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  1.    #1  
    Is there a point where the memory on the Treo is to low for the devise to function correctly. Currently, my Treo 650 has about 6-7 meg left internally. Is this about normal? Should I be worried and try to delete things?

    Thanks

    Sgt Paul
  2. #2  
    There is a point where instability begins - around 4 to 5mb; much lower than that it is reset city, just waiting to happen. Not necessarily should you delete, you need to look at moving things to your SD card - a third party launcher will help you a lot. ZLauncher is the big guy on the block and will give you the opportunity to customize as much as you wish.

    Ben
  3. #3  
    I think it also depends on what apps you have running and how much dbCache space you have. Grab your favorite beverage and read this article - it's a long one but hopefully informative.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  4. #4  
    The db cache is where the real work is really messed up. A utility such as MemoryInfo will let you check it and clear it as needed. Preference Doctor b125 is also working at clearing the db cache automatically at a user specified level and so far that is working real well for me.

    The article pointed to in number 3 is good, though a bit out of date - it does though explain the problems with the file system used in the Treo 650/700 series.

    Ben
  5. #5  
    Which part is out of date? I'll fix it.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  6. #6  
    If it's the stuff about the original ROM versions (e.g. Sprint 1.12), I understand - everyone should have updated to the later versions of firmware. However, it's been my experience (with the apps I have like GoodLink), that the db cache problem definitely didn't go away completely with Sprint 1.13a. PalmSource did improve the cache manager, but didn't fix everything about it.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  7. #7  
    The discussion of Preference Doctor - it does not "eliminate" soft resets, it makes it easier to recover from soft resets that incur the loss of saved preferences should they become corrupt or deleted and in most cases restores them with little if any intervention due to its ability to save preferences.

    Preference Doctor has also been updated to manage the cache following user defined available minimum memory level settings.

    Butler handles the Exchange Manager routine, not Preference Doctor.

    Fewer people experience problems with MemoryInfo than dbCache Tool ... anyway, I would like to see more discussion of what happens when a backup is done with a device based application, what happens to the db cache, how messed up it gets, the amount that is often left available after a backup is done. Then a discussion of those backup applications that specifically address the db cache issue and handling of alarms, et cetera.

    Then throw in a bit more about third party launchers, the cautions - the basic statement you have is excellent, just a bit about more about what one will likely gain when looking at the various applications available - you would not comparing which is best, just what you get with each application. Specifically not everyone needs the over all power of ZLauncher, for most people a simple launcher fits the bill.

    As for the "out of memory," you mention the need for a soft reset; actually just clearing the db cache with a memory management program such as dbCache Tools or MemoryInfo will get it going most of the time. And maybe throw a note in that if it happens very often that the application developer should be contacted...

    And maybe for the seriously concerned user that must maintain current data should a reset occur - an application by Northglide - OnGuard/Restore - an excellent enhancement to the routine backup.

    The memory levels you mention on your 650 means mine would never run - evidently the applications I run (mainly HanDBase) requires more memory.

    Anyway, more fattened up to round it up.

    As a note, my Treo 650 and 700p are exceedingly stable. The only resets I have had are related to beta programs (2Day changes for instance with its monitoring of ChatterEmail boxes) - otherwise NO unscheduled resets on either machine for two months plus. I pay very close attention to memory management.
    Ben
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The db cache is where the real work is really messed up. A utility such as MemoryInfo will let you check it and clear it as needed. Preference Doctor b125 is also working at clearing the db cache automatically at a user specified level and so far that is working real well for me.

    The article pointed to in number 3 is good, though a bit out of date - it does though explain the problems with the file system used in the Treo 650/700 series.

    Ben
    PrefDoc b129 is the one to use, there was a bug in b125 that affected the Treo 700p
    Thought of the day :
    No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Butler handles the Exchange Manager routine, not Preference Doctor.
    Cure1 in PreDoc is the Exchange Manager as well.

    Although I still use Butler, I switched off the Exchange Manager in it a long time ago when it appeared in PrefDoc
    Thought of the day :
    No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As a note, my Treo 650 and 700p are exceedingly stable. The only resets I have had are related to beta programs (2Day changes for instance with its monitoring of ChatterEmail boxes) - otherwise NO unscheduled resets on either machine for two months plus. I pay very close attention to memory management.
    Ben
    Ditto my 650.

    It is possible to have a stable NVFS Treo, you just have to read through a few posts and sort out your machine
    Thought of the day :
    No sense being pessimistic, it probably wouldn't work anyway
  11. #11  
    bclinger - all good points - now I'm a little sorry I asked

    I'll try to work on it over the next couple of weeks and link it to some of the other wiki articles as applicable. If anyone wants to volunteer to help write some of these sections (OnGuard, backup app comparisons, launcher comparisons) everyone would benefit from a more filled-out wiki site. There is quite a bit in the wiki already but I know at least these three are a little sparse/non-existent.
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
  12. #12  
    I have NVBackup reset my Treo every night after it performs a backup. I have had no problems with this procedure, and my Treo is very stable.
    NiceGPSuperior1 is a free GPS program, now with the ability to save your map! Get more info here. It's free! If you like this app and want to encourage development, you can donate from the web page link.

    NiceDrudgeReader is a fast, simple reader for The Drudge Report. It is only $0.99, so check it out, too! More info here.

    Search for "Nice" in the app catalog to see all my apps.
  13. #13  
    I up'd to b129 but b125 was stable for me. The only problem I had was the actual upgrade - resets during the process. But once installed b125 worked.

    I should have paid attention though.

    Ben


    Quote Originally Posted by ChasT View Post
    PrefDoc b129 is the one to use, there was a bug in b125 that affected the Treo 700p
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    There is a point where instability begins - around 4 to 5mb; much lower than that it is reset city, just waiting to happen. Not necessarily should you delete, you need to look at moving things to your SD card - a third party launcher will help you a lot. ZLauncher is the big guy on the block and will give you the opportunity to customize as much as you wish.

    Ben
    Thanks Ben! I am guessing I can move applications to the card also freeing up memory. Is that what you are saying. I know that at about 5 MB, anytime I have an alert blinking, I can not use my bluetooth and when I try to make a call, it often reboots the Treo.

    Sgt Paul
  15. #15  
    Darn, I never saw that - I just enabled it without reading its title. Now I am exchanging twice. Oh, well. I will disable it in Butler and see what happens.

    Thanks!

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by ChasT View Post
    Cure1 in PreDoc is the Exchange Manager as well.

    Although I still use Butler, I switched off the Exchange Manager in it a long time ago when it appeared in PrefDoc
  16. #16  
    The more you put on the SD card the better off you are. The downside is launch time, especially with a big application such as AvantGo - I moved it all to the card and it takes forever to launch. It also takes a long time to launch if the data files are kept on the card. I quit using it because of that.

    In my situation, if I can live with the launch time and the application does have to be in the device's main memory, it is moved to the card. So yes, a third party launcher goes a long way to making things easier for you.

    Also remember, the base free memory is also very, very important as is the amount of db cache that is not fragmented. My suggestion would be to look at Preference Doctor or Butler and enable the Exchange Manager option and Preference Doctor look at the automatical handling of the db cache.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by logansar View Post
    Thanks Ben! I am guessing I can move applications to the card also freeing up memory. Is that what you are saying. I know that at about 5 MB, anytime I have an alert blinking, I can not use my bluetooth and when I try to make a call, it often reboots the Treo.

    Sgt Paul
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post

    Also remember, the base free memory is also very, very important as is the amount of db cache that is not fragmented. My suggestion would be to look at Preference Doctor or Butler and enable the Exchange Manager option and Preference Doctor look at the automatical handling of the db cache.

    Ben

    I do not see the Exchange manager on Butler... where doI look?
  18. #18  
    The latest beta release, 3.82 - that is what I am running and look under "Miscellaneous utilities."

    I sent Rob an email and he stated the Exchange Manager clean up routines are the same in both Preference Doctor and Butler with the exception of the "notification" flag that is within Butler. Based on that, I have Butler only set to NAG and Preference Doctor doing the Exchange Manager and db cache management. Ben
  19.    #19  
    Well after reading all the post I started to look at what i really had... I discovered that I had old Firmware 1.15 instead of 1.17. Remember seeing the patch but i hate messing with something that is working correctly. It seems one of the improvements in 1.17 was memory handling. Second the topic of Butler came up with its ability to handle memory and I found that I had an old copy of that also...

    So I spent 4 hours last night upgrading the firmware, and reloading and updating software... Where I was bouncing around 5 Meg of available memory prior to upgrades, I now sit at 14.5 Meg of available memory. Big improvement. No I will look into moving applications to the SD card to manage even more memory.

    Thanks for the great information!!

    All is well in my world once again....

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...forcrplate.jpg
  20. #20  
    bclinger - The wiki article at http://wiki.treocentral.com/index.ph...ailable_Memory has been updated per the comments below.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    The discussion of Preference Doctor - it does not "eliminate" soft resets, it makes it easier to recover from soft resets that incur the loss of saved preferences should they become corrupt or deleted and in most cases restores them with little if any intervention due to its ability to save preferences.

    Preference Doctor has also been updated to manage the cache following user defined available minimum memory level settings.

    Butler handles the Exchange Manager routine, not Preference Doctor.
    I think because PrefDoctor has it's Cure 1 and Cure 3 functions, it's fair to say it helps eliminate soft resets. As you said, Cure 2 makes it easier to recover saved prefs if they get corrupted.

    As ChasT said, both Butler and PrefDoctor do the Exchange manager stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Fewer people experience problems with MemoryInfo than dbCache Tool ... anyway, I would like to see more discussion of what happens when a backup is done with a device based application, what happens to the db cache, how messed up it gets, the amount that is often left available after a backup is done. Then a discussion of those backup applications that specifically address the db cache issue and handling of alarms, et cetera.
    That's a good point. Now that PrefDoctor cache clearing seems to have been proven, I removed nearly all the dbCacheTool stuff (actually moved it to a separate "dbCacheTool" entry) and replaced it with new PrefDoctor material. I left MemoryInfo since that's the free alternative. I added a little on what Resco Backup does based on what I could get from the online doc.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    Then throw in a bit more about third party launchers, the cautions - the basic statement you have is excellent, just a bit about more about what one will likely gain when looking at the various applications available - you would not comparing which is best, just what you get with each application. Specifically not everyone needs the over all power of ZLauncher, for most people a simple launcher fits the bill.
    Wrote a new article (and linked from this one) to talk about how to run apps from an SD card using the built-in launcher, Initiate, LauncherX, PowerRun, and zLauncher.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger View Post
    As for the "out of memory," you mention the need for a soft reset; actually just clearing the db cache with a memory management program such as dbCache Tools or MemoryInfo will get it going most of the time.
    Added comments where PrefDoctor and MemoryInfo are first mentioned
    Palm Pilot-->Handspring Visor-->Treo 300-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700p+E62-->Treo700p+Curve (8300)-->Curve (8330)
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