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  1. #661  
    My battery life continues to get better. Yesterday afternoon I charged up my phone and took it off the charger around 6pm. Then at 8pm I had a telephone conversation which lasted about 2 hours. After the conversation the battery meter showed 76%.
  2. #662  
    I'll chime in again here with this new twist, for me anyway.

    I've done all the tricks, but until the other day had not let the battery drain to lower than 8%. I let it go last Thursday night to 2% until I charged it over night. Got the standard 30+ hours of use that I have been getting, but let it go to 0% on this charge. The phone lasted around 30 minutes on 0%, and I made one last call to see what would happen. As soon as it started to ring, I got a warning that the phone would turn off in 47 seconds. Strange number, but it counted down and indeed turned off when it hit zero.

    Plugged in the phone, called back my wife and finished our conversation. Phone was plugged in for maybe 15 minutes while I got ready for work, took me 15 more minutes to get to work, plugged the phone back in and let it fully charge. That charged started at noon Central yesterday, I saw the that the light was green around 1:30. I took the phone off the charger, and now almost 25hours later I'm still at 57%. This is a huge improvement for my phone.

    Why? The only thing I have done differently this time is the short charge cycle. Every other time I have charged the phone, it has been on for over 7 hours, going with the "trickle charge" theory. Is it possible that over charging is causing some of the rapid drain??
  3. #663  
    Quote Originally Posted by DIG View Post
    ... I now routinely find my 680 battery only declines at 0.5% per hour in standby mode (with phone ON and GPRS connection active, but no intentional activity). That equates to approx. 200 hours of standby time. ...
    This is now true for me as well. Every now and then, consumption slips to about 2% per hour at which time I do the battery-out recharge trick and I'm back to the 0.5% per hour again.

    Not ideal, but I like this phone way too much to return it. I'm sticking it out.
  4. #664  
    Quote Originally Posted by pshrimpton View Post
    After a month of having my 680 I have narrowed the issue down to the GPRS connection. Without the GPRS connection connected I average 1% battery drop an hour, and that includes calls, sms's and general PDA use. With GPRS connection on, I average 8% drop an hour regardless if anything is actually using any data or not.
    That makes sense. I get about 12 hours with constant blazer and Chatteremail, so lots of activity is the same as no activity?
  5. #665  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneOfLove View Post
    I've done all the tricks, but until the other day had not let the battery drain to lower than 8%.... I took the phone off the charger, and now almost 25hours later I'm still at 57%. This is a huge improvement for my phone.

    Why? The only thing I have done differently this time is the short charge cycle. Every other time I have charged the phone, it has been on for over 7 hours, going with the "trickle charge" theory. Is it possible that over charging is causing some of the rapid drain??
    I think it's due to the full drain.

    When I first drained my battery, it rocked down to 20%, but then took 2x as long from 20->2% as from 100->20. Then it took almost two hours to get it from 2x to empty.

    After I had completely drained it, I charged it fully and then drained it completely again. This time it was a bit more even, but still heavy on the bottom.

    Since then, it seems to have evened out a bit more.

    I think the charger/sensor system doesn't work well with brand new batteries. Everyone should try draining their battery all the way a few times.
  6. #666  
    As already indicated before (post 640 of this thread), a new LiIon battery needs to go through 5 to 6 FULL discharge/charge cycles before it really is conditioned as it should be.

    Personal experience obtained when replacing the battery on my T3 almost 2 years ago (plus a LOT of reading on the subject ).
    Digital since 1980, Handheld since 2001
    M105, TE, T3.5, Treo 680, Treo 500v
    Happy Datebk6.1 user
  7. #667  
    Quote Originally Posted by holvoetn View Post
    ... I will now once again soft reset when connected to the charger ....
    I don't understand the connection to the charger. Why soft reset while connected as opposited to not connected? Is that important?
  8. #668  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdavis View Post
    I don't understand the connection to the charger. Why soft reset while connected as opposited to not connected? Is that important?
    Yes. This specific combination ALSO recalibrates the battery charging circuitry.
    Digital since 1980, Handheld since 2001
    M105, TE, T3.5, Treo 680, Treo 500v
    Happy Datebk6.1 user
  9. #669  
    I ordered my Cingular 680 from Let's Talk. Battery life has been abysmal, so I called their support today. After reaching the 3rd level of support, I was finally told that since they don't carry batteries, I'd have to get an entirely new phone. The only way to do this without sending them my current phone first was for them to charge me for a new phone, $350. When I returned the old phone, they'd credit my card.

    So I went to a Cingular corporate store. They replaced the battery for free since I'm within the 30 day window.

    Hopefully this will resolve the problem.
  10. #670  
    Quote Originally Posted by holvoetn View Post
    As already indicated before (post 640 of this thread), a new LiIon battery needs to go through 5 to 6 FULL discharge/charge cycles before it really is conditioned as it should be.

    Personal experience obtained when replacing the battery on my T3 almost 2 years ago (plus a LOT of reading on the subject ).
    I completely agree that the discharge/recharge cycle makes a big difference, but there are some caveats to this. There has been some discussion at the TREOnauts site (http://blog.treonauts.com/2006/12/treo_680_batter.html) about exactly what battery calibration does, whether it is needed, and how to do it. One contributor (post 51 from a battery technician) said that Li Ion batteries DO NOT need to be conditioned and that this can actually decrease their lifespan. I then read up about this on a few web sites (see http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm, http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86284) and found support for this claim, HOWEVER, the sites also explain that devices that use Li-ion batteries have to have their battery meter calibrated by fully discharging and recharging. I THINK this is what is making the difference to those of us who have allowed the phone to completely discharge. ie. it is not about the battery, just the battery meter. If this is correct, an important point is that only one full discharge (until the phone can not be switched on - this is probably important to ensure the battery is at absolute zero)/recharge cycle should be required, and if anything, more than one can be unnecessarily harmful for the battery. After that, the phone should be topped up more frequently and not allowed to run right down where possible. The discharge/recharge cycle can be repeated if the meter again seems to require calibration (performance appears to gradually decline). If anyone is considering trying the discharge/recharge trick to improve their battery performance, I suggest you try it just once, then measure battery decline on standby (using BatteryGraph or just recording battery meter readings at hourly intervals). If you get roughly 0.5% decline per hour (with phone on, BT, IR, time check off), this seems to be about as good as it can get for the 680, and you should leave it at that rather than doing it again repeatedly. Of course, if it doesnt work after one cycle, try it again and see if that improves things.
  11. #671  
    I agree that full cycles will shorten battery life time (LiIon only allows a limited number of full cycles) BUT it is a necessity when the battery is not yet conditioned. You HAVE to do this the first 5 or 6 times, after that keep the battery topped off as much as possible (that would be a partial cycle which does not count for a full one).

    I used this procedure on my T3 almost 2 years ago when replacing the battery, it is still running (and I qualify as a power user). I know A LOT of other people at BrightHand who also have replaced the battery in their device: same procedure. If you want I can digg up the thread references (but some are over a 1000 posts long )
    Digital since 1980, Handheld since 2001
    M105, TE, T3.5, Treo 680, Treo 500v
    Happy Datebk6.1 user
  12. #672  
    Here's what I think is the misunderstanding here. When some of us are referring to "conditioning" the battery, what we really are suggesting is that the Treo's battery meter is what needs to be conditioned.

    It is correct that Lithium batteries do not need to be conditioned. But the battery meter does. The lousy battery life that some of you are seeing has nothing to do with the battery itself. What is happening is that it is not charging all the way to 100% even though the Treo may think it is and is telling you that it's all the way charged up. And when the Treo says the battery is low, it may very well have plenty of charge left.

    So by doing a few full discharges and recharges, you are teaching the battery meter what 0% and 100% really are for the battery.
  13. #673  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric5273 View Post
    ... So by doing a few full discharges and recharges, you are teaching the battery meter what 0% and 100% really are for the battery.
    It helps, as in any kind of teaching, to use positive reinforcement. A new app, perhaps, even the promise of a new case, or even a warm cradle, would all work. Occasionally, negative reinforcement is required. A reset, perhaps, but remember, only a soft reset. A hard reset could cause resentment.
  14. #674  
    my experience given my daily workload which consists of constant data/email communication via Goodlink, 10-20min of phone calls per day? and very little internet browsing:

    11-12 hours/day = 8-9% drain per hour

    charging would begin at around 10-15% battery capacity left and charge overnight

    the only trick i ever performed was the "charger" trick. was pretty consistent in this kind of battery usage since day one.

    onto the Cingular 750
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  15. #675  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric5273 View Post
    What is happening is that it is not charging all the way to 100% even though the Treo may think it is and is telling you that it's all the way charged up. And when the Treo says the battery is low, it may very well have plenty of charge left.

    So by doing a few full discharges and recharges, you are teaching the battery meter what 0% and 100% really are for the battery.
    I think this is partly but perhaps not entirely correct (I am no battery expert, but this is what my reading suggests). I think the battery IS fully charged when the meter says 100% and the green LED light comes on, but the problem is that the phone does not accurately know where 0% is. Before calibration, the meter may be approaching 0% way to early (ie. the battery may still have plenty of charge). So the problem is that battery life looks much worse than it actually is because the meter is not registering the full 0-100% range and giving low battery warnings prematurely. When fully discharged to the point where it can not be switched on, the phone now knows where 0% really is and the meter more accurately reflects the actual battery charge.
  16. #676  
    Kind of interesting--one of the blog posts at the Palm CES 2007 MicroBlog [http://palmmicroblog.typepad.com/ces2007/] is from a new T680 user who had his battery die. He does mention the camefra issue, and plans to talk to the Palm folks he will be interviewing. Let's see how Palm officially handles the posting [.bet that blogger does not get one of the 3 free Treos].
  17. jfme's Avatar
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    #677  
    h t t p://kb.palmone.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=PalmSupportKB,ts=Palm_External2001,Case=obj(42764)
  18. #678  
    Somehow, over the weekend, I got the magic 1% an hour drain. I didn't do anything new, it just happened. It seems to be back to 3% an hour now. I am now looking at signal strength issues...
  19. #679  
    I have a 5 day-old 680 (upgraded from a 650) and had been experiencing the familiar battery drain for several days. This afternoon, though, I noticed that the battery meter actually INCREASED and has been holding at 99% for the past three hours. I've been syncing mail, seting appointments and having conversations, etc. and no change.

    It seems to support the theory that the problem may actually be an inaccurate/damaged/faulty battery meter, no?

    Has anyone experienced anything similar??
  20. #680  
    I have had my Treo 680 for about a week. The battery life is getting better, but as an aside - the treo is losing time. I have set it manually and checked it today, it was 15 minutes slow.

    Has anyone had this happen on the Manual time and date setting for the Treo 680?

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