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  1.    #1  
    Once we have the ability to be online and get phone calls at the same time (is this the fabled EVDV?) I think palm os will die.

    The core system of contacts, calender, tasks, notes, and email can all be done via a web browser good enough to statisfy most people.

    For one, I use Google Calender (where is that palm sync?), Google Contacts (ditto?), RememberTheMilk for tasks/notes, and Gmail.

    Little alarms, games, etc. are all nice, but I would have bought a 700p for them.

    All we need is a great internet connection a great browser and good integration between the two. That's it.

    I hope palm gives it to me, but if not here, it will be somewhere else.

    What do you think?
  2. #2  
    To me that is a "hell no, I'd rather use paper". OK, a bit dramatic :-D.

    Personally I do not wish to rely on a network to have the information I need. Web based stuff is OK for the ocassional remember Milk and dog birthday thing but not things that I can't afford to not have when I need to.

    I would be running Embedded WinXP if I wanted data loss }-)
  3. daver42's Avatar
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    #3  
    And what happens when you've got no signal? OTA syncing is the way to go, I believe. You can view your data from multiple devices including those devices that need to go offline from time to time.
  4. #4  
    My super secret stuff sits on my server and comes to my Treo over the air. I don't want my data sitting on Google's disks. If they don't have it they can't read it, encrypted or not.

    And sometimes, as someone mentioned, there is no data access.
  5. #5  
    Me thinks he doth need deeper thoughts...
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  6. #6  
    Even with all those Google tools my Exchange Server and Outllook can't be beat.
  7. pump142's Avatar
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    #7  
    with all the data leaks or "we dunno how it got stolen" going around, I think my data is safer on my hip
    M505 -> M515 -> Kyo6035 -> Kyo 7135 -> Treo 600 ->Treo 650 -> Treo 700P -> Treo 700 WX -> Samsung Saga VZW
  8. #8  
    That makes as much sense as using online to check the time.
  9. #9  
    This is one of those things like accessing productivity software over the web, or soccer becoming the new American pasttime that we have been hearing about for years and never seems to come to fruition...
  10. #10  
    No thanks. I prefer not to trust Google with my personal/professional information. Additionally, what if their server crashes then I do not have access to the information until they fix their problems...I'll pass.
  11. #11  
    If anything EVDV improves the utility of the built in handheld apps. We'll be able to access those apps while downloading large pages or large quantities of email. With the online model, I'm back to single tasking--if I'm reviewing my calendar online, I can't also be downloading something else. (Unless you posit running multiple instances of blazer at the same time. Maybe someday, but today's devices don't have the memory, network speed or screen space to be able to do that effectively.)
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  12. #12  
    1) They should have the next version of Palm OS well before EVDV comes to fruition.

    2) I'm also disgusted at the thought of storing all my info on the web. What happens when you're out of a coverage area? The Treo is still very useful with the radio turned off.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  13. #13  
    I couldn't imagine have to access the web for thing like contacts and calendar. some things I just want instantly.
  14.    #14  
    I would love the concept of a wonderful sync between local applications and servers so i can have it at any time. That would be great and a worthy goal.

    But what would users accept? If the connection is always on, having a multi-tab browser and your phone application as the only apps you need (ok I still need voice recorder and alarm) is ALL you need.

    I have been using remember the milk - an ajax application for task management. I use it at my office computer at work, my home computers (2), my laptop, and my treo. Today, I have to wait for the EVDO modem to connect, but once it connects, the speed is great. All those tasks that pop into your head as soon as you leave your computer are simple to type into the treo's blazer - accessing the rememberthemilk website.

    Gmail is no slouch when it comes to blazer access either. Great shortcut keys and uses the screen real estate well.

    I know there are dangers of giving your data to google, but that is not the point. A majority of users will be VERY happy with good phone + good browser + tiny utilities if you can be on the phone and browsing at the same time. Coverage is a must and a given (I am in nyc).

    I hear a lot of opposition to my position though. Is that personal or you think the masses will not be happy with the phone + browser only?
  15. daver42's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuty View Post
    I hear a lot of opposition to my position though. Is that personal or you think the masses will not be happy with the phone + browser only?
    It's not that we're completely opposed to your idea. It's just that our own viewpoints come from experience. It's my experience that servers crash and connections fail, among other things. Stuff like that happens all the time, especially when you need your data the most. That's why having a synced local copy works well. Relying solely on online-only data can spell disaster for many. Here's the rub: you can't always be online. There are places where cell phone use is absolutely prohibited, like during flight or in different parts of a hospital. Can you imagine not being able to check your schedule or tasks until *after* your 6 hour flight to an important work meeting?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    1) They should have the next version of Palm OS well before EVDV comes to fruition.
    Small correction here: for all intents and purposes, EVDV is dead. Sprint and Verizon were not interested and have gone with EvDO instead. We are at EvDO Rev 0 right now and will be Rev A starting end of '06 (wide release by summer '07) on Sprint.

    RevA will have mulitiple upload/download channels and should allow for simultaneous calls and data transmission. We'll find out in about 4 months. I expect a new WM5 device w/ "Crossbow" (WM5 2nd edition), EvDO Rev A by Spring.

    After that there is either Rev B for Verizon and/or Sprint but it's fairly certain now that Sprint is going WiMAX for their 4g network in late 2007, which is when you'll probably see "next gen" Palm OS (assuming everything goes right and they can keep up).
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/24/2006 at 12:54 PM.

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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post

    After that there is either Rev B for Verizon and/or Sprint but it's fairly certain now that Sprint is going WiMAX for their 4g network in late 2007, which is when you'll probably see "next gen" Palm OS (assuming everything goes right and they can keep up).

    Thanks for the correction. I thought I read somewhere that WiMax would be for "web devices" while upgraded versions of EVDO would continue to be the mode for "phones". It seems awfully silly to be deploying two technologies, unless I missed something.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuty View Post
    I know there are dangers of giving your data to google, but that is not the point. A majority of users will be VERY happy with good phone + good browser + tiny utilities if you can be on the phone and browsing at the same time. Coverage is a must and a given (I am in nyc).
    No, it's not a given, even in NYC. There are large swaths of area in the US and globally where there is no high speed data, and won't be for some time yet. And even as those areas finally do get deployed, it will still be years before coverage will be perfect. And this is all assuming that those areas EVER get covered.

    I hear a lot of opposition to my position though. Is that personal or you think the masses will not be happy with the phone + browser only?
    Neither. Your position is short-sighted, plain and simple. It puts too much faith on a continually changing wireless infrastructure that is not utility-grade, and will not be for some time, if ever.

    There is, first and foremost, the reliability argument. That's already been beaten to death, even though you seem to dismiss the argument. Rather than rehash it, I'll just reiterate that wireless data is far less reliable than you give it credit for.

    Aside from this is an equally important issue. Your original pronouncement is dangerously similar to those of the pundits of the mid to late '90s who gleefully predicted that the PC was dead. By 2002, we were all supposed to be using very cheap thin clients and "web appliances" and would not have a need for things like internal hard drives and powerful CPUs. All of the applications we would possibly ever need would be web-based, and online, and instead of one or two desktop computers and laptops, we'd be using dozens of little "embedded" systems for everything we do.

    See:
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,18...s/article.html

    Recognize anything familiar?

    Only now, it's 2006, and guess what? Not only are we still using PCs, but they're getting even MORE powerful and MORE centralized. Single core machines are giving way to multi-core, multi-CPU systems. We're close to breaking the Terrabyte barrier on personal, internal hard drives, and for those that need it now, RAIDs are an option. And while web applications are here to stay, they largely compliment and supplement the desktop applications that we still rely on heavily.

    The reason for this is exactly the same reason why your lofty goals of web-only mobile apps won't work: you think too highly of the infrastructure. Sure, high speed is great! But the reason high speed isn't such a hard thing to attain is because most users keep their data usage to short, brief bursts, leaving the majority of the bandwidth open for other people's short, brief bursts. Sure, there are the heavy users and heavy downloaders, but even in the world of wired networks, those power users tend to be outliers that are continually harrassed by network providers for their "excessive" usage.

    If ALL of our use were data intensive and required constant back-and-forth communication with no break, then the network would become far more unreliable and slower, and that broadband connection suddenly wouldn't seem so fast. This is especially true of wireless, where a lot has been promised to end users when in truth, the spectrum is scarce.

    The simple truth is that while web based and online apps look good on paper, they are impractical in practice. En masse, they take up too many resources and cause more problems than they solve. And so, we stick to the old and reliable: local applications, that use the network to transmit data only, but don't rely on the network on a full-time basis to operate.

    You might say that an easy answer to this problem is just more bandwidth! But, bandwidth costs money to deploy and maintain, and that cost ultimately gets passed on to the users. Once you pass on a price that the market cannot bear, the web apps, once again, become useless, because they are too expensive and no one wants to pay for them. Why would a user pay a premium for a bandwidth-hungry web app, when there's a perfectly good and perfectly reliable client-side app that does the job on the cheap, and requires less bandwith to do the same job?

    And that is why for now, and for the forseeable future, wireless power users will continue to use Smart Phones in a form similar to how they exist now. It requires a lot less in resources to send only brief text packets of e-mails, contacts and calendar updates to a local app, than is required to use a remote app, where all of the bandwidth must be used for the UI as it is for the actual data.

    And, this is not just about Palm. In fact, it's a given at this point that the next "Palm OS," if there is one, probably won't look very much like what we use now. Nonetheless, the smart phone concept will remain.
    Last edited by scaredpoet; 08/24/2006 at 03:21 PM. Reason: typos
    The Timeline:

    Palm Pilot Personal -> Palm IIIse -> Palm IIIc -> Qualcomm QCP-6035 -> Palm m505 -> Treo 300 -> Sony CLIE NZ-90 -> Palm Tungsten T3 -> Treo 650 -> Palm T|X -> Blackberry 7250 -> Blackberry 7130e -> Treo 700p -> Blackberry 8703e -> Treo 750
  19. #19  
    Very well written post. Kudos!
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    Thanks for the correction. I thought I read somewhere that WiMax would be for "web devices" while upgraded versions of EVDO would continue to be the mode for "phones". It seems awfully silly to be deploying two technologies, unless I missed something.
    I think that's actually mostly correct.

    But I think the plan might also be for theses newer "power phones" with WiMAX to be able to handle VOIP, hence the phone. In fact, Sprint is rumored to be releasing a hybrid wifi/1x (evdo?) phone sometime in the near future.

    The only reason I can think is that wimax is easier and cheaper for them to rollout and that it has a higher throughput compared to EvDO rev a (and maybe B which still needs to be finalized). Dunno though, speaking out my arse here.

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