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  1. #501  
    So this issue goes on.
    I was actually getting better battery life for a while, and then in the last two days, out of the blue, performance took a total dive. Took phone off the charger at 11 am yesterday, and less than 12 hours later, very, very moderate use, I was down to 10%, getting the warnings. At dinner time, I was surprised to find I was at 22%. I went ahead and used Bluetooth for about 2-3 minutes which dropped the battery another 2 % to 8.
    No rhyme or reason. I decided to do the reset trick. Today I'm at a much more acceptable level. Do I attribute that to the reset trick? Who knows? Because 10% or less charge overnight could be construed as "deep" cycle conditioning too couldn't it? I'm hardly any expert on this, but I have to wonder if this a firmware issue. I'm considering the extended battery, but if this is firmware, would it cause the same drain issue? I will be interested to hear reports about people's results with the extended battery.
  2. mszatny's Avatar
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    #502  
    I also had a battery nose dive today. I was down to 20% after only about 4 hours. The phone was very warm during this time. I'll to "The Trick" tonight and see what happens tomorrow.

    MS
    <img src="http://users.netropolis.net/mszatny/pics/bevo.gif" border=0>
    The Woodlands, TX

    Palm Pro > PalmIII > Visor Prism w/Omnisky>SPCS Treo300 > SPCS Treo600 >
    SPCS Treo650 > CNG Treo650 > Copper Treo680 > ATT Treo750 WM6 > iPhone 3G
  3. ediamond's Avatar
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    #503  
    This is definitely a firmware issue. I've been reading reports that vary as widely between "i get 30 minutes of juice" to "I'm on a week and still counting!" Battery manufacture cannot be THAT variable, nor have i ever ever had a Li-ion powered device that required a month of deep cycle conditioning to function properly. Once. Maybe. And when you combine the "I'm at 0% and I played MP3's for 2 more hours"-type anecdotes, it looks like the Treo is having a hard time either knowing how much power is present, rate of drain or it is having a hard time managing the power that is there. The folks who are using higher capacity 650 batteries are reporting similar problems.

    These for my money are firmware issues and I hope the software elves at Palm are hurredly preparing a fix for us as soon as 2007 is born. I don't mind slightly less capacity, but this is ridiculous. I hate paying $400 to be a beta tester.
  4. ediamond's Avatar
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    #504  
    Hey I just saw this over at another forum. Can anyone empirically verify this?
    ------------------------------------------
    Hi Folks,

    it seems like the Bug has found :
    In the german Forum called Palmpaper , the famous "Replay" has make an long Test with his Treo 680 and
    found out that the Battery Draining starts after using the Cam Application !

    http://www.palmpaper.de/forum/wbblit...eadid=105&sid=

    Please make the follow test and write your Results !
    - Use the 680 for 3 hours normaly = Battery Results
    - make an Picture
    - Use the 680 for 3 hours normaly = Battery Results
    Can you confirm that after take an picture the Batterydrain starts ???

    The Battery Draining stopps after using this :
    Take the Phone off
    Plug in the Chargecable (The Original !)
    Remove the Battery
    Wait for 3 Minutes
    Plugin the Battery
    Dont do anything !!!
    Wait for the Green LED "Akku charged"
    --------------------------------------------------
  5. #505  
    Ok... I'm not really sure if this is in support of the "Camera" theory or merely coincidence.

    Two days ago, my father was looking at the phone and turned the camera on. Over the past few days, my battery life has fallen dramatically.

    At first I thought it was BatteryGraph and uninstalled it but no change. Reading this about the camera, I wonder if there's any merit to this????

    I'm going to test the theory.... should be an easy fix, right?
  6. #506  
    Palm, please take notice and do something soon!!!

    PLEASE!!!
  7. #507  
    Yea, I had my battery "conditioned" nicely at one point and then I slid back to the dreaded 8% per hour drain-during-standby scenario.

    I did some experiments and I have some interesting results...


    1. With my normal software load (dozens of programs) and the phone radio on, 8% battery drop per hour.
    2. With my normal software load and the phone radio off, negligble battery drop -- maybe 1% in 6 hours.
    3. After a hard reset (only built-in programs loaded) and the radio on, very modest battery drain of about 1% every 3 hours. Yes, that's the "300 hours of standby" that Palm advertized. Unfortunately, you need to delete all of your 3rd party apps to get it.


    So, what can you conclude? Well, since the software load caused no battery drain with the phone radio off, the problem ought to be an interaction with one of my programs with the phone radio.

    With this theory, I am running a series of experiments wherein I hard reset then restore my apps in phases. After each subset of apps is restored, I let the phone sit a couple of hours to verify that the battery drain is still in the "small" category.

    I have completed quite a few phases and have gotten a lot of my software back on board without the massive battery drain. I've just started to move on to the "suspect" programs, the ones which may affect the radio.

    Of course, my science could be flawed somehow, so this could all be a wild goose chase. However, I have no better avenue to follow at the moment, short of returning the phone to Palm.
  8. juancuero's Avatar
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    #508  
    Quote Originally Posted by coppertop View Post
    Ok... I'm not really sure if this is in support of the "Camera" theory or merely coincidence.

    Two days ago, my father was looking at the phone and turned the camera on. Over the past few days, my battery life has fallen dramatically.

    At first I thought it was BatteryGraph and uninstalled it but no change. Reading this about the camera, I wonder if there's any merit to this????

    I'm going to test the theory.... should be an easy fix, right?
    I've been trying to prove this myself on my treo but it may be camera specific. I heard from some peeps "in the know" that there is a camera sleep issue that causes an excessive drain on the battery. Maybe when you guys hard reset the problem tends to go away.

    Has anyone with the severe problem tried not turning on the camera to see if the current drain issue goes away?
  9. #509  
    Quote Originally Posted by dtmfjunkie View Post
    Palm, please take notice and do something soon!!!

    PLEASE!!!
    All that "Open Letter..." stuff about better communications and here we are in the dark about whether Palm even recognizes that there is an issue.

    If that answer you gave means anything, Mr. Sinclair, here's your chance to prove it. This issue is exactly the type where communication matters. Many of us want to hang on to our phones, but a 12 hour battery life -- doing nothing at all -- sure is a big disincentive.

    We're listening.
  10. #510  
    I've used the camera about two times total, and my battery drain does not seem to have any connection. Today, following my nosedive in performance, my battery life is noticeably higher. As I had said, I did do the reset trick thing. Yesterday I was at 10% at this hour compared to 66% today, and more phone usage today even. I am definitely interested to see if a 680's extended battery of 2400 provides the same battery life as the 650's extended version. It should do the same.
  11. ediamond's Avatar
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    #511  
    Well in the interests of science, I used my camera on a fully charged unlocked 680 and my battery is now draining at about 8% per hour. (no other usage other than to check the battery.)

    Before I go to bed I will do the battery reset thing and recharge. I will report drain rate tomorrow
  12. #512  
    Has anyone else noticed (and figured out how to fix) a drop immediately after taking it off the charger?

    Mine regularly drops to between 93-99% a second or two after I unplug the charger, even though the light is green, and it says 100% while plugged in.

    Is this something I need to be concerned about? I've had it for about 3 weeks now. I'd say it usually drops to between 93-97%, but a time or two it's only dropped to 99%. It may be dropping more to the 95-97% in the last week or so, haven't mentally made the note to know for sure, but still doesn't seem right.

    It's almost dead now (22% last time I checked), so will probably be dead (or nearly so) by bed time tonight. Will do the "battery reset thing" and see what happens in the morning.

    Do I need to contact Palm? HELP!!!!
    Christy
    Palm user since 2000: Handspring Visor Deluxe (Blue) -> Tungsten C -> Treo 680

    SAHM with not enough time to crochet/knit, cross stitch, "geek" (w/ my computer and/or Treo)
  13. #513  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget Momma View Post
    Has anyone else noticed (and figured out how to fix) a drop immediately after taking it off the charger?

    Mine regularly drops to between 93-99% a second or two after I unplug the charger, even though the light is green, and it says 100% while plugged in.

    Is this something I need to be concerned about? I've had it for about 3 weeks now. I'd say it usually drops to between 93-97%, but a time or two it's only dropped to 99%. It may be dropping more to the 95-97% in the last week or so, haven't mentally made the note to know for sure, but still doesn't seem right.
    I would expect to go to 99% after you take it off the charger. When it is not on the charger, it is discharging, so it is theortically impossible for it to be 100%. It could be 99.9999%, but it isn't 100%, so the programmers probably do this to show that it is not charging but is being used.

    I have had a similar problem with it showing 93% after taking it off the charger. All I did was plug it right back in, and wait for the green light to come back on. When I unplugged it, it was at 99%. I would try that to see if that helps. You may want to repeat it a time or two to see if the dropping to 93% stops.

  14. #514  
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    Yea, I had my battery "conditioned" nicely at one point and then I slid back to the dreaded 8% per hour drain-during-standby scenario.

    I did some experiments and I have some interesting results...


    1. With my normal software load (dozens of programs) and the phone radio on, 8% battery drop per hour.
    2. With my normal software load and the phone radio off, negligble battery drop -- maybe 1% in 6 hours.
    3. After a hard reset (only built-in programs loaded) and the radio on, very modest battery drain of about 1% every 3 hours. Yes, that's the "300 hours of standby" that Palm advertized. Unfortunately, you need to delete all of your 3rd party apps to get it.


    So, what can you conclude? Well, since the software load caused no battery drain with the phone radio off, the problem ought to be an interaction with one of my programs with the phone radio.

    With this theory, I am running a series of experiments wherein I hard reset then restore my apps in phases. After each subset of apps is restored, I let the phone sit a couple of hours to verify that the battery drain is still in the "small" category.

    I have completed quite a few phases and have gotten a lot of my software back on board without the massive battery drain. I've just started to move on to the "suspect" programs, the ones which may affect the radio.

    Of course, my science could be flawed somehow, so this could all be a wild goose chase. However, I have no better avenue to follow at the moment, short of returning the phone to Palm.
    Can you share your results? Which programs are causing the most drain?
  15. #515  
    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickS View Post
    1. With my normal software load (dozens of programs) and the phone radio on, 8% battery drop per hour.
    2. With my normal software load and the phone radio off, negligble battery drop -- maybe 1% in 6 hours.
    3. After a hard reset (only built-in programs loaded) and the radio on, very modest battery drain of about 1% every 3 hours. Yes, that's the "300 hours of standby" that Palm advertized. Unfortunately, you need to delete all of your 3rd party apps to get it.


    So, what can you conclude? Well, since the software load caused no battery drain with the phone radio off, the problem ought to be an interaction with one of my programs with the phone radio.

    With this theory, I am running a series of experiments wherein I hard reset then restore my apps in phases. After each subset of apps is restored, I let the phone sit a couple of hours to verify that the battery drain is still in the "small" category.

    I have completed quite a few phases and have gotten a lot of my software back on board without the massive battery drain. I've just started to move on to the "suspect" programs, the ones which may affect the radio.

    Of course, my science could be flawed somehow, so this could all be a wild goose chase. However, I have no better avenue to follow at the moment, short of returning the phone to Palm.
    I have done all of my testing with just a few apps installed on all of the phones that I am testing; Palm Reader, MobiPocket 5, Ringo Pro, BatteryGraph and Warfare Inc. The only one that I think that could be trying to connnect would be Mobipocket, for it's newsreader service. Ringo Pro has the ability to connect to their site, but it seems to only be user initiated.

    The past couple of days, the second 680 I received seems to be doing better. Battery use is about 20% a day but it was a weekend, and only used for a few phone calls. Today was a normal workday, and it was okay, didn't go below 70%.

    I did find one problem with my first 680. If I applied pressure to the right side of the phone, it caused the slider on the display to move up and down, like I was scrolling through the menu. So that phone is on it's way back.


  16. #516  
    Quote Originally Posted by dtmfjunkie View Post
    Can you share your results? Which programs are causing the most drain?
    Strangely enough, none.

    I have now re-loaded pretty much all of the programs I originally had and my battery life is nothing short of stellar .... well, for a 680.

    Over the last 10+ hours, my battery has dropped only 18% ... that is with no phone calls but with periodic fiddling with it to restore phase after phase of apps using NVBackup (selective restore).

    I'm starting to think that the hard reset temporarily fixes the problem and that, yes, maybe the rumours are right and there is a problem with the camera (which I haven't launched even once this whole time).

    This isn't science after all. More like science fiction.
  17. #517  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget Momma View Post
    Has anyone else noticed (and figured out how to fix) a drop immediately after taking it off the charger?

    Mine regularly drops to between 93-99% a second or two after I unplug the charger, even though the light is green, and it says 100% while plugged in.

    Is this something I need to be concerned about? I've had it for about 3 weeks now. I'd say it usually drops to between 93-97%, but a time or two it's only dropped to 99%. It may be dropping more to the 95-97% in the last week or so, haven't mentally made the note to know for sure, but still doesn't seem right.

    It's almost dead now (22% last time I checked), so will probably be dead (or nearly so) by bed time tonight. Will do the "battery reset thing" and see what happens in the morning.

    Do I need to contact Palm? HELP!!!!
    Happens to me EVERY time I take it off the charger.

    I NEVER get 100%, and don't even consistently get 99%. Yesterday, after TWO DAYS on the charger, I took it off, and it read 93%.

    There is a DEFECT with this phone, and Palm needs to AT LEAST acknowledge it.

    I'm new to the Treo (coming from a Samsung i500), but have had converged phones since they've existed. And Palm stand-alones before this (eg: m515, or whatever it was called - can't remember right now). But the bottom line to me is this:

    Palm is in a fight to even stay alive. Microsoft has them square in the cross-hairs, and has the "big guns" trained on doing to them what they did to Netscape and anyone else who DARED to try to make a few shillings in a market segment that M$ wants to own. So, it is imperative to Palm's very survival to do things that outflank M$ - you know..quaint little things like actually putting out solid or at least "mostly" functional product and supporting your customers (gee, there I go again being old fashioned).

    This "culture of arrogance" that Palm seems to have, thinking they have "hot" products when they are total crap, and refusing to even ACKNOWLEDGE that there are bugs and work toward fixing them will be the death of the company. My prediction: in two years, Palm will cease to exist. M$ will have killed them off completely, or they will be sold for scrap.

    Of course, they could actually INNOVATE and provide SUPPORT and have a small (VERY SMALL) chance to survive.

    Palm - are you smart enough to "get it"? Or, will you be headed for the dustbin of history along with Netscape, Betamax and other technologies that bit the dust over the past 25 years? History is replete with examples of companies that had "good" technology going away, because it is about far, far more than technology alone to be successful.
  18. #518  
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneOfLove View Post
    I opened up the phone and pulled the card out. Saw the "fireball 3G" logo thing.
    According to Cingular CS, I have a 3G card even though it doesn't say so on the card. The fact that it's a 64k card indicates that it's a 3G card.
  19. #519  
    Quote Originally Posted by locon View Post
    The "trick" worked for me. i was getting 12h of light usage a day for 10 days since i got my 680. Overnight the battery drained completly even with the phone off.
    Yesterday I tried the trick and now after 18 hours I'm at 70% battery it would have been way dead by now before the trick.
    Did you do the reset with the Treo dead or fully charged? I tried it at near-dead twice to no effect. Then I did it with it fully charged, and I +think) it helped. My overnight drain with everything off was way less last night than before.
    I have a cingular 680...with 64k SIM not the 3G one so I think it has nothing to do with that.
    Same here.
  20. #520  
    Quote Originally Posted by ediamond View Post
    Hey I just saw this over at another forum. Can anyone empirically verify this?
    ------------------------------------------
    Hi Folks,

    it seems like the Bug has found :
    In the german Forum called Palmpaper , the famous "Replay" has make an long Test with his Treo 680 and
    found out that the Battery Draining starts after using the Cam Application !
    I can refute this, is that good enough?

    I don't use the camera, except to play around with. The "battery drain" issue happens regardless of the use or not of the camera. And my 680 is an unlocked one, direct from Palm, with the multilingual options at initial startup.

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