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  1.    #1  
    So, long with many other people, my 680 battery performance is a joke. I've got an unlocked GSM, BT turned off, IR turned off, etc. etc. (all considerations I never had to worry about on the 650).

    Yesterday was my first day with the device and performance was terrible. I drained it completely, put it on the charger at 6 last night, took it off at 8 this morning. It said 99%. Made one 90 second phone call. It's now 11:41 and I'm at 67%. Plainly, this thing is broken.

    I called Palm and they said my problem is that I OVERCHARGED it, and that that's what's causing the problem. They told me to drain it completely and charge it for 3 or 4 hours. When I said "you mean, I can't leave it on the charger overnight?" He said "not for the first few weeks."

    First of all, this sounds like a completely lame-brained, knuckleheaded excuse. I never had to do this with the 650 (or any other Palm that I've owned) and I never had to worry about trying to save a little bit of power here or there by disabling features. From the day I got it, I simply had good charge, without having to "condition" the battery or wait two weeks for it to be usable. Four hundred bucks for a phone that's halfway dead by the middle of the day after no use?

    Second, if this IS true, then when do I charge my phone? I don't know about you guys, but I'm rather busy during the day, so charging overnight is really my only option.

    Plainly, not everyone is having this problem, but LOTS of people are. For those of you who are considering a 680, don't do it. Wait a couple of months and see if Palm takes the responsibility to fix this problem. Battery life is a deal-breaker on this phone.
  2. #2  
    What utter B.S.! (Not you, the Palm response)
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  3.    #3  
    Yeah, it doesn't bode well for the hope that Palm will own up to this problem.
  4. #4  
    whoever comes up with a quality 'extended life' battery that will fit with the oem housing is going to make some money.
  5. #5  
    Somebody do THIS.
    Palm you could have even done this. Heck, make a Treo 685, charge more for the engineering that it would take to include a bigger battery (not like your customer will notice, you have been overcharging them for years). Give the people a choice. Call it a Treo 680+ or whatever, with the only additional feature being a higher capacity battery.


    Here I'll get you started. Watch along on this animated GIF.

    http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/204...batterybh9.gif

    As a side note to this image, I actually scaled up the battery when placing it into it's spot - presumably to account for perspective of this photo. I don't actually know how much excess room is around the actual battery but I was quite generous in scaling it up so it is certainly conceivable that you could 5 hours out of the newly designed battery cavity (perhaps more).



    You could even design a battery that is not only wider, but also thicker. Just redesign the case. Maybe even make a case with a whole in it to accomodate the extra space the battery would take. This would involve perhaps a more finished looking battery on the side that would extend evenly into this battery cover's open rectangle. The cover would have a lip on it to keep it from falling out of course. I can clearly envision the design so that it could give you even more power - conceivably up to 6, maybe 6.5 hours.

    If you need help PALM, just let me know.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie View Post
    You could even design a battery that is not only wider, but also thicker. Just redesign the case. Maybe even make a case with a whole in it to accomodate the extra space the battery would take. This would involve perhaps a more finished looking battery on the side that would extend evenly into this battery cover's open rectangle. The cover would have a lip on it to keep it from falling out of course. I can clearly envision the design so that it could give you even more power - conceivably up to 6, maybe 6.5 hours.
    LG and Samsung have been doing this for years with their CDMA phones. The battery and the battery cover are one combined piece. I'm sure it allows for a slightly larger battery capacity since any dead space between the two parts is eliminated.

    The only downside of this that I can think of would be that if you drop the phone and scratch the battery, you would need to buy a whole new battery instead of only a new battery cover.
  7. #7  
    You might want to use it for a few days. When I got my Motorola L7 the first full charge did have a very short battery life.

    But yeah, "over charge" is stupid bull****. You can't over charge a Li-Ion battery.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    You might want to use it for a few days. When I got my Motorola L7 the first full charge did have a very short battery life.

    But yeah, "over charge" is stupid bull****. You can't over charge a Li-Ion battery.
    Just to add to the confusion here..

    See my "88% first thing in the AM AFTER A FULL OVERNITE CHARGE" post..

    Very weird. Charged for 10 hours. Took it off. ONE MINUTE LATER: 88%.

    So, I charged it for a half hour. Back to 100% (OK..98%) at 8 AM. Has lasted fairly well today now..at 61% right now. Couple of 10 minute calls. IM+ running connected over data network for 45 min. Couple of hotsyncs. (Might have given it a couple% extra 'juice' while I was connected to the PC, tho).

    Since it was 88% after charging all night (even tho the light was green when I disconnected it, implying 100%), and got back to "normal" / near full in half an hour additional wall charge, maybe there IS something to this "don't overcharge it the first few weeks"..I dunno..sounds bizarre and highly unlikely to me, but I can't think of any other explanation to the 88% one minute off the overnight charge this AM..
  9. #9  
    There is some truth to the idea of not "overcharging" your battery. The most ideal situation is to take it off the charger as soon as its done charging. Obviously everyone cannot do that. But you don't want to leave it for many hours after it's done charging. That's why I usually charge my phone in the evening before I go to sleep and then remove it from the charger when I go to sleep.

    If you've ever owned a laptop computer, you would see that in the instructions they tell you to remove the battery from the unit if you plan on keeping it plugged in for long periods of time. The reason is because the battery becomes damaged over time from overcharging.
  10.    #10  
    I'm gonna try their suggestion. I've been trying to run it down all day, which isn't hard. Made one 45 minute call and lost 30% of my battery power. Should be able to drain it completely pretty quickly. Then I'll charge it for the recommended 3 or 4 hours and take it off the charger.

    However, given the way it loses power while idling, I have to expect that that means by morning it'll be down to 80%.

    Meanwhile, my 2 year old 650, which still has its original battery, has been sitting around for the two days since I got the 680. It's still got half a charge. When I noticed that this afternoon, it was very hard not to think "why am I even hassling with this? I should just send it back and go back to the 650."
  11. #11  
    I'm waiting for the Treo 750 and have an 8525 at the moment, and the battery is a joke as well, even though it's a 1350mah one.
  12. #12  
    I charged the phone last night. Before sleeping it was 100% on trickle charge (green light ON) before disconnecting this morning it read 92% (green light ON) No phone calls no messages nothing. Where the hell did the 8% go?

    I thought the days of battery overcharging were over. I believed that once the battery was full the trickle charge maintains the charge at 100% and just provides enough juice to the device to keep the systems running without drawing power form the battery until it is unplugged. Am I wrong?
  13.    #13  
    Good idea Archie! If you have a dremel and want to try it, I have an old collapsible pen from a T3...
  14. #14  
    I don't agree. I've never seen instructions on a laptop to disconnect it if charging for a while. I have seen instructions to remove the battery if you are going to be storing it awhile. I wouldn't leave a battery plugged in and charging if you don't use it for weeks at a time. But unplugging it instead of leaving it plugged in overnight is silly. I've been doing this with laptops and phones for years and I don't see any negative effects.

    I do see that batteries take some initial charges before they seem to reach full capacity. I think that is what some people are seeing here. It will take a few days usage before the batteries really reach their full life. Having said that it's still just a 1200mA battery not a 1800mA battery like in the 650.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric5273 View Post
    There is some truth to the idea of not "overcharging" your battery. The most ideal situation is to take it off the charger as soon as its done charging. Obviously everyone cannot do that. But you don't want to leave it for many hours after it's done charging. That's why I usually charge my phone in the evening before I go to sleep and then remove it from the charger when I go to sleep.

    If you've ever owned a laptop computer, you would see that in the instructions they tell you to remove the battery from the unit if you plan on keeping it plugged in for long periods of time. The reason is because the battery becomes damaged over time from overcharging.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  15. #15  
    You're right, that's how it's supposed to work with trickle charging.

    For your 8%, give it some time. Based on my usage (and others I've seen here) it will get better. But's it's still a smaller battery than a 650 has.

    Quote Originally Posted by volkslove View Post
    I charged the phone last night. Before sleeping it was 100% on trickle charge (green light ON) before disconnecting this morning it read 92% (green light ON) No phone calls no messages nothing. Where the hell did the 8% go?

    I thought the days of battery overcharging were over. I believed that once the battery was full the trickle charge maintains the charge at 100% and just provides enough juice to the device to keep the systems running without drawing power form the battery until it is unplugged. Am I wrong?
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  16. Stublue's Avatar
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    #16  
    These battery problems remind me of my tungsten C which also had a ridiculously low battery life. After putting up with this for too long, thinking it was the battery, I bought a new one, cracked it open and replaced it - it made little if no difference at all.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I don't agree. I've never seen instructions on a laptop to disconnect it if charging for a while. I have seen instructions to remove the battery if you are going to be storing it awhile. I wouldn't leave a battery plugged in and charging if you don't use it for weeks at a time. But unplugging it instead of leaving it plugged in overnight is silly. I've been doing this with laptops and phones for years and I don't see any negative effects.

    I do see that batteries take some initial charges before they seem to reach full capacity. I think that is what some people are seeing here. It will take a few days usage before the batteries really reach their full life. Having said that it's still just a 1200mA battery not a 1800mA battery like in the 650.
    I've owned several laptops over the last dozen years. Even though I like having a laptop (for its portibility), I rarely use it off the battery and almost always have it plugged in while using it. 90+% of the time it serves as my home computer where it sits on my desk pluged into a power source 24/7 whether or not it's turned on. In the instructions for each laptop I have had, it specifically suggests removing the battery if you plan to keep it plugged in for long periods of time like I do. For example, at this time my laptop has been plugged in for about 3 weeks now (3 weeks ago was the last time unplugged it and took it off my desk). If I was to leave it plugged in all that time, it would not be good for the battery.

    Obviously 3 weeks is much longer than overnight, but you get the point. I've experienced this same phenomenon with a previous phone. I used to own a Sidekick II. While everyone on the Hiptop forum was complaining about lousy battery life and not even being able to make it through the day, I would get 2-3 days out of a battery charge, and that is with having push email and being logged into AIM most of the time. It's because I made sure to condition the battery properly. As has been posted, Lithium batteries don't have the same memory problem that the old NiCad batteries did, they still have to be conditioned if you want good performance over a long period of time. The conditioning process is just different.

    I'd suggest 2 rules that you should try to stick to:

    1) When you put your phone on the charger, don't remove it until it's completely charged. Try to avoid putting your phone on the charger for 15 minutes just to get a slight boost and then removing it before it is done.

    2) Try to avoid leaving the phone on the charger for long periods after it is done charging.

    If you stick to these rules, you will find over the first 30-50 cycles that your total battery life will grow considerably. I've had phones that when taken care of properly, were lasting 3 times as long after a few months than they did when they were new.
  18. #18  
    30-50 cycles!?!?!?? Talk about having to be patient.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    You're right, that's how it's supposed to work with trickle charging.

    For your 8%, give it some time. Based on my usage (and others I've seen here) it will get better. But's it's still a smaller battery than a 650 has.
    I don't mind giving it some time but my work collegue bought the 750v 1 day before me and his battery life is exceptional out of the box at least 2-3 times better than my 680. It sucks to have a WM5 user having a good laugh at your expense. We tried switching batteries an it was status quo the 750v kicked my 680s ****. So I guess the 750v 3G phone does not need to condition the battery? What is up palm?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by volkslove View Post
    30-50 cycles!?!?!?? Talk about having to be patient.
    Notice I didn't say "after the first 30-50 cycles".....I said "over the first 30-50 cycles", meaning the increase will be gradual.

    I've noticed it takes about 1-2 months before I get optimum battery performance with most new phones.
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