to bring my "auto" to the track and you arrive at my garage and see a Yugo and Porsche there. They're both "autos". But wouldn't it have been more clear if I said "Bring the Porsche". 3G is not descriptive, not indicative of what you are getting and covers too wide a range to be meaningful in any real way.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    ...That why I say "3G" is a bad term to use. Kinds like saying if I was entering an "auto race" and asked you to bring my "auto" to the track and you arrive at my garage and see a Yugo and Porsche there. They're both "autos". But wouldn't it have been more clear if I said "Bring the Porsche". 3G is not descriptive, not indicative of what you are getting and covers too wide a range to be meaningful in any real way.
    Sure, that's kind of like saying you want a hi-speed internet connection at home. What does that mean, exactly? In truth, roughly the same as 3G data for phones - it's just higher than normal dial-up. How much higher depends upon what you actually get.

    It really is better to talk about specific technologies than a whole class of them.
  15. glenada's Avatar
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    #35  
    All I have to say is that switching from a Sprint 700p with EV-DO to this 680 with EDGE is like switching from a BMW to a Yugo.
  16. #36  
    Man I really don't want to stir this convo up again....

    But why does the 700P support EVDO where the 680 can't support UTMS? I know there is more than just a data stream to UTMS, including voice interoptability, but man the UTMS data speed sure would be nice on the 680. Surely that would be fine in Palm OS, since it's fine on EVDO.

    Perhaps there's no room to pick and choose in the specifications which define UTMS.
  17. #37  
    I am impressed by the passion displayed on these subjects!! Fortunately I am dumb enough not to understand all this, but I am looking for greater speed. Currently, my trusty faithful Treo 600 GSM using T-Mobile has been terrific. At a convention, lots of people had the 700W with Verizon and I became immediatly jealous of the speeds. I picked up the Sprint 700P and am in the 30 day trial. But I am wondering if I should give up my beloved 600-with daily journal and floating appts but SLOOOOOOWWWW speeds. How do you check your speeds anyway?? Thanks in advance for any inputs.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by khaytsus View Post
    Man I really don't want to stir this convo up again....

    But why does the 700P support EVDO where the 680 can't support UTMS? I know there is more than just a data stream to UTMS, including voice interoptability, but man the UTMS data speed sure would be nice on the 680. Surely that would be fine in Palm OS, since it's fine on EVDO.

    Perhaps there's no room to pick and choose in the specifications which define UTMS.
    UMTS requires supporting simultaneous Voice and Data which PalmOS can't do at this point. EVDO (Rev 0 or whatever they call it) does not (they're separate).

    The latest EVDO Rev A, from what I understand, does require this, which means that any newer CDMA PalmOS Treo won't be able to support it, unless they figure out a way to fix the PalmOS in its current state to support it.
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyTreoBaby View Post
    I am impressed by the passion displayed on these subjects!! Fortunately I am dumb enough not to understand all this, but I am looking for greater speed. Currently, my trusty faithful Treo 600 GSM using T-Mobile has been terrific. At a convention, lots of people had the 700W with Verizon and I became immediatly jealous of the speeds. I picked up the Sprint 700P and am in the 30 day trial. But I am wondering if I should give up my beloved 600-with daily journal and floating appts but SLOOOOOOWWWW speeds. How do you check your speeds anyway?? Thanks in advance for any inputs.
    At the least you should go up to a 650 if you want to stay on T-mobile, as it will be faster than your 600, but not as fast as the 700p.

    As for checking speeds, most people use the following site:

    http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo View Post
    At the least you should go up to a 650 if you want to stay on T-mobile, as it will be faster than your 600, but not as fast as the 700p.

    As for checking speeds, most people use the following site:

    http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed
    The Treo 600 speed was 34kb for 50K and 17kbit for 5k file.
    The Treo 700p speed was 56kb for 50k and 184kb for 100k file.
    thanks
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