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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Simple questions for Palm:

    1. Is the 650 the last GSM/POS phone?
    2. Is it the last phone that Palm will sell direct?
    3. Is it the last unlocked phone that Palm will sell?
    4. Will there ever be a UMTS/POS phone?
    5. Will there ever be an unlocked 750?
    6. Is the 700p the last POS phone?


    Yes answers to 1, 2, 3, and 6 and no to 4 and 5 are consistent with the leaks but not with a plan to improve POS. I hope I have it wrong but I doubt it.
    What I think:

    1. Yes, in a sense. The 680 is the same thing(or maybe even a bit less) in another package IMO.

    2. Who knows, they never tell us anything until the last minute.

    3. See number 2.

    4. No, they've already shown us they've moved to WM. Plus I hear Garnet can't support it anyway, big surprise there.

    5. See number 2.

    6. The last updated Palm OS phone? Yes.

    You are waiting for Palm to remember it's Palm OS customers in a timely manner. Forget it! Get something else and quit waiting on Palm cause they are taking their sweet time, and/or never will go back to the Palm OS.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    ..........Palm owes us nothing. Folks here need to get over themselves.

    My $.02.
    Nor do we expect more than fair dealing. Palm consistently lets us down in that department.
  3. #63  
    Maybe it is cheaper for them to use WM5 than regenerate new palm OS.

    the risk here: palm will lose its comparative advantage.

    It is a big bet for them. Leaving current loyal customers and try to replace them with a new basket of new customers
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    ............You are waiting for Palm to remember it's Palm OS customers in a timely manner. Forget it! Get something else and quit waiting on Palm cause they are taking their sweet time, and/or never will go back to the Palm OS.
    I want GSM and POS. I have that on the 650. I would like an upgrade but do not expect one on any future Palm product. Palm either cannot or will not deliver. I think that is as much of a loss to Palm as to their customers; I seem to be in the minority.

    I want UMTS. I do not expect that on a POS product. However, since Cingular and T-Mobile have yet to build out coverage, I cannot get UMTS from anyone else either.

    I do not want WM. It seems clear that I will not be able to get UMTS any other way.

    While I might buy a Palm product that met my requirements, I do not expect one and I am not "waiting" for them. I am waiting for Cingular.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by esatyawan View Post
    Maybe it is cheaper for them to use WM5 than regenerate new palm OS.

    the risk here: palm will lose its comparative advantage.

    It is a big bet for them. Leaving current loyal customers and try to replace them with a new basket of new customers
    I agree with you. However, there seems to be little support for POS on TC. Perhaps they are right.
  6. DHart's Avatar
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    #66  
    I believe that Palm's is marketing direction is NOT "Let's make the next model the bleeding edge" like many of us here would like. I believe their marketing direction is like most companies - Create the product that you can create with what you have to work with that will generate the most sales until you are in a better position to create a new product that will generate even more sales. Again, I think Palm's marketing is determined by the fact that they do not have the ability to deliver an updated multi-tasking POS and they are dancing as fast as they can to stay in the game until they can deliver a new POS (Linux or whatever).

    Their marketing is most definitely not designed specifically to please the TC crowd. Diva, I respect your opinions greatly and agree with many of them. But by delivering the 680 to the masses (if there is such a model), they will more than offset the loss of sales of frustrated bleeding edgers that move in new directions. The danger they face because of their aging OS predicament is that the Treo will become passe in the eyes of that mass audience they are pursuing because the Treo will lose the its prestige factor because it no longer has bleeding edge models. Kind of a catch-22 here.

    How many cliches can we use here? Palm is walking a fine line. Their dancing as fast as they can hoping they don't get the hook.
  7. #67  
    I don't know if people realize that making a Treo with the PalmOS is cheaper because Palm has an agreement with Access where the license fees will be lowered because they are working together in the development of the new Linux OS. Got it?

    Al
  8. #68  
    Has it occured to anyone that Palm might be making a smart business decision here... Maybe there really is more money to be made by focusing on the "average user" rather than the "power user." It sounds like most people here think the two are one and the same, but I don't think that is the case. Like it was stated before most users are able to do everying they want to with the 650 and are looking forward to getting rid of some of the unecessary features that increase the cost of the phone.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    .........Their marketing is most definitely not designed specifically to please the TC crowd. Diva, I respect your opinions greatly and agree with many of them. But by delivering the 680 to the masses (if there is such a model), they will more than offset the loss of sales of frustrated bleeding edgers that move in new directions. The danger they face because of their aging OS predicament is that the Treo will become passe in the eyes of that mass audience they are pursuing because the Treo will lose the its prestige factor because it no longer has bleeding edge models. Kind of a catch-22 here. .............
    Perhaps. However, I think that the dilemma is much starker than you paint it. Such money as they have made in the past they have made because they sold solutions where everyone else was selling hardware and could, therefore, command higher margins. The path that they are on now is hardly reversible and ends up with a commodity product, with no cachet, brand loyalty, franchise, or other competitive advantage, in a cut-throat market place. "I lose money on every suit but I make it up in volume."

    The board had better be looking for a buyer and employees should update their resumes.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/25/2006 at 09:55 AM.
  10. sindu's Avatar
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    #70  
    I for one will buy the T680... hell I will buy any Palm OS even it is the same function as my T650 as long as their slimmer and no antenna. I am quiet content with my software side of my T650 but not the hardware side.
    Need WIFI, 3.5G, slim and light form factor for Treo to win me back from Samsung i600 !!!!!
  11. #71  
    Has it occured to anyone that Palm might be making a smart business decision here... Maybe there really is more money to be made by focusing on the "average user" rather than the "power user." It sounds like most people here think the two are one and the same, but I don't think that is the case. Like it was stated before most users are able to do everying they want to with the 650 and are looking forward to getting rid of some of the unecessary features that increase the cost of the phone.
    Best point yet (in a really good slew of them in this thread).
    Palm did the same thing with the Tungsten E, E2, Zire, Z21, and until the ceiling hits $300, its a stragety that seems to work well.

    If Palm could pull off a true 'halo' model with the PalmOS (think how they tried to do with the LifeDrive, only more stable), that would get people in, but sell the 680s, and Z22s a lot better than not having that to the mainstream customer.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  12. DHart's Avatar
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    #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    Perhaps. However, I think that the dilemma is much starker than you paint it. Such money as they have made in the past they have made because they sold solutions where everyone else was selling hardware and could, therefore, command higher margins. The path that they are on now is hardly reversible and ends up with a commodity product, with no cachet, brand loyalty, franchise, or other competitive advantage, in a cut-throat market place. "I lose money on every suit but I make it up in volume."

    The board had better be looking for a buyer and employees should update their resumes.
    I think I painted it exactly right. Read the rest of my post - "They are walking a fine line....They are dancing as fast as they can hoping they don't get the hook."

    And Palm's predicament certainly is reversible. If they announce a new multitasking Linux based Palm OS next spring with new bleeding edge features, bleeding edgers (here and elsewhere) will begin panting wanting to buy it. I have no clue whether next spring is realistic or not.

    The trick for Palm is to stay in the game (financially and mind-share wise) until they can deliver a new model with a more capable OS. So we see a WM5 based Treo, a new run at Europe with new models aimed at that market, and a re-packaged 650 at a lower price point aimed at the mass market in the US. As I said before, given the circumstances, a pretty damned good marketing plan.
  13. DHart's Avatar
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by esatyawan View Post
    Maybe it is cheaper for them to use WM5 than regenerate new palm OS.

    the risk here: palm will lose its comparative advantage.

    It is a big bet for them. Leaving current loyal customers and try to replace them with a new basket of new customers
    I agree. It would be a big bet for them. And I think a fatal mistake. There are 2 distinct components to a smartphone - hardware layout and the OS. If they default the OS to a third party (ESPECIALLY Microsoft), they have lost the component that is the differentiator in their product.

    They become just another hardware design house (albeit with a heavy duty brand name). At that point, they are playing in a commodity market where they don't have the volume to succeed on a long term basis. In that market and despite the brand power they have, Mr. Murray's forecasts of failure begin to sound a lot more plausible I think.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray View Post
    I agree with you. However, there seems to be little support for POS on TC. Perhaps they are right.

    There was support, until they themselevs left the OS in the dust. We see the handwriting on the wall. Maybe many won't use something that will probably be discontinued soon. Unfortunately, that means going to WM5 for most people around here. Although I now am trying out Symbian.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk5 View Post
    Has it occured to anyone that Palm might be making a smart business decision here... Maybe there really is more money to be made by focusing on the "average user" rather than the "power user." It sounds like most people here think the two are one and the same, but I don't think that is the case. Like it was stated before most users are able to do everying they want to with the 650 and are looking forward to getting rid of some of the unecessary features that increase the cost of the phone.
    Yes, but 680 sounds like an upgrade to the 650. At least rename it. It may stop some of the confusion.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Yes, but 680 sounds like an upgrade to the 650. At least rename it. It may stop some of the confusion.
    Well, it is difficult to compare hardware (650) to vaporware but it does not sound like an "upgrade" to me. In what respect is it an upgrade?
  17. #77  
    The shame of it is, that the 700p; if it has the 750's radio (i.e., quad band GSM, tri band UMTS) is the phone I want.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by stoobie-doo View Post
    The shame of it is, that the 700p; if it has the 750's radio (i.e., quad band GSM, tri band UMTS) is the phone I want.
    One can have EVDO and POS, i.e., 700p. One cannot have UMTS/HSDPA and POS. It is not even clear that one can have UMTS/HSDPA in the US. That is what all this angst is about.

    Palm is limited in its desire or ability to deliver all the combinations of radio and operating system that one might want.
    Last edited by whmurray; 09/25/2006 at 04:21 PM.
  19. #79  
    I mean when people hear a higher number, they think upgrade.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I mean when people hear a higher number, they think upgrade.
    Oh! "Sounds like an upgrade." I hope that most consumers compare the cost, quality, and function of the "awesome" 650 before buying any other phone product.
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