View Poll Results: Best 2GB SD format for FAT32 Treo 650?

Voters
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  • FAT32, 16K

    2 33.33%
  • FAT, 32K

    0 0%
  • FAT, 16K

    4 66.67%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1.    #1  
    I just updated my unlocked GSM Treo 650 to the custom FAT32 1.20 version. I noticed that syncing files to my 2GB SD card seemed to take a lot longer, so I decided to read up and play around with the SD formatting. Here are my conclusions for a new OCZ 2GB 150X SD card (OCZSD150-2GB):

    Problem #1 & Solution:
    First of all, every time I tried to format the card WITHOUT quickformat in a Windows XP cmd window, it would mark half the space as bad, no matter what other options I'd use:
    Code:
    C:\>format w:
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    Verifying 1962M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Volume label (11 characters, ENTER for none)?
    Format complete.
    
    2,053,767,168 bytes total disk space.
    1,028,919,296 bytes in bad sectors.
    1,024,843,776 bytes available on disk.
    
            4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
          250,206 allocation units available on disk.
    
               32 bits in each FAT entry.
    
    Volume Serial Number is 2493-2A71
    Then when I would reformat it with the Treo 650, "chkdsk w:" would give me the following:
    Code:
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    Volume CARD created 9/22/06 11:16 AM
    Volume Serial Number is 1234-5678
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,053,763,072 bytes total disk space.
            4,096 bytes in 1 hidden files.
            8,192 bytes in 2 folders.
    2,053,746,688 bytes available on disk.
    
            4,096 bytes in each allocation unit.
          501,407 total allocation units on disk.
          501,403 allocation units available on disk.
    Someone else on another seemed to encounter the same problem with Windows formatting. Like them, I started using the "/q" quickformat selection, and it got rid of the problem, though I'm not sure why.
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /fs:FAT /v:Treo650SD2G /q /a:32k
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    The new file system is FAT.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Format complete.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    
               16 bits in each FAT entry.
    
    Volume Serial Number is 2883-4D16
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 11:28 AM
    Volume Serial Number is 2883-4D16
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 total allocation units on disk.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    Problem #2 & Solution:
    Using FAT32 with a 32K cluster doesn't work on this 2GB SD card. I guess it isn't big enough, at least according to Windows:
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /fs:FAT32 /v:Treo650SD2G /q /a:32K
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    The new file system is FAT32.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    The specified cluster size is too big for FAT32.
    So the choice for 2GB cards seems to be between FAT32 with 16K, versus FAT with 32K. I formatted both separately, chkdsk them, then copied the same files in each case and chkdsk again. Results:
    FAT32 with 16K:
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /fs:FAT32 /v:Treo650SD2G /q /a:16K
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    The new file system is FAT32.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Format complete.
    
    2,056,765,440 bytes total disk space.
    2,056,749,056 bytes available on disk.
    
           16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
          125,534 allocation units available on disk.
    
               32 bits in each FAT entry.
    
    Volume Serial Number is DC31-000E
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 11:33 AM
    Volume Serial Number is DC31-000E
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,056,765,440 bytes total disk space.
    2,056,749,056 bytes available on disk.
    
           16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
          125,535 total allocation units on disk.
          125,534 allocation units available on disk.
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 11:33 AM
    Volume Serial Number is DC31-000E
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,056,765,440 bytes total disk space.
           49,152 bytes in 3 hidden files.
          131,072 bytes in 8 folders.
       35,635,200 bytes in 157 files.
    2,020,933,632 bytes available on disk.
    
           16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
          125,535 total allocation units on disk.
          123,348 allocation units available on disk.
    FAT with 32K:
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /fs:FAT /V:Treo650SD2G /Q /A:32K
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    The new file system is FAT.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Format complete.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    
               16 bits in each FAT entry.
    
    Volume Serial Number is 6C30-413A
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 11:40 AM
    Volume Serial Number is 6C30-413A
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 total allocation units on disk.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 11:40 AM
    Volume Serial Number is 6C30-413A
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
           98,304 bytes in 3 hidden files.
          262,144 bytes in 8 folders.
       37,355,520 bytes in 157 files.
    2,019,786,752 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 total allocation units on disk.
           61,639 allocation units available on disk.
    So which is better? I'd assume FAT with 32K may be safer, because 2GB is usually considered too small for FAT32. I'd also assume FAT with 32K may be faster, since most of the files I'll be transferring are quite large (eBooks, pics, and tunes).

    On the other hand, is there some benefit to both the Treo 650 and its SD card being FAT32? After all, the Treo 650 makes it FAT32 by default. Then again, it only uses 4K, which I'm sure isn't optimal. And of course, I'm giving up some storage to use FAT32, but it's not very much, right?

    FAT32 with 16K? Or FAT with 32K? Or heck, maybe FAT with 16K. I'm not sure. What do you think? And are there speed tests I can do?
    Last edited by drewmie; 09/22/2006 at 01:23 PM.
  2.    #2  
    Ugh. I'm having problems with the card formatted this way. First, pTunes gave me errors when I try to sync music to the card. I opened the "Copy from PC" preferences on the Treo 650, and it didn't show the card's label. It just showed something like "Unnamed Card." Even if I selected it, it was back to "Internal Memory" when I went back in. So I checked the "Card Info," and it also didn't show the correct volume label. For some reason, it seems to be fine with reading the card, but writing to it gives problems.

    I'd previously formatted through command line (see above). So I tried formatting it through the Windows utility. Unfortunately (again), it formatted it as only 1GB unless I selected the quick format option.

    So, I downloaded the SD Association's SD Formatter (filename: "sdfv2000.exe"), but it didn't help. I got the same errors when syncing to Pocket Tunes.

    So I gave up and formatted with the Treo 650's "Card Info" utility. It formatted the full 2GB, recognized the volume name in both Card Info and Pocket Tunes, and synced and played my music just fine... but it's horribly slow!

    AARGH! What can I do? How can I get the Treo 650 to be happy with a 2GB card formatted better than the horribly slow FAT32 4k? Help!
  3.    #3  
    Aha! First, I found that even when I quickformatted with cmd using FAT32 4K (the same settings as the Palm 650 does), I still got the same problems. BUT, then I used "Rename" in the Treo 650's "Card Info" and it worked! So, I went back and formatted with cmd:
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /FS:FAT /V:Treo650SD2G /Q /A:32K
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    The new file system is FAT.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Format complete.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    
               16 bits in each FAT entry.
    
    Volume Serial Number is CC9F-53FB
    
    C:\>chkdsk w:
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    Volume TREO650SD2G created 9/22/06 5:48 PM
    Volume Serial Number is CC9F-53FB
    Windows is verifying files and folders...
    File and folder verification is complete.
    Windows has checked the file system and found no problems.
    
    2,057,502,720 bytes total disk space.
    2,057,502,720 bytes available on disk.
    
           32,768 bytes in each allocation unit.
           62,790 total allocation units on disk.
           62,790 allocation units available on disk.
    - Copied my card files back on the FAT with 32K card.
    - Inserted the card back into the Treo 650.
    - Selected "Card Info">"Rename Card" and named it the same "Treo650SD2G"
    - Card Info and Pocket Tunes now both recognize the card as labeled, and Pocket Tunes' "Copy from PC Prefs" keeps the setting to copy to the card.

    Woo hoo! Just a stupid labeling issue! (to self: Go drewmie, it's your birthday, go drewmie... )

    So I guess the question is the same. FAT32 16K? Or FAT 32K?
  4. #4  
    Help Please!!!!

    For the life of me I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong with my new Sandisk Ultra II 2GB card.

    1. I installed Card Reader 1.04 - http://palmgear.com/index.cfm?fuseac...&prodID=112451 on my Treo

    2. I then hooked up my Treo via hotsync to my pc

    3. My pc recognizes the card in the Treo.

    4. I used this command to format the card from a command line
    format w: /FS:FAT /V:Treo650SD2G /Q /A:16K

    The hard drive gets formatted and the screen shows this:

    format i: /fs:FAT32 /v:Treo650SD2G /q /a:16k
    Insert new disk for drive I:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT.
    The new file system is FAT32.
    QuickFormatting 1937M
    Initializing the File Allocation Table (FAT)...
    Format complete.

    2,030,206,976 bytes total disk space.
    2,030,190,592 bytes available on disk.

    16,384 bytes in each allocation unit.
    123,913 allocation units available on disk.

    32 bits in each FAT entry.

    Volume Serial Number is 58D6-40F8


    5. Now I go to my card info program on the Treo and it does not see the damn SD card.

    6. I pop the card out and back in and suddenly the Treo now sees the card. After a couple of seconds, the screen refreshes and says there is no card.

    7. I then tried to install a program on it and once I clicked on the .prc file on my pc, I then dragged it into the lower half of the screen to install it on the card. I then press the hotsync button and now a warning sign appears beside the .prc file - No card inserted or something to that effect.


    What am I doing wrong? How else am I supposed to format this card so that my Treo can see it?

    I have already modded my ROM to include support for FAT32 cards.

    This is my second SD card that is doing this. Surely I must be doing something wrong.....
    Unlocked Rogers GSM Treo 650, PalmOS V5.40017, Firmware: 01.71, Software: Treo650-1.20-ENA
    Modded and hacked! Custom ROM - removed RealPlayer, Todo, Tasks, Versamail, Tips, World Clock, Launcher. Added support for FAT32 SD cards.
    Software: PDAbs, Backup.NET, Uninstall Manager, Card Reader, FileZ, Power RUN, DateBk5, DocumentsToGo, HandZipper, Chatter, TakePhone, Technician, Voice Dial, TCPMP, SpashPhoto, Insaniquarium, Memory Master, Sol Free, Palma Sutra
  5.    #5  
    After formatting the card from the command line, put it in your Treo and go to "Card Info">"Rename Card." Name the card Treo650SD2G (or whatever you want up to eleven characters). For some reason, many apps in the Treo 650 don't recognize the card until you label it using the Treo's "Rename Card" function. Labeling in the command line doesn't seem to be enough.

    I hope that helps! It worked for me!
    Last edited by drewmie; 10/10/2006 at 05:59 PM.
  6.    #6  
    I just used VFSmark to test my OCZ 2GB 150X SD card (OCZSD150-2GB). Before testing, I quickformatted in the command line, copied all my same files to the card (should I have left it empty?), and renamed the card through the Palm "Card Info" utility. Here are the results (with the difference in parentheses):

    FAT32 16K format:
    Code:
    File Create:    117% (+2)
    File Delete:    87% (-4)
    File Write:    16% (0)
    File Read:    725% (0)
    File Seek:    2950% (0)
    DB Export:    80% (+1)
    DB Import:    556% (-13)
    Record Access:    1034% (+26)
    Resource Access:    1010% (+26)
    
    VFSMark:    730 (+4)
    FAT16 32K format:
    Code:
    File Create:    115% (-2)
    File Delete:    91% (+4)
    File Write:    16% (0)
    File Read:    725% (0)
    File Seek:    2950% (0)
    DB Export:    79% (-1)
    DB Import:    569% (+13)
    Record Access:    1005% (-26)
    Resource Access:    984% (-26)
    
    VFSMark:    726 (-4)
    I tested a couple of times, and FAT32 16K seems to have a narrow lead over FAT16 32K by 4 to 10 points.

    Also, I couldn't format the card with FAT32 32K, nor with FAT16 16K in the command line. It told me the cluster size was too big or too little.

    Not much difference, but I guess FAT32 16K wins for this 2GB card.
  7.    #7  
    Hmm, 4 out of 5 people voted for FAT 16K. But when I try to format my card with that through the command line, I get the message, "The specified cluster size is too small for FAT16/12." Here's everything:
    Code:
    C:\>format w: /fs:FAT /v:Treo650SD2G /q /a:16K
    Insert new disk for drive W:
    and press ENTER when ready...
    The type of the file system is FAT32.
    The new file system is FAT.
    QuickFormatting 1962M
    The specified cluster size is too small for FAT16/12.
    Am I doing something wrong? Or do I need to use a different utility?

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