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  1. mohammei's Avatar
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       #1  
    I currently own a 650. I've read the Treocentral review and visited the Palm website, but i still can't figure out what the key differences are between the 750v and the 680? Can someone please outline succintly?

    I spend a lot of time outside the US and use a Mac, so from my perspective the 700p does me no good (doesn't work in Europe or Africa, right?), and all the Windows versions mean i can't sync on my Mac or use the desktop software without worksarounds that I really don't have the time for. Isn't the 680 my best bet (assuming I stay with Palm)? What else would I be getting with a 750 (if and when it becomes available in Palm and unlocked)?
    Finally, are there any credible non-Palm and Mac-compatible alternatives?

    Thanks.
  2. #2  
    680 is PalmOS, 750 is Windows Mobile

    750 supports 3G UMTS, which allows for broadband speed data access, the 680 has only EDGE, which is slightly-faster-than-dialup speed data

    the 680 has a crippled version of bluetooth that does not allow voice dialing or stereo bluetooth headphones

    the 750 has a miniSD slot, the 680 has a regular SD slot

    the 750 has 240x240 screen resolution, the 680 has 320x320 screen resolution

    the 750 is capable of multitasking, i.e. running multiple applications at once. the 680 can only run 1 application at a time.

    the 750 allows you to talk on the phone and download data (i.e. surf the web) at the same time. With the 680, you can only do one of those things at a time.

    Those are the major differences between the two devices.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDs10e View Post
    the 750 allows you to talk on the phone and download data (i.e. surf the web) at the same time. With the 680, you can only do one of those things at a time.
    You sure about this? GSM/EDGE allows simultaneous data and voice connections. 650 does this.

    Now, what are the differences between 700p and 680?
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  4. #4  
    No, GSM does not allow simultaneous voice and data. You can be online and get a call if it isn't actively transmitting or receiving data but not simultaneous. UMTS allows you to be talking and browsing a website at the same time. EVDO-A will allow this, but even EVDO doesn't allow this.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDs10e View Post
    ...........Those are the major differences between the two devices.
    In other words, almost everything that is important. The one you forgot is that one is intuitive and easy to use and the other is MS.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    In other words, almost everything that is important. The one you forgot is that one is intuitive and easy to use and the other is MS.
    That is a matter of opinion, and it seems that the majority of the people who take the time to get familiar with WM think it is better. If you prefer POS, that's great, but I think you're in the minority on that one right about now. POS is definitely simpler, I'll give it that. But simpler does not equal better. Simpler does not even necessarily mean easier to use, such as in the case where something is so simple that it is not capable of performing certain needed functions.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDs10e View Post
    That is a matter of opinion, and it seems that the majority of the people who take the time to get familiar with WM .........
    Both of them?
  8. milkham's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Both of them?
    don't be such a ****.
    Personally I prefer palm os but this lack of wifi and ancient bluetooth implementation are really getting old. Its really a shame that they've allowed palmos to stagnate.
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 02/07/2007 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Inappropriate language
  9. mohammei's Avatar
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       #9  
    Thanks a lot for the clarifications. I have a better understanding of the differences.
    I do believe its a matter of opinion and personal preferences. For my part, the argument between WM and POS is moot. WM may be better (or not) but since i can't easily use it on a Mac, its irrelevant for me. As for bluetooth and UMTS, they're not that important to me (and in many of the places i go for business 3G is non-existent). Hopefully by the time they do become important Palm will have figured this out.
    One thing that is important to me is push email. Is there a difference between the 680 and the 750 (or even the 700) on this?
  10. cyber's Avatar
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    #10  
    this 680 looks to me as the highest end so far.
  11. Shucks's Avatar
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    #11  
    I will stick w/ Palm OS till the end. Too much invested in it.
    "Actions speak louder than words!"

    REX >Palm III > Palm IIIc > Palm V> Palm m505 >Kyo 7135> Treo 650> ARTIC Treo 680> and finally to the Centro!!!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by mohammei View Post
    One thing that is important to me is push email. Is there a difference between the 680 and the 750 (or even the 700) on this?
    There are differences as far as what software programs you would use on POS v. WM, but there are satisfactory push email solutions for both the 750 and 700. I am assuming the same will be true for the 680.
  13. #13  
    Personally this was the announcement I was waiting for was more of a Treo 700 GSM. When I finally saw the numbers '680' i was like "WTF" and then figured i'd bei n for some great disappointment and I was. Ive been a Treo 600 GSM (Tmobile) since day 1 (handspring/visorphone before that). My contract runs out w/ T-mo on 11/9. I was hoping to slide into a 700p but seems like i'll have to go the way of VZW to do this. Again utterly disappointed and how cripple-ware this phone seems to be. Looks like its made for the mom and pop user but not the power user. And my ultra disappointment w/ it being GPRS/EDGE . I was hoping it would have UTMS as T-mo is going to roll out their network next year but unfortunately I can't wait till next year. Given its going to be on 1 US carrier next month its either T-Mobile or Cingular.
  14. #14  
    You hit the nail on the head. The 680 is meant for Mom and Pop. Nothing wrong with that, and frankly Palm will grow market share and revenue far more with this type of product than one for the power user.

    Sorry, it's not for you. But if you want to stay GSM, the 750 is the solution right now. If you you want to stay Palm OS, then the 700p is the right way to go for now.
    Main Phone: Treo 270/600/650/700w/700p/750v/Motorola Q/iPhone
    Tried but sold: Motorola Q/Nokia E61/700wx/HTC TyTN/Treo 680
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shucks View Post
    I will stick w/ Palm OS till the end. Too much invested in it.

    Same here. I've bought too many programs, and have too much data already on my palm to worry about buying all new programs and converting all my data. It may be dead to some, but the POS lives strong with me. Still does everything I need it to.

    And to an extent, you can multitask on a palm. I listen to music on my Clie, while chatting with people in Verichat, and use docs to go to write. Granted they aren't all in front of me at the same time, but via a quick menu I'm able to swap between them without going back to a launcher.
  16. #16  
    Very true spygrad. And also, Chatter can get e-mails while I do other things. It may not be true "multi-tasking" but it can handle "multiple tasks".
    3 Sharp Wizards (who can remember the model #'s anymore?) -> REX -> PalmPilot -> PalmPilot w/1 MB Upgrade -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm m505 -> Treo 90 -> Treo 600 (Sprint) -> Treo 650 (Sprint) -> Treo 700p (Sprint) -> Treo 755p (Sprint) -> Centro (KB & Batt too small) -> Treo 755p & Black Centro

    Current "essential" programs: Chatter, 2day, TakePhone, SplashID, PalmPDF, 4Cast, DA, GoogleMaps, BackupMan, PowerHero, KeyCaps, LudusP, mSafe, TextPlus, VolumeCare, ePocrates, zLauncher.
  17. Q
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis View Post
    But if you want to stay GSM, the 750 is the solution right now. If you you want to stay Palm OS, then the 700p is the right way to go for now.
    And if you want both, it means finding a stopgap until we see Linux-based devices with UMTS/HSDPA sometime next year.

    The 700p is only the right way to go if 1) you must have high speed and 2) your device's OS is more important than which cell carrier you're on.

    Me, I'm sticking with Cingular (and if I were to switch, it would likely be to T-Mobile), so no 700p for me. I don't like Verizon's costs or Sprint's coverage (or lack thereof) or instability from their merger with Nextel. I really don't like WinMob, and have lots of software, from using Palm OS devices since 1998, that I'd like to keep using.

    On the other hand, my 650's memory just isn't enough and I prefer the squarer shape of the newer-style buttons (though not the placement of the menu button). I could get discounts from Cingular on an upgrade, though I'd rather get an unlocked Treo like my 650. I'm planning on getting the 680 for the additional memory and stability, the smaller size without the antenna and lighter weight, and some of the enhancements (ignore w/SMS, add info to existing contact...).

    Whether or not it's the "right" choice for other people, it's the best one I see.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    And if you want both, it means finding a stopgap until we see Linux-based devices with UMTS/HSDPA sometime next year.

    The 700p is only the right way to go if 1) you must have high speed and 2) your device's OS is more important than which cell carrier you're on.

    Me, I'm sticking with Cingular (and if I were to switch, it would likely be to T-Mobile), so no 700p for me. I don't like Verizon's costs or Sprint's coverage (or lack thereof) or instability from their merger with Nextel. I really don't like WinMob, and have lots of software, from using Palm OS devices since 1998, that I'd like to keep using.

    On the other hand, my 650's memory just isn't enough and I prefer the squarer shape of the newer-style buttons (though not the placement of the menu button). I could get discounts from Cingular on an upgrade, though I'd rather get an unlocked Treo like my 650. I'm planning on getting the 680 for the additional memory and stability, the smaller size without the antenna and lighter weight, and some of the enhancements (ignore w/SMS, add info to existing contact...).

    Whether or not it's the "right" choice for other people, it's the best one I see.
    I seem to be in the same boat as Q. I have 8 years worth of Palm OS software licenses (dating back to a Palm III), so I won't convert to WM unless ALP turns out to be a complete bust. I need GSM since I travel overseas. Besides, I'm grandfathered until the old Cingular $19.99 unlimited Media Works plan. As far as 3G goes, Cingular is a long way from rolling out UMTS or HSDPA in my hometown.

    I currently have a Treo 650 which I purchased the first day they went on sale at my local Cingular store. The only real problem I have with my 650 is a lack of main memory. I use Power Run to transfer most of my apps to the SD card, but I still have to monitor my dbcache to minimize crashes. The 680's announced 64MB of user available memory should solve that problem.

    Do I wish the 680 was more feature rich? Of course I do. Am I going to buy it anyway? Yes, I will buy one the moment an unlocked version is available.
  19. #19  
    Hello

    I hope to make things a little clear for the "mom and pop" users out there.
    I come from a enginere/IT background so if I stray into technical jargon my appologies. I will approach this review from a applications point of view.

    My past devices have been Palm III, Visor Color, two Sony Clies, HP Ipaq, Verizon Audiovox Thera Pocket PC, and the Palm 700p, two blackberry devices including the 8700 from T-Mobile.

    All time favorite is the Sony Clie UX-50. It was made way back in 2003. But even in todays market it has the best design, fastest over all performance (best CPU and memory architecture ever), most features and best human interface (bottons, dials). But unfortuantely Palm decided to selfishly keep all POS control to itself and Clies are no more.

    I used to use my Sony Clie UX-50 with my Motorolla bluetooth phone for email and web browsing (Netfront, far superior to Palm Blazer, which is more of a WAP browser). But I am detaching myself from T-mobile due to their lack of delivery of UMTA (besides Motorola firmware is so buggy I have to reset the phone between every bluetooth use with the PDA). Other reasons include $300 refund of deposit which they keep promising to send for over a year and a dozen phone calls but never did.

    Push Email/Web browsing
    ------------------------
    The ability to receive email without having to constantly check.
    In this area the Verizon Treos do a very POOR job. Depending on the point at which the push server's cycle received the email the wait until the actual email is pushed to the phone from the time the email was sent could be as long as 15 minutes. I have been getting an average of about 10 minutes. On my RIM blackberry the wait is about 5 seconds. So by traditional definition of PUSH EMAIL established by blackberry, this isn't even PUSH technology. Treo was by Verizon and the Blackberry by T-mobile.

    Blazer is very poor at browsing non WAP web pages.
    So don't expect to browse the same sites on the 700p as on the laptop.
    Micosoft devices do better.
    Also Palm devices are very poor at accepting and rendering media streams such as video and audio.
    One can not go to youtube with a Palm device and expect to view videos.
    Yes, I know, Palm claims 700p to be a multimedia device. But in reality non of the media sites such as youtube or CNN work with the 700p.

    Don't expect Palm or Verizon to upgrade the browser or add plugins for media. Because Verizon is planning on a tight control over video viewing/music listening over the internet. In fact such services will be charged extra by verizon for a very few select content providers.

    Score: D-
    Recommendation: If push email is important and attachments are not a issue then the Blackberry outperforms the Treo.
    But blackberry is made pretty much only for the simplest text email and does not handle attachments well, and can not send attachments. The latency of the email is directly dependent on the server software. Both Treo and Rim can use Exchange servers which the client can install and configure, but the cost is about $1000 for the software. For the mom and pop user they have to depend on the telecom servers. Microsoft does a better job at compatibility with streaming media, but still limited.

    Multitasking
    ------------
    Palm 700p has the means for running multiple applications, but its highly hardware specific and the background apps under Palms hardware does not behave well. Memory bottlenecks and inefficient drivers also hinder the Palm devices (they should have left the hardware development to other companies). However, very few applications out there currently are designed to run in the background. This includes Palm's feature email program Multimail or more recently renamed Versamail. Yes, believe it or not the user is stuck on the email appication until it finishes sending or receiving. So if the user is transfering a attachment in the megabytes, it can be a long wait. The simpler built in Treo email program will accept email in the background, but only simple text messages.

    Score - C-
    Recommendation - Microsoft is better in this area, but be aware, multiple apps in the background takes up a great deal of memory and CPU cycles.

    Performance
    ------------
    Because most apps only activate when in the foreground the latency between switching applications is reasonable. Only reasonable... because my 3 year old Sony Clie out performs the newest TREOs. Poor drivers, poor memory architecture of Palm hardware makes the Treo somewhat laggy between switching application. And background applications struggle to access the memory. Such apps as MP3 players are almost unusable in the background unless the Treo is completely undisturbed. Expect between 3 and 20 seconds wait time for switching between apps. Background apps which require constant memory access are useless.

    Score: C
    Recommendation: Performance is descent. There will be plenty of times during the day when you'll just put the 700p back in your pocket because you cannt wait for the applications to refresh or switch. But consider that lucky, many users out there crash their 700p multiple times a day. Palm has to make up its mind... either make a simple, fast efficient OS or make one that is laggy but at least feature rich. Palm OS and the hardware it runs on are neither fast/efficient or feature rich.

    Bluetooth
    ---------
    Right off the bat this area of 700p was a disappointment. The bluetooth implementation is 1.2 rather then 2.0. Without going into details a device made for MP3, phone and internet connection to laptop should have implemenated the 2.0 version of bluetooth. Multitasking different simulataneous channels of data is done better with 2.0. But then again 700p is a poor multitasking device anyway.

    Connection to a laptop via bluetooth is highly unstable.
    My attempts to connect to the Internet via 700p's bluetooth with my laptop was frustrating. It required erasing the trsuted devices (laptop and 700p) off both devices (laptop and 700p) and reinitiating the trust on every other connection (accompanied by resetting the 700p). I highly suspect that both Palm and Verizon does not want the convenience of Internet via bluetooth. Why... who would pay $500 for a smartphone if they will use it only for a laptop bridge. The strategic position of POS would weaken. And Verizon of course is not happy with people with unlimited internet access using the CDMA for laptop internet connections.
    Hence, don't expect this glitch to be patched. It was more then likely purpoesly put there to hinder use.

    Corporate America is famous for such tricks, for those of us old enough to remember American cars before the Asian imports will appreciate a market with competition. Thats pretty much the state in which OSs are in now. Unfortunately Palm controls all its devices and Verizon controls all the phones they sell. Hence a monopoloy, similiar to a wintel (Windows/Intel) monopoly (yes, processors outside the Windows world are leaping in power and features while the desktop CPUs linger slowly). Therefore, smartphones will suffer from lack of innovation, performance and reliability until Linux enters the picture. Apple has announced its intentions to enter the smartphone market so perhaps things may improve from the current state.

    Emphasis, don't buy a 700p expecting either PAlm or Verizon to patch this.

    Rest of bluetooth connections are mediocore by feature. Dedicated non-smartphones, such as those made by Samsung do a better job then the 700p. Without going into the details, there are certain bluetooth protocals which control the streaming of data and remote control of the phone. Treo lacks in implementation in this area. Most of us will not be using stereo bluetooth headsets, bluetooth remotes or othere fancy devices so the importance will depend on each user.

    Score - C
    Recommendation - If bluetooth connectivity is important, dedicated phones have better implementations. Samsung in particular is feature rich. Motorola claims to implement the protocals but its so buggy its almost useless.

    Features
    --------
    Software library is the biggest in the industry.
    But take it with a grain of salt. As a engineer I found the applications I need are available for my 700p, but very simple and primitive compared to the Microsoft Pocket PC versions. Palm has more of the same types of software, but Microsoft has software that is much more sophisticated.
    But not everyone is a power user as I am. For the mom and pop, looking for a simple diet software the Palm is sufficient.

    POS is very simple and often programers have to use non standard methods and "tricks" to pull off certain tasks. There are rumors of a major OS release, but this rumor has been around for years. Its easier for Palm to maintain POS 5.x then release a new version that is more on par with Microsoft.

    The 700p lacks bottons and dials which assist in Internet browsing and reading of email. There is no scroll dial, no "back" botton or other human interface hardware that makes it easy to operate one handed. The 700p requires the stylus. The 4 direction nav is useful but not as much as the smartphones/pdas with the interfaces mentioned earlier. The Clie is excellent in this area and the Blackberry does ok (but no touch screen).

    Score: B+
    Recommendation
    For those of us with a large investment of software for PAlm this may be the only way.
    I recommend breaking lose from the Palm software library if one is a power user.
    Both the POS and applications themselves limit the capability of the software.
    Don;t wait for PAlm to upgrade the OS. Probably will not happen soon and even if it does, probably will not be able to upgrade the Treo.

    Conclusion
    ----------
    There is BIG hype by american marketing agencies concerning the iphone by Apple. According to press releases it will break much of the barriers placed by Palm and Microsoft.
    Complex OS, feature rich browser with media capability, and a large high resolution screen. Also built in 4GB of memory and XP and Mac OS compatible.

    Bad point.... GSM only and Cingular only. Hefty monthly fees ($80/month for internet) for Internet use, not even UTMA. So even if half the marketing hype is true it will be severly limited to a slow network without the ability to use the internet and talk at the same time.

    Recommendation...
    Enjoy the 700p or the iphone... in no time, due to the increased competition Palm and Microsoft will upgrade their devices against the wishes maybe of Verizon/Sprint/Tmobile etc... I also see Sony entering the picture.

    Keep in mind though some American telecom companies are against a free market, those supporting CDMA and glitched software on phones (Sprint/Veriaon) are hindering a free and open market. The rest of the world is GSM and up.

    Someday we'll be buying the majority of our phones independently from telecoms with unhindered software.
    LINUX and Apple will change the market. Bringing more powerful and feature rich phones. Cost of phones may go up.
    UMPCs with built in WiFi, wireless and bluetooth will become more and more popular pushing smartphones to be either more convenient or more powerful then they are now.
    Last edited by Gadgetere; 02/04/2007 at 06:57 PM.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadgetere View Post
    Hello

    I hope to make things a little clear for the "mom and pop" users out there.
    I come from a enginere/IT background so if I stray into technical jargon my appologies. I will approach this review from a applications point of view.
    Ouch... spell checkers are off, I hope. For an initial post, you are very opinionated. I disagree with many of your points, but not all of them. Also, this is in the 680 forum, so your critique _should_ be about the 680, not the 700p.


    My past devices have been Palm III, Visor Color, two Sony Clies, HP Ipaq, Verizon Audiovox Thera Pocket PC, and the Palm 700p, two blackberry devices including the 8700 from T-Mobile.
    ...snip ...
    Push Email/Web browsing
    ------------------------
    The ability to receive email without having to constantly check.
    In this area the Verizon Treos do a very POOR job. Depending on the point at which the push server's cycle received the email the wait until the actual email is pushed to the phone from the time the email was sent could be as long as 15 minutes. I have been getting an average of about 10 minutes. On my RIM blackberry the wait is about 5 seconds. So by traditional definition of PUSH EMAIL established by blackberry, this isn't even PUSH technology. Treo was by Verizon and the Blackberry by T-mobile.
    Get Chatter... It pushes like a blackberry (or better) and handles attachments.


    Blazer is very poor at browsing non WAP web pages.
    So don't expect to browse the same sites on the 700p as on the laptop.
    Micosoft devices do better.
    Also Palm devices are very poor at accepting and rendering media streams such as video and audio.
    One can not go to youtube with a Palm device and expect to view videos.
    Yes, I know, Palm claims 700p to be a multimedia device. But in reality non of the media sites such as youtube or CNN work with the 700p.
    motube and kinoma player work nicely with Blazer to let me watch and/or download videos on my treo. I have been happily watching videos on my treo since the treo 600 days.



    Multitasking
    ------------
    Palm 700p has the means for running multiple applications, but its highly hardware specific and the background apps under Palms hardware does not behave well. Memory bottlenecks and inefficient drivers also hinder the Palm devices (they should have left the hardware development to other companies). However, very few applications out there currently are designed to run in the background. This includes Palm's feature email program Multimail or more recently renamed Versamail. Yes, believe it or not the user is stuck on the email appication until it finishes sending or receiving. So if the user is transfering a attachment in the megabytes, it can be a long wait. The simpler built in Treo email program will accept email in the background, but only simple text messages.
    again, get Chatter

    Performance
    ------------
    Because most apps only activate when in the foreground the latency between switching applications is reasonable. Only reasonable... because my 3 year old Sony Clie out performs the newest TREOs. Poor drivers, poor memory architecture of Palm hardware makes the Treo somewhat laggy between switching application. And background applications struggle to access the memory. Such apps as MP3 players are almost unusable in the background unless the Treo is completely undisturbed. Expect between 3 and 20 seconds wait time for switching between apps. Background apps which require constant memory access are useless.
    BS... My 680 certainly does NOT have 3 to 20 second latency when switching apps. It streams in the background, using PTunes, quite happily and glitch-free.
    Score: C
    Recommendation: Performance is descent. There will be plenty of times during the day when you'll just put the 700p back in your pocket because you cannt wait for the applications to refresh or switch. But consider that lucky, many users out there crash their 700p multiple times a day. Palm has to make up its mind... either make a simple, fast efficient OS or make one that is laggy but at least feature rich. Palm OS and the hardware it runs on are neither fast/efficient or feature rich.
    I run many 3rd party and beta versions of software and rarely get resets on my 680. If you are reseting several times a day, you have added 3rd party software and are getting bad conflicts.

    Bluetooth
    ---------
    Right off the bat this area of 700p was a disappointment. The bluetooth implementation is 1.2 rather then 2.0. Without going into details a device made for MP3, phone and internet connection to laptop should have implemenated the 2.0 version of bluetooth. Multitasking different simulataneous channels of data is done better with 2.0. But then again 700p is a poor multitasking device anyway.

    Connection to a laptop via bluetooth is highly unstable.
    My attempts to connect to the Internet via 700p's bluetooth with my laptop was frustrating. It required erasing the trsuted devices (laptop and 700p) off both devices (laptop and 700p) and reinitiating the trust on every other connection (accompanied by resetting the 700p). I highly suspect that both Palm and Verizon does not want the convenience of Internet via bluetooth. Why... who would pay $500 for a smartphone if they will use it only for a laptop bridge. The strategic position of POS would weaken. And Verizon of course is not happy with people with unlimited internet access using the CDMA for laptop internet connections.
    Hence, don't expect this glitch to be patched. It was more then likely purpoesly put there to hinder use.
    Bluetooth 2.0 would be nice. I'd agree that they probably don't want to make it easy to tether your laptop.


    Features
    --------
    Software library is the biggest in the industry.
    But take it with a grain of salt. As a engineer I found the applications I need are available for my 700p, but very simple and primitive compared to the Microsoft Pocket PC versions. Palm has more of the same types of software, but Microsoft has software that is much more sophisticated.
    But not everyone is a power user as I am. For the mom and pop, looking for a simple diet software the Palm is sufficient.

    POS is very simple and often programers have to use non standard methods and "tricks" to pull off certain tasks. There are rumors of a major OS release, but this rumor has been around for years. Its easier for Palm to maintain POS 5.x then release a new version that is more on par with Microsoft.

    The 700p lacks bottons and dials which assist in Internet browsing and reading of email. There is no scroll dial, no "back" botton or other human interface hardware that makes it easy to operate one handed. The 700p requires the stylus. The 4 direction nav is useful but not as much as the smartphones/pdas with the interfaces mentioned earlier. The Clie is excellent in this area and the Blackberry does ok (but no touch screen).
    Scroll Dial <-> 5 way
    Back Button -> ctrl-B

    I rarely use the stylus when either browsing or reading email. I find the treo, with properly designed programs, rarely need use of the stylus.


    Someday we'll be buying the majority of our phones independently from telecoms with unhindered software.
    LINUX and Apple will change the market. Bringing more powerful and feature rich phones. Cost of phones may go up.
    UMPCs with built in WiFi, wireless and bluetooth will become more and more popular pushing smartphones to be either more convenient or more powerful then they are now.
    Here... Here! I (also) believe in a Linux Treo soon. (The Sharp was cool but the battery life was horrible)
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