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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante
    He's saying, if POS is much better than WM5, then why is POS being dumped for ALP?
    That's pretty simple. Access no longer owns the Palm name so they cannot call it PalmOS anymore. PocketPC Phone Edition no longer exists its called WindowsMobile.

    In the end its what gets the job done for each user some can afford the Ferarri and some can't but those who own the Ferarri get bent over when it comes time to fix it, and its not cheap to do that. Enjoy.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Your own post shows your skewed numbers. What percentage of "Others" are you counting towards WM? Since MOTO is the only one shown that we know is WM and the percentage of WM for the Palm number isn't broken down, I see a 455K differenence between WM and POS, far from the 1.8 million you talk about. If you take away the 1 million Linux based phones from MOTO's number ( "Motorola, its position achieved primarily from shipments of more than a million Linux-based smart phones in China in the quarter"), the number gets even lower.
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    #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandorr
    Surur, what's you agenda?
    Perhaps is agenda is not looking at everything with rose-colored glasses?
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodGuy
    Your own post shows your skewed numbers. What percentage of "Others" are you counting towards WM? Since MOTO is the only one shown that we know is WM and the percentage of WM for the Palm number isn't broken down, I see a 455K differenence between WM and POS, far from the 1.8 million you talk about. If you take away the 1 million Linux based phones from MOTO's number ( "Motorola, its position achieved primarily from shipments of more than a million Linux-based smart phones in China in the quarter"), the number gets even lower.
    Goodguy, I had pegged you as a high-up in the development of Goodlink, but I am now concerned about your reading comprehension and maths skills.

    Reading, UK - Tuesday, 25 July 2006
    For immediate release
    Worldwide shipments of smart mobile devices rise 55% year-on-year in Q2 2006
    Handheld segment plummets 33%, overtaken by wireless handhelds for the first time
    Smart phone shipments increase by 75% compared to one year ago
    Nokia retains overall market lead, Motorola leapfrogs RIM, Sharp, Palm to take second
    Symbian leads in OS share, with 67%, a year-on-year rise, but a sequential fall
    Microsoft in second with share at 15%, ahead of RIM on 6%
    15%x 18944310= 2841646.5

    It is also clear, despite being an insider in one of the larger smartphone network infra-structure organizations, that you have not been briefed on the lay of the smartphone landscape. I will have to revise my opinion.

    Surur
  5. #145  
    So when will Palm actually deliver on bug fixes of the Treo 700p.
  6. #146  
    In the Enterprise arena there are really only two players. RIMM's Blackberry and Palm's Treo.

    RIMM's vertically integrated Blackberry solution, when you need mobile email only, is hard to beat.

    If on the other hand you need intelligent email attachment handling, and custom application support, the PalmOS Treo/Goodlink combination is hard to beat. (think laptop replacement)

    Microsoft's native Windows Mobile directpush solution is still lacking in many ways, especially for remote management of large fleets of devices.
  7. #147  
    "Contemporaneously with the license agreement, we entered into a co-development agreement with PalmSource to develop a next-generation Palm OS for use in future Palm products. PalmSource did not timely meet certain of the milestones under the co-development agreement, relieving us of our obligation to make minimum royalty payments under the license agreement after calendar year 2006. We are presently in negotiations with PalmSource to expand our development and distribution rights to the current version of the Palm OS. If we are unable to successfully conclude these negotiations, it may adversely affect our ability to develop and distribute new products based on a next-generation version of the Palm OS. Regardless, we will continue to release new products based on the current version of the Palm OS." (emph. added)

    (Original Source)

    (where it was found)

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  8. #148  
    I thought that the next version of PalmOS was going to be developed by Access and be a Linux core. http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I thought that the next version of PalmOS was going to be developed by Access and be a Linux core. http://www.access.co.jp/english/press/060214.html
    Well, there are two roadmaps that were thought to be open to Palm:

    1) The Access/Linux direction (ALP): A lot of speculation though has hinted at the somewhat obvious fact: linux OS's are huge in Asian countries. Access is mostly Asian focused themselves but wanted to break into the Linux handheld market. Palmsource was already working on linux hence why Access bought them plus name recognition (supposedly). Access also retains the name PalmSource and from Palm's annual statement is apparently whom Palm has to negotiate with.

    I'm not highly confident at all that we will ever see ALP over here in the States. Even engadget hinted at this when the said "...but the presence of the OS on a Haier phone does match up with what we've been predicting about the Asian focus for ALP." (source)

    or "...Preliminary plans seem to indicate that Palm will be testing out the new technology in the Asian market, working out the kinks and gauging the public's reaction" (source)

    A good summary of the ALP announcment comes from "the former Chief Competitive Officer and VP of Product Planning at Palm, VP of Strategic Marketing at PalmSource", Michael Mace

    2) Palm itself is "developing" a linux platform. This has also been highly speculative. Cnet I believe had a story (as well as other sites) that Palm was hiring a lot of Linux engineers to develop their own OS. But not really too much has come from this and people have hinted that it was development/research but not necessarily a full blown OS development project. All we know at this time about this project is nothing.

    Once again, I'd be surprised if they could pull such a feat and from the sounds of their Annunal Report (cited above), it sure doesn't sound like they have a linux OS of their own to launch but were instead relying on Access (PalmSource) for their next gen OS.

    That deal appears now to have soured though nothing is yet written in stone. But if Palm has to stick with Garnet for another year or two (!), that's not good news at all...

    Also, more related to this thread, I'm not sure what this means for updates to the 700P. I'm fairly positive PalmSource woudl be under contract to support it but being on bad terms with Palm probably does not bode well for regular users at all.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 07/30/2006 at 03:13 AM.

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  10.    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante
    He's saying, if POS is much better than WM5, then why is POS being dumped for ALP?
    WHy is WM5 being dumped for WM6 ?
  11.    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2006/r2006071.htm

    There you go.

    I am just a WM fan, and would have been a fan of the Palm Treo 700w if they did not cripple it with half the memory it needs.

    Surur
    Again those are hardware numbers.

    Let's look ats:

    http://www.tdgresearch.com/pdfs2006/...edMobileOS.pdf

    TDG’s latest report, Advanced Mobile Operating Systems: Analysis & Forecasts, finds that at year-end 2005 Symbian enjoyed a market share of 51%, followed by Linux (23%) and Microsoft’s mobile OS platforms (17%). Linux enjoyed a sizeable boost in shipments during the second half of 2005, something which very few forecasters were expecting but a trend which TDG believes will continue.
    and

    http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...&dist=morenews

    The current leader in mobile phone technology is UK-based Symbian with a 51% market share followed by Linux at 23% and Microsoft mobile OS at 17%
    .

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05...ech_interview/

    Linux has already been adopted on a big scale in Asia, he says, shipping on more smartphones than Microsoft, PalmOS and RIM combined.
    Even Nokia which accounts for more than half of all sales now has Linux devices .

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06...lysis/handheld.

    This starts to address awkward web browsing, a key weakness of the phone’s bid to be the ‘new notebook’, and it raises interesting questions about how much further Nokia and Apple could go in cooperating on the anti- Microsoft ecosystem, and how far Nokia is committing its future to Linux.
    I imagine nokia will do what all smart vendors do and "cover their bets" eventually having devices for every platform but licensing costs get real important when ya selling 30 million devices a year.
  12. #152  
    Jack, you cast doubt, but you propose no counter theory. Where are all these Linux phone, and where did they go? In general you can not add native software to those phones, only java apps, like any dumb phone, and the same java apps as the dumb phones. Maybe Canalys re-defined them out of existence?

    Surur
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Jack, you cast doubt, but you propose no counter theory. Where are all these Linux phone, and where did they go? In general you can not add native software to those phones, only java apps, like any dumb phone, and the same java apps as the dumb phones. Maybe Canalys re-defined them out of existence?

    Surur
    Try reading post #151. Pretty easy to figure out where all the Linux phones are. Much harder to figure out where all the WM5 phones are because their market share is so miniscule.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Try reading post #151. Pretty easy to figure out where all the Linux phones are. Much harder to figure out where all the WM5 phones are because their market share is so miniscule.
    ??????????????

    Surur
  15.    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Jack, you cast doubt, but you propose no counter theory. Where are all these Linux phone, and where did they go? In general you can not add native software to those phones, only java apps, like any dumb phone, and the same java apps as the dumb phones. Maybe Canalys re-defined them out of existence?
    Well we've had this discussion before where the various reporting groups will define smartphone to include or not include certain devices which is why I say ya can't use hardware sales to state OS licenses. To borrow from an old movie...."I don't need no stinkin theories", the numbers speak for themselves.

    With Linux, Palm will be able to maintain "the esssence of Palm" ... that which got the Palm Pilot the No. 15 spot on eWeek's "Top 25 Computing Products of last 25 Years". There will be no mandate to include this or that or to do things in a certain way

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=121174

    With an almost Zen like minimalism of both software and hardware complexity, the Palm Pilot was no more than users needed - and exactly what many wanted.
    I want the device I carry to meet that "zen like" mimimalism....I don't have time for all that other stuff.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    ??????????????

    Surur
    Again, try reading post #151. http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...&postcount=151
  17. #157  
    My definition of a smartphone includes at the very least being able to install native software. As wikipedia says "A key feature of a smartphone is that additional applications can be installed on the device." If we cant agree on this then we dont have any common ground at all.

    By that definition most Linux "smartphones" are not smartphones at all. Lets look at the haier N60. A client of Access, this is a cool Linux-based "smartphone". Yet you can only add Java MIDP based apps. Not cool.
    http://www.gsmarena.com/haier_n60-reviews-1192.php

    Thats the same capability as the Samsung e780 dumb phone. Or is that now a smartphone too?
    http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_e780-1617.php

    The fact is, mobile Linux is not yet a platform. No wonder Canalys did not count most of them.

    Surur
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Try reading post #151. Pretty easy to figure out where all the Linux phones are. Much harder to figure out where all the WM5 phones are because their market share is so miniscule.
    What about where are all the Palm OS phones?

    For eveyone else...

    Look comparing "world market share" to the US market share is kind of a waste of time (we buck every trend). Sure, symbian and linux are huge oversees,especially in China but what percantage is Linux in the US? Barely 1% maybe?

    TDG expects Microsoft to pass Linux eventually, by leveraging its OS products for both mobile phones and connected PDAs (Windows Smartphone and Pocket PC, respectively). TDG also expects Microsoft to effectively leverage tight integration with its other Windows OS products, in both the enterprise and "advanced consumer" markets, to come out on top of the advanced phone OS market by 2010 with a 29 percent share, followed by a 26 percent share for Linux, and a 22 percent share for Symbian.
    (source)

    Like I said earlier, even if that deal with PalmSource/Access doesn't fall through for the next gen OS (it's not looking good right now), I'd still be surpised to see any Linux/Palm device here in the US.

    I also agree with Sursur, most Linux phones are pretty lame with barely any real features. And sprint is crazy strict about Java applications (hence the lack of support on Treo's and PPCs from them).

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  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    WHy is WM5 being dumped for WM6 ?
    There's a difference between upgrading an OS, and completely switching OS's.

    WM5 to WM6 is like going from PalmOS4 to PalmOS5, it's just an upgrade of a previous OS, there's still the same basic functionality and similar interface that WM users are used to.

    PalmOS to ALP is like going from Win95 to Linux, it's something completely different. ALP isn't out yet, so we don't know how it'll compare to PalmOS, but I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot different from going from WM5 to WM6 because it's a whole new platform.

    The point was, if PalmOS is so much better than WM, then why isn't Palm going to stick with PalmOS? Why are we hearing talks about a completely new platform?
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    PalmOS is the past, not the future. The sooner everyone accepts this the better.

    Windows Mobile is an awesome platform, gaining wide acceptance, and getting better every day. It's far more flexible, has greater functionality, is a modern OS whereas PalmOS is not. Windows MObile has tremendous momentum moving forward.

    Palm is where Apple was about 5 years ago with OS 9. It just couldn't compete with Windows. Fortunately, MacOS X beats the shingles off Windows in terms of its architecture, and I'm hoping Palm is wise and adopts the same strategy of leapfrogging its competitors. If it doesn't, it's dead in the water.

    I have a 700p, but my first choice was the 700w because it's WM5 was far more elegant and usable -- it just made more sense to me. However, I SETTLED for the 700p because for the sake of Mac compatibility. PalmOS was good in its day, but that was ages ago. It's time to get with the program.

    The fact that PalmOS has to stop everything it's doing to regain a lost signal or log onto the internet tells me everything I need to know about its inner workings. We don't need a cooperatively multitasking OS that is held hostage when one program refuses to behave. Give me something modern any day.

    Having used a 700w from when it came out until the 700p was available on VZW I disagree with your assessment of WM.

    I found it very frustrating - multiple taps to do simple things such as turn on speaker phone or launch an app - why should I have to go to the file browser and then navigate folders to start an app that isn't on the drop down?

    The lack of memory also meant programs closed unexpectedly - multitasking is nice but a bit useless when open programs close to run explorer (which I liked - it had good support for frames and persistent cookies)

    Every few years I try the lastest version of WinCE (having done so since 1.0) and still find PalmOS better for small screen phones / pdas.
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