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  1. #21  
    I would point out that most of the users here have not had their 680 long. I think both the 680 and the 750 could use longer battery life. But the battery life on my 750 is significantly better than it was in the beginning. In the beginning I get it low enough to recharge by 2pm. Now lasting the day is pretty easy. It's still a recharge every night thing but it has gotten better. I think in a couple of weeks you will see the battery life get better. Not double, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase maybe 30 - 50% over what it is to start.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  2. #22  
    I hope you're right.

    A general question....

    Do the Treo batteries have "memory" like the old NiCads? In other words, is it best to let the battery run down almost totally before recharging?
  3. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pighood View Post
    I hope you're right.

    A general question....

    Do the Treo batteries have "memory" like the old NiCads? In other words, is it best to let the battery run down almost totally before recharging?
    No. The batteries are Lithium Ion. It's actually better NOT to run them down, but rather to top them off as often as possible.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  4. #24  
    I don't think they have memory like the nicads, but I think there is a break-in period where it takes a few cycles before they start storing their full charge.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec View Post
    No. The batteries are Lithium Ion. It's actually better NOT to run them down, but rather to top them off as often as possible.
    Good. Thanks.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I don't think they have memory like the nicads, but I think there is a break-in period where it takes a few cycles before they start storing their full charge.
    I hope to DARWIN you're right, and that folks might unrustle they feathers. Meanwhile, I have Seidio's website favorited.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I don't think they have memory like the nicads, but I think there is a break-in period where it takes a few cycles before they start storing their full charge.
    I've never heard of this (among many things I'll admit) and am having trouble understanding how a Li battery can get MORE efficient over time. How would this work exactly?
  8. Xochi's Avatar
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    #28  
    Lithium Ion batteries are "smart" batteries, in the sense that there is active circuitry that monitors the battery state and charge levels, preventing both over and under-charge.

    This circuitry needs to learn about the batteries full range of performance -- for this reason, most people recommend that you fully charge it and fully discharge a new LiIon battery a few times, so the circuitry can get calibrated.

    Note: I'm not 100% this is true of the Palm batteries, but it is true of LiIons in general, so I'd be surprised if it were not true.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec View Post
    No. The batteries are Lithium Ion. It's actually better NOT to run them down, but rather to top them off as often as possible.
    This is correct, but keep one thing in mind. It is best to always top it off when you charge it. What ruins a battery is if you constantly put it on the charger and then take it back off before it is completely charged.

    My girlfriend killed the battery in her RAZR by doing exactly that. She used a car charger and would put it on the charger for 5 or 10 minutes several times each day. Within 3 months, she needed a new battery. That same thing once happened to me when I had a Samsung i600.

    So as a general rule, don't put it on the charger unless you are prepared to leave it there until it is done charging. That is the only kind of "conditioning" your battery needs.
  10. JRoD_E's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I would point out that most of the users here have not had their 680 long. I think both the 680 and the 750 could use longer battery life. But the battery life on my 750 is significantly better than it was in the beginning. In the beginning I get it low enough to recharge by 2pm. Now lasting the day is pretty easy. It's still a recharge every night thing but it has gotten better. I think in a couple of weeks you will see the battery life get better. Not double, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase maybe 30 - 50% over what it is to start.
    I have had my 680 for just over a week, and the battery is getting better. I unpluged it from the charger 7 hours ago, and my battery is at 78% currently. I have done a lot of browsing, checking gmail, and playing solitaire (cards suck ).

    The battery is significantly better from when I first got the device.
  11. #31  
    I've had mine for a couple of days. The battery doesn't last as long as the 650. Maybe the reason is THIS PHONE WORKS, unlike the 650 which was replaced twice and still froze and needed to be reset several times each day.

    I've been doing quite a bit of email, web browsing. The phone is on all the time and at the end of the day the battery is low. It needs to be charged every day. I'm thinking of getting an extra battery.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I would point out that most of the users here have not had their 680 long. I think both the 680 and the 750 could use longer battery life. But the battery life on my 750 is significantly better than it was in the beginning. In the beginning I get it low enough to recharge by 2pm. Now lasting the day is pretty easy. It's still a recharge every night thing but it has gotten better. I think in a couple of weeks you will see the battery life get better. Not double, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it increase maybe 30 - 50% over what it is to start.
    Yes. this is a very good point. I've been measuring the drop off at night on my 680. My standby time has more than doubled. The first couple days, the remaining battery would be down to less than 40% after 8 hours of standby. Now after about having it about a week, the remaining battery is about 80% after 8 hours. Still not what I consider good, but usable. (Both of these with bluetooth and infrared off, and the phone radio on).

    In doing some web research I've come across different recommendations on whether lithiums need conditioning. A couple sites said doing two or three full discharge-recharge cycles is good for new lithiums. I did that, but don't know if that contributed to the improvement or not.

    G
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec View Post
    No. The batteries are Lithium Ion. It's actually better NOT to run them down, but rather to top them off as often as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    I don't think they have memory like the nicads, but I think there is a break-in period where it takes a few cycles before they start storing their full charge.
    ... So you guys saying NOT to run it down and top off as often as possible? This makes sense... Does this "break-in period" refer to routine use with these "top offs"?

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeP View Post
    A couple sites said doing two or three full discharge-recharge cycles is good for new lithiums. I did that, but don't know if that contributed to the improvement or not.

    G
    This doesn't make sense to me - this is not the Li battery I've known. It seems we have some conflicting battery ideas floating around - so I'll chime in with this:

    1. Charge often. Don't try to fully discharge the battery packs frequently. This only adds strain. Several partial discharges (regular use) with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one total discharge.
    Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion battery pack does not cause any harm because it has no "memory".

    2. Avoid heat. Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car, for example. (I won't be leaving the new 680 in the car for long - unless I forget)

    3. Don't charge up the battery pack just to store it away. When storing for long periods of time, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.

    4. Use the right charger. (kind of a no brainer)

    5. Don't use old batteries. While it makes perfect sense to have 2 or 3 extra battery packs, so that you always have a fresh one charged up and ready to go (as many of us will), it isn't a great idea to just buy up batteries and keep them around for years before using them.
    Last edited by ChrisInDiego; 12/04/2006 at 04:53 PM.
  14. #34  
    my battery performance has gotten better in the few weeks i've had my 680.
    I've found that plugging into a car charger when i'm going to be driving for more than 10-15 minutes for a top off helps.
  15. iomatic's Avatar
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    #35  
    I don't know if the battery run-down thing is because people are used to doing so with Ni-Cads or what.

    But with Macs, you run down the battery to performed what's called a "Battery Conditioning" that has nothing to do with the power capacity of the battery so much as zeroing out power, and letting the onboard battery chip reset and start with zeroed capacitance to correctly return battery information to the computer. Perhaps this is yet another source of confusion, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK ($or$ $don$'$t$ $know$), $Palm$ $batteries$ $don$'$t$ $have$ $a$ $monitoring$ $chip$ (?)

    I bet we get a bunch of "Got my unlocked graphite pre-order from Palm today!" tomorrow.
  16. #36  
    PLEASE....let's put 'em all in one thread already.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisInDiego View Post
    ... This doesn't make sense to me - this is not the Li battery I've known. It seems we have some conflicting battery ideas floating around - so I'll chime in with this: ...
    Of course the conventional wisdom is that it is better not to discharge lithiums, but rather to keep them topped off. That presumes they've been properly maintained. For example the manufacturers are supposed to store and ship them at 40% charge so they arrive well conditioned. If for some reason they drop below that for a while, a few discharge/charge cycles can be required to restore their performance.

    I wonder if the batteries in this first batch of 680s were allowed to drop below 40% when they were sent back to HTC to connect the mics they forgot to connect the first time??

    G
  18. #38  
    The 680 isn't made by HTC (the 750v is). The 680 is made by Inventec. In practice for me I fully charge first, then run until low (but not necessarily empty) and fully recharge a few times, then use normally. There's no question to me that the battery does get better with use. But it's never going to last as long as the battery in the 650.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  19. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisInDiego View Post
    ... So you guys saying NOT to run it down and top off as often as possible? This makes sense... Does this "break-in period" refer to routine use with these "top offs"?


    5. Don't use old batteries. While it makes perfect sense to have 2 or 3 extra battery packs, so that you always have a fresh one charged up and ready to go (as many of us will), it isn't a great idea to just buy up batteries and keep them around for years before using them.
    Number 5 there is the most important point. LiIon batteries die after a few years, whether you use them or not. So if you're getting a spare in a year or two, make sure it was made recently.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  20. #40  
    Friday, I started out with the 680 fully charged and used it sporadically over the weekend. A couple of calls totalling about four minutes, a few minutes checking the weather and one email check. Ended up with the battery at 57% when I put it on the charger last night.

    This morning, I started out with a fully charged 680, had four calls (a total of about eight minutes), a voice mail message and the batteries at 68% twelve hours later.

    I hope the battery will begin to perform with more consistency and longer life once it's seasoned.
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