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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung
    Did you convert your bathroom into a dark room, as so many other people I know have done?! Didn't all that chemical smell make you want to pass out? Maybe that's why you woke up to discover it was morning! You were actually passed out on the floor!
    Hehe... well, I know at least that I would look like an albino mole, all pasty and blinking. I would have to spray perfume on to mask the chemical smell if there wasn't time to shower before a date.

    Actually I was lucky, all through college and for about 5 years after (even while I had an apartment) I used a room in my parents basement which amounted to a 22 x 15 ft room, with a regular sink with running water, a 6' "dry sink," my equiptment, and access to a small loo (right next to the room). I kept a small 'fridge and home made drying rack, and painted the walls and ceiling "Eggplant Purple." My dad's wine cellar was right next to it, but I never took advantage of that perk, although I suspect my brothers did on occasion...


    The one time I did use a bathroom as a darkroom was when I was traveling with a 4x5 view camera and developed, then printed (albeit contact prints) some shots using a lightbulb!

    I went outside just now to take a few shots with my LG V, and will post what I feel are extraordinary results (for a cell 'phone) in a few minutes.
  2.    #22  
    Here is an unedited full size shot of a closeup of a flower using the macro setting on the LG VX-9800. I did took it on the Shade setting, even though it was bright open shade.
    Attached Images Attached Images
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    Here is an unedited full size shot of a closeup of a flower using the macro setting on the LG VX-9800. I did took it on the Shade setting, even though it was bright open shade.

    Wow, that's pretty darn good, especially from a cell phone with a macro function! Should I sell my expensive macro lenses to buy a flip phone instead? What would my clients think if they see me shooting their products for a catalog using a cell phone? Umm, client, please turn your head the other way for a second!

    You should see what I can do with my tiny pocket Canon SD 450 digital camera. The macro lens function is pretty much near 1:1 magnification (100% life size). I can pretty much fill up the entire frame of a quarter coin! I would post a sample pic, but in all honesty, have never posted a picture on this site before and don't know how. I know how to blog though! How do you post an imbedded jpeg image to a message? Thanks! Casey
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  4. #24  
    [QUOTE=CTreePO]Hehe... well, I know at least that I would look like an albino mole, all pasty and blinking. I would have to spray perfume on to mask the chemical smell if there wasn't time to shower before a date.


    In the old days, didn't the French never take showers, and would simply spray perfume on instead? Maybe you have French ancestry in you?! I'm sure your date was simply being kind!
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  5.    #25  
    [QUOTE=Casey Cheung]
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    Hehe... well, I know at least that I would look like an albino mole, all pasty and blinking. I would have to spray perfume on to mask the chemical smell if there wasn't time to shower before a date.

    In the old days, didn't the French never take showers, and would simply spray perfume on instead? Maybe you have French ancestry in you?! I'm sure your date was simply being kind!
    Mais oui... thank goodness he had bad sinuses! It wasn't until he sailed across the Atlantic ocean 10 years ago in a 50 ft sailboat that he got his sense of smell back (first noted when he started to smell the garbage they stored in the lifeboat!). We married while I was still working as a photographer, and he never said a word about my Eau de Stopbath!
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung
    How do you post an imbedded jpeg image to a message? Thanks! Casey
    (Using a PC) hit either "reply" or "Quote" and after typing in your reply scroll down and there is a box labled "Additional Options." Click --> Manage Attachments --> Browse --> Upload --> Close Window then post reply. If you make a mistake, this forum has the nice "edit your own post" feature.

    Does that work?
  7. #27  
    built in camera SW has a problem w/ auto focus...

    but i compare the treo 650 w/ 700p pictures,
    somwhat the 700p has problems adjusting w/ darker spots
    ____________________________________________
    Live Hard, Die Easy...
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by benn_monyo
    built in camera SW has a problem w/ auto focus...
    Aaah, makes sense. That must be why I got the following result (albeit with my LG, not the Treo):

    Good think I am <ahem> handy with my camera! <g>
    Attached Images Attached Images
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung
    Actually, I also have the Expo Disk too, in the 62mm filter size, I think. It's been sitting in one of my many camera bags collecting dust for the past few years. It's a shame, because it cost over $100, and I haven't bothered to use it. The reason I don't use the Expo Disk is because for the life of me, I can't figure out how to do a custom white balance when shooting with my studio flashes (eg: DynaLites and Photogenics). Whereas with a gray card, it's easy to take a reading and locking in the settings with my studio flashes. A gray card makes a huge improvement for color accuracy. Most people use the wrong method of simply setting white balance to "Auto WB", and not realizing you will get wrong and inconsistent colors at least half the time. In my experience, Auto White Balance setting on most digital cameras is only accurate when shooting in full sunlight, otherwise colors shift towards cool blue when shooting in outdoor shaded conditions. On the plus side for the Expo Disk, other friends I know who use it say it's convenient for doing on the run shooting, plus the fact the Expo Disk is very portable and can almost double as a lens cap.

    By the way, getting back to the Treo camera. If you really want to try to obtain better (more accurate) colors shooting with your Treo, I would offer this suggestion as a possibility:

    Buy an inexpensive 4x6" neutral gray card (Kodak brand). With a gray card (the gray side, not white side) facing towards the camera lens, use your left hand to insert the gray card into the bottom left corner of the frame (or top left corner) of whatever you are shooting. With your right hand holding the Treo, take the shot (which also includes the gray card at the bottom left corner of frame).

    After taking the shot, move the image to the SD card. Then copy and paste the image to your desktop computer (or laptop). Open Photoshop program and Choose "Levels". Click on "Set Gray Point". With the Eyedropper, click on the gray card that you included in the corner of the frame. This should instantly improve the colors of the image by removing whatever wrong color cast that exists in the image. For example, if the image is too yellow, this should improve the image by reducing the yellow cast. If the image is too cool blue, this should make it a little "warmer". As a last step before saving the corrected retouched image, I would crop out the bottom left portion of the frame that contains the gray card in the image. Or crop out the top corner portion if you placed the gray card there instead.

    By the way, if you choose to use the white side of the gray card, instead of the gray side, then click on "Set White Point" in Photoshop, instead of "Set Gray Point", and then follow the same steps. Personally, I think the gray side is better than the white side for determining white balance accuracy. This is because there are so many different shades of white, including different levels of reflectivity of white...this in turn makes it more difficult for white balance accuracy. Using the gray side is less prone to these problems, and hence is more accurate.

    Sorry for the long essay...some people might be interested.
    I have a Cybershot DSC H1 how do I know which lense will fit?

    Al
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo
    I have a Cybershot DSC H1 how do I know which lense will fit?

    Al
    I'm unsure about your question. Do you mean which Expo Disc will fit your Cybershot DSC H1 camera?

    The important thing is for the Wallace Expo Disc to be at least the size of the front glass element of your lens, or even slightly larger is okay too. As long as it is not smaller than the front lens, as this would be a problem.

    I did a quick check on your Sony camera, but could not find the filter size info for your model. It appears that your Sony camera is not capable of accepting filters? Even if this were true, it doesn't really matter, because you just simply get an Expo Disc that's at least equal or larger than the front glass element of your lens. For example, a 62mm or 67mm Wallace Expo Disc might do the trick. If in doubt, a little larger size is better. You only need to pull out the Expo Disk to place in front of your lens when you actually want to do a custom white balance before taking the shot, otherwise, you would not normally have the Expo Disk covering your lens.

    Here's some helpful info about the Expo Disc. Doing a Google search on Wallace Expo Disc will yield more info: http://goinside.com/03/11/expod.html

    By the way, the above instructions only work for cameras that can do custom white balance...this would not work on a Treo. The Treo is not a real camera...only a toy camera! Juuuuust my opinion!
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    Aaah, makes sense. That must be why I got the following result (albeit with my LG, not the Treo):

    Good think I am <ahem> handy with my camera! <g>
    Wow, that's certainly a difference in before and after shots! Looks like a whole lot of cropping is needed to get the hand out of the image though! Hyuck, hyuck!

    Maybe you can alternate by using your bare feet. I'm assuming your bare feet is roughly about the same skin tone as your hand? Occasionally, insert your hand for pictures, other times insert your bare feet in the picture to mix it up! Probably need to do some stretching exercises first to be able to get your foot up into the frame, or maybe take all shots lying on the ground to make it easier to get your foot in the frame?
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    Mais oui... thank goodness he had bad sinuses! It wasn't until he sailed across the Atlantic ocean 10 years ago in a 50 ft sailboat that he got his sense of smell back (first noted when he started to smell the garbage they stored in the lifeboat!). We married while I was still working as a photographer, and he never said a word about my Eau de Stopbath!

    I like happy endings...sounds like he's a keeper!
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    (Using a PC) hit either "reply" or "Quote" and after typing in your reply scroll down and there is a box labled "Additional Options." Click --> Manage Attachments --> Browse --> Upload --> Close Window then post reply. If you make a mistake, this forum has the nice "edit your own post" feature.

    Does that work?


    Here's a macro shot I took of a quarter coin. This was taken with my tiny pocket Canon SD 450 camera.

    Casey

    EDIT: Oh good! Thanks for the instructions. After 2 tries, I finally figured it out. See attached picture of the quarter coin I just shot. The image came straight out of the camera with zero post processing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung
    Maybe you can alternate by using your bare feet. I'm assuming your bare feet is roughly about the same skin tone as your hand? Occasionally, insert your hand for pictures, other times insert your bare feet in the picture to mix it up! Probably need to do some stretching exercises first to be able to get your foot up into the frame, or maybe take all shots lying on the ground to make it easier to get your foot in the frame?

    I think we've got something here... I like the new Ad campaign prospect:

    Photo Aerobics.

    Forget 'Keeping in Touch." Instead, "Keep in Shape" with your cell phone/camera/PDA.

    What a stitch!
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Cheung
    Here's a macro shot I took of a quarter coin. This was taken with my tiny pocket Canon SD 450 camera.

    Casey
    Wow, that is great for a pocket camera! This has been a very funny, interesting and informative thread; it is making me want to get back to my photography for real. It's only been, um, about 15 years... like I said earlier... pesky kids! <bg>

    Bur for now, I gotta get to my tasks du jour, painting walls and trim while the kids are away at camp.

    Thanks!

    Casey... may I keep you in mind if I have any photo tech questions in the future?
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by CTreePO
    Wow, that is great for a pocket camera! This has been a very funny, interesting and informative thread; it is making me want to get back to my photography for real. It's only been, um, about 15 years... like I said earlier... pesky kids! <bg>

    Bur for now, I gotta get to my tasks du jour, painting walls and trim while the kids are away at camp.

    Thanks!

    Casey... may I keep you in mind if I have any photo tech questions in the future?

    Glad you like the picture. I too was suprised at the quality of macro shooting with this tiny pocketable digital camera. Also, I really like this camera for its ability to shoot high quality .avi video clips, both at full motion 30 frames per second, and at high speed 60 frames per second. I get a kick out of shooting videos, because there's nothing better for recording live action for both audio and visual. I simply burn the .avi video files to CD, and pass out to friends.

    Yes, kids are pesky and get in the way of everything. Worse, kids give you less discretionary income for buying the really important stuff in life, such as new Treo models, cool digital cameras, upgraded computers, new zoom lenses, p@rn ... whoops, strike that last item! Maybe include drinking and leisure into the mix. I can't stand to have less of any of these vices in my life...hence no kids in the offing for me! I like kids best when they belong to other people!

    Oh yes, go ahead and ask questions in the future about camera/photography stuff, if I can help.
    Last edited by Casey Cheung; 07/21/2006 at 02:42 PM.
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  17. #37  
    These were all taken from the 700p camera: http://www.splashblog.com/centralpark/?albumid=All

    They look washed out, and blurry. Any suggestions. (It seems the pictures from the 650, even though it had a lower resolution, where much better)..

    (The camera I have with me, is the most useful camera.)
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandorr
    These were all taken from the 700p camera: http://www.splashblog.com/centralpark/?albumid=All

    They look washed out, and blurry. Any suggestions. (It seems the pictures from the 650, even though it had a lower resolution, where much better)..

    (The camera I have with me, is the most useful camera.)


    Brandorr,

    I'm not sure if your question was for me, or not. In any case, I'll throw in my .02 cents here.

    I've checked out the images from your blog site. The number one biggest problem with many of the images is the high contrast contained within the scenery. High contrast means bright backgrounds (sky, etc) combined with darker shaded areas in the foreground. This is an impossible situation for the Treo camera!!

    Here's an example of one of your high contrast images I'm referring to:

    http://www.splashblog.com/centralpar...preview=433543

    Using this image as an example, there is a huuuuuuge difference in exposure between the bright, bright sky in the distant background which takes up 1/3 of the image, versus the considerably darker shaded area in the foreground which takes up 2/3 of the image. This challenging high contrast image is actually a bit difficult even for a "real" pocket digital camera. A "toy" camera, such as from the Treo is simply impossible. There is at least between 2 to 3 "f" stop (aperture) difference between the two extremes of the bright sky versus the shaded area.

    For example, typically in full sunlight (eg: around 12:00-1:00pm noon) at ISO 100 speed, normal exposure would be approximately f8 at 1/250 sec. For a typical outdoor shaded area, it would be considerably less exposure, approximately 2 stops less light. How is a toy Treo camera suppose to resolve this large difference in exposure? Simply put, it can't! That's why you get the picture you got.

    Even worse, what is the Treo camera suppose to focus on? The Treo doesn't know whether to focus on the tall buildings in the far distant background, or to focus on the closer tree poles in the right corner of frame, or even to focus on the other trees more distant in the left side of frame. What's a poor Treo camera to do? You will probably end up getting nothing in focus that you were hoping for, but the Treo camera cannot do any better under the circumstances....again an impossible situation.

    As I had written in a previous reply, a Treo camera can only do a half-way decent job when shooting under evenly bright/sunlight conditions. The Treo camera needs lots of light, otherwise, you will probably get dark, blurry, grainy images. When shooting in low light, shutter speeds get very slow, and hence you will get a blurry out of focus image. Coupled with the fact the Treo has no flash and no ISO speed control, this makes the situation worse. I too have gotten plenty of dark and blurry images when experimenting with my 700p Treo camera while shooting under low light conditions. I found this to be normal, given all the many limitations of the Treo camera.

    By the way, if you are using the 2x telephoto setting on your Treo camera, you will make a poor lighting situation even worse, if you don't know this already. This is because switching to 2x telephoto means the effective "f" stop aperture setting of the Treo's camera (whatever that "f" stop value might be) will be stopped down even further (example: say from f4 to f5.6 or worse) thereby causing even worse underexposure. Furthermore, switching to telephoto setting increases the chance for "blurriness" because less light enters the lens thereby reducing the Treo's internal shutter speed to the point of getting motion blur from both the subject and/or hand-held shake.

    Motion blur results from two possible variables: 1) Subject movement, and 2) Person's ability to hand-hold the camera without motion/shaking. Ideally, a sufficiently fast shutter speed of (eg: between 1/60 to 1/250 sec or faster) is required to completely freeze motion both from the subject and from the holder of the camera. However, the Treo being a toy camera, is impossible to set shutter speeds, or even to raise the ISO speed to compensate for low ambient light shooting.

    In order to really do justice for the picture example given earlier, you would need a "real" camera, either digital or film, that has the ability to to shoot in complete manual exposure of setting both the "f" stop aperture and shutter speeds. Even better is the ability to change ISO speed settings, plus using a steady tripod to rest the camera on top to stop all potential motion blur from the camera's movement/shake.

    If you do have a "real" camera, then you would use the below camera settings as an example for taking a good scenery shot:

    1) Set camera to full Manual exposure mode (not Auto, Program, etc).

    2) Set camera to lowest ISO speed (for least grain/noise), and use a sturdy tripod to rest camera. Add sandbags to bottom of tripod legs for added stability if shooting in windy conditions.

    3) Set camera's focus point to whatever you want as the most important focus point (eg: buildings in the background, or the trees in the foreground), and then lock focus at this point--use manual focus instead of auto focus if this works better for you). For the previous picture example, I would probably have chosen the tall buildings in the background, therefore the buildings will be in sharp focus. Using a small aperture (eg: f11 to f16) would help to ensure that the foreground elements will also be in focus too from the extreme "depth-of-field". Also, using a wide angle lens (eg: between 15mm to 20mm focal length) will further give more added depth-of-field, whereby subjects in front of the focus point will be in focus, as well as subjects behind the focus point too.

    As a side note, generally you will get more depth of field from behind the intended focus point, and not as much from the front of the intended focus point. Therefore if you have say 4 focus points of interest in a straight line (eg: points A, B, C, D) with roughly equal distance apart from each other, you will want to focus at point "B" for optimal depth-of-field advantage. This entire explanation is what is meant by the term "depth-of-field". Furthermore, using a smaller aperture gives more depth of field, and using a wide(r) angle lens further provides more depth-of-field. Conversely, using wide open apertures of (eg: f2.8 to f4) provides much less depth-of-field, plus using a telephoto lens also gives less depth-of-field. This concept of less depth-of-field is usually referred to as "shallow" depth-of-field, and you usually see examples of this in Sports Illustrated swimwear model pictures, whereby the girl is perfectly in focus and the background is nearly completely out of focus and you can barely make out the pastel blues of the ocean and pastel greens of the flowers/trees in the distant background. Shooting with shallow depth of field in this style requires expensive 200mm to 300mm f2.8 telephoto lenses, and actually shooting wide open at f2.8 which gives you the "out of focus" and "shallow depth of field" effect in the background. These long and "fast" f2.8 telephoto lenses tend to cost between $2000 to $5000 and up, and can be mistaken for scud missile launchers if you're not careful. At Olympic sporting games, you will see lots of extra long and fast telephoto lenses that are somewhere between 500mm to 1000mm in focal length and cost as much as automobiles. With lenses this extra long, you would actually secure the tripod head onto the heavy lens, instead of the camera body!

    Another subject related to "depth of field" is "hyper focal" focusing. Here are a couple links on the subject of hyper-focal focusing:
    http://www.rule.com/techtip.cfm?techtipID=26
    http://www.xs4all.nl/~tomtiger/zenit...en10howto.html

    4) Set aperture at say around f11 to f16 (or smaller) for extreme depth of field for both foreground and background elements to be sharply in focus. In conjunction, set the corresponding shutter speed to a value that will compliment the given aperture setting, so as not to either underexpose or overexpose. In the case of extreme contrast scenery, it's pretty much impossible to have a perfect exposure for both the light and dark elements, therefore a compromise is the best solution. If in doubt, it's better to err towards having overall slight underexposure. This is because it's better to meter properly for the highlights of the subject, and let the shadow details fall where it may as secondary importance. It's very important not to blow out the bright highlights of the subject, whereby you get 255 exposure values in Photoshop. If you get pure white values of 255, there is absolutely no details in the image, and you are screwed. Hence you want to have the correct exposure values for the brightest parts of the scene. In the previous picture example, you would have the exposure set for the buildings in the distant background that's lit by the bright sky...therefore this element of the image will come out properly exposed. As for the darker portions of the image in the foreground, which are the trees and grass, this darker area can easily be brightened up using Photoshop's Curve and/or Levels functions. There is a lot of details in the shaded area of the image that can easily be brought out using Photoshop tools.

    5) Use a "graduated neutral density" filter in front of the lens. This is a special filter that nature photographers like to use. You would screw this filter into the front of the lens, and it can usually be rotated 360 degrees. Usually, half the filter would have a darker tint to it, and the other half would be lighter. You would usually rotate the filter so that the darker half portion would be where the bright sky is to make it darker. The lighter half of the filter would be at the bottom of the image where the darker part of the image is located, so as to keep the exposure unaffected. Using a graduated neutral density filter means you do not have to settle for a compromise in your exposure for taking high contrast scene pictures. This filter helps to get the correct exposure for both the highlight and shadow details of the overall image.

    6) "Bracket" your exposures by shooting the same scene at different exposure values in increments of (+) and (-) half a "f" stop in both directions from neutral, as determined by either the camera's built in exposure meter, or from an external exposure meter. For example, if the camera's built in meter (or an external meter) says the proper exposure for a given scenery is f8 at 1/250 sec, then shoot a frame at this setting, plus shoot a second frame at f6.7 at 1/250 sec, plus another at f5.6--going in this direction is towards overexposure. Going in the opposite direction from neutral, shoot a frame at f9.5, and another at f11--this direction is going towards underexposure.

    7) Lastly (well, actually, it's almost impossible to say lastly as everyone's photographic tastes are different and endless), I would open the images in Photoshop and choose the best one you like and make adjustments to image using Curve, Levels, Color correction, Cropping, and Sharpening.

    I'm sure I can write more, but it's getting late. Hopefully the above writings may be useful for those more adventurous in obtaining great scenic pictures. It does require more work. But then again, Ansel Adams would wait countless hours on a mountain top for the exact moment of last sunset light rays to shoot the few 1 or 2 perfect frames! All good images require patience and work! Have fun! -Casey
    Last edited by Casey Cheung; 07/24/2006 at 05:33 PM.
    Casey
    Sprint 755p, 700p, 650 - I am not a geek! Really!
  19. ayn
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    #39  
    Nice summary Casey, good to meet another photog on this board... Yeah the WB isn't accurate, but neither are most cameras's AWB... that's why ppl shoot raw... It's also pretty easy to correct the WB with channel mixer and by adjusting curves... I usually don't care enough to do that with my cameraphone pics though, and I like to upload directly from my Treo to Flickr... heh...
    Verizon Treo 700p w/ Martin Fields and Best Skin Ever film (sold)
  20. #40  
    I was very disappointed in my new Treo 700p's ability to take pictures indoors the first night I brought it home. Attached are the first 2 pictures I took with it (the wife and dog 1 & 2.jpg) as well as a pic I took at a concert the next night (toad the wet sprocket.jpg). I chalked up the poor image quality (and brownish hue) to low-light problems. However, yesterday, in broad daylight, I took this picture at a baseball game (indians game.jpg). Everything looks like it is through rose-colored glasses. While some might say it is good to look at things through such glasses, I find it very troubling that my pictures all look wrong. The "Sepia" is not turned on, nor have I installed any 3rd party software. The lens is clean. I even compared the camera images/screen side-by-side with my brother-in-law's Treo 650, and the screen colors/brightness look identical while the camera images all look rose-hued on my phone.

    Do I need to take the Treo back to Comp USA (just bought it 1 week ago), or do I call Palm?... I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance for your help!

    Noah
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