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  1. jbinbi's Avatar
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       #1  
    I have a 650 with vzw that is 1 year old. I use it about 15 min a day. I noticed when I got it that it would easily go somewhere between 48+ hours without me needed to charge it. I would normally charge every other day, and sometimes it went 2.5 days.

    Today I found the phone shut off, no batter, and I had charged it to 80% yesterday. I notice that at best I get 24 hours.

    Also, I get about 10 spam text messages a day. It seems every time I look at the phone to check something, I have a new spam message I need to delete. I know that this blinks the star to indicate a message, but I can't believe this is sucking up all the juice, or is it?

    Have others experienced the need to recharge more often after a year of useage, and does it make more sense to buy a new battery?
  2. #2  
    Do you have a program that checks for mail every so often that runs all the time? Might want to set the parameters to where it only checks several times a day. There have been reports of this lowering your battery life. btw, the treo 650 battery likes being charged up all the time and I have got up to 4 days on nominal use....if i'm not on the internet or watching tv.
  3. #3  
    15 minutes a day???
  4. #4  
    Expensive 15 minutes

    Which applications do you have running in the background? Is bluetooth on? There are many ways to suck battery from the device.


  5. #5  
    I've often heard that turning the phone off INCREASES battery use, as the Palm side is trying to use the phone and keeps trying continuously. Just something I've heard a few times in the past about people wondering why they turned off the phone at night to conserve battery and found it use significantly more.
  6. jbinbi's Avatar
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       #6  
    yup 15 minutes. (when i am travelling this probably goes up to 60 minutes of phone, and checking of email every hour). I don't have it set to get email at all, its done manually. I never turn the phone off. blue tooth is turned off.

    how do i find what apps are running in the background? I had toccer, but removed that app completely as I found it using tons of battery, but that isn't the case anymore.
  7. #7  
    It's the 15 min e-mail check I'll bet.

    A typical CDMA 650 should go about 4.5 days with np push / e-mail grab and say 20 minutes of phoen usage....a GSM version would go a week.

    Somewhere between once a month and once a quarter, let your treo battery run down to 0 and recharge.
  8. #8  
    I had my phone since 02/2005 and I still get about 3-4 days without a charge. Before I go like a week before charging.
  9. jbinbi's Avatar
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       #9  
    Jack, sorry to be confusing. I use the phone maybe 15 min a day. It does not check for email every 15 min. It never checks for email, only when I do it manually. I am not sure if I need a new battery after a year, or if some piece of SW is killing the battery. I was hoping there was some SW that would tell me what is running, else I guess I spend the $$ to get a new battery, and hope that solves it. If it doesn't, then something is causing the phone to go on.
  10. #10  
    Do you drain the think till it's dead periodically ?

    I originally did this quarterly but switched to monthly....still getting a week.

    Check Out Battery Doctor
  11. #11  
    Since I have to have my phone on all the time, I use BrightCam and it has increased my battery life at least 20%. I am getting two full days with moderate call and data usage, and a day and a half with heavier usage. Before BC, I was getting a day and a half with moderate use and barely one day with heavier usage.
    at&t iPhone3G
  12. #12  
    draining the battery to near zero (e.g. only charging the battery every 2 days) is the Worst thing you can do to the Treo's battery. It's great advice for Ni-Cad batteries, but the Treo uses Lithium Ion.

    The manual specifically says to keep the battery topped off as much as possible. Keep it plugged in whenever you're at your desk. If you spend a lot of time in your car, get a car charger. If nothing else charge it every night, not every 2 or 3 or 4.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  13. #13  
    Mine goes nowhere near 0 after a week...typically at worst 35%. I don't make an effort NOT to charge it....it will wind up in the car cradle every time I get in the car and it makes the desktop cradle normally twice a week for synching.....but I do want it to be able to go a week without a charge when in a pinch.

    You do NOT want to be getting it down to near 0 before every charge but you definitely do want to purposely drain it down to 0 periodically. How often to drain it depends on what expert you ask but I have seen no Li-Ion recommendations longer than 90 days nor less than 30 days. Most recommendations I see relative to PDA's say 90 days....Most laptops I read see say 30 days. Go 60 days if ya wanna split the difference.

    Here's a quote from my Li-Ion powered laptop manual:

    "Battery Information (page 3-10)

    "Battery Life may be shortened through improper maintenance. To optimize the battery life and improve its performance , fully discharge and recharge the battery at least once every 30 days."

    "Battery FAQ (page 3-12)

    Completely discharge and charge the battery at least once every 30 days or after about 20 partial discharges"
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 07/11/2006 at 05:51 PM.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE

    Here's a quote from my Li-Ion powered laptop manual:
    Try quoting from the Treo manual. It pretty specifically says not to let your Treo discharge fully. I think Palm probably knows best how to treat the Treo battery.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  15. #15  
    1) Discharge the battery to zero.
    2) Charge the battery to 100 per cent.
    3) Give the phone to a teenager and have them talk to someone for 1 hr straight. This will be no problem for a teenager. You might want to do this on a weekend if you have free weekends.
    4) Check your battery level and report the result to us here. I'd say if the battery level is below 50 per cent, you need a new battery.
    NiceGPSuperior1 is a free GPS program, now with the ability to save your map! Get more info here. It's free! If you like this app and want to encourage development, you can donate from the web page link.

    NiceDrudgeReader is a fast, simple reader for The Drudge Report. It is only $0.99, so check it out, too! More info here.

    Search for "Nice" in the app catalog to see all my apps.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Try quoting from the Treo manual. It pretty specifically says not to let your Treo discharge fully. I think Palm probably knows best how to treat the Treo battery.
    My Treo manual says nothing about "Battery Maintenance". All I have is routine care on page 35.

    Charge your Treo whenever you’re at your desk, or charge it overnight each day. The Li-Ion battery in your Treo has a much longer useful life when it is topped off frequently, versus charging it after it is fully drained.
    Not exactly an in depth analyis or coverage of the tange of topics. Nothing I said contradicts what's in Palm's Manual. The above is pretty much what everyone says...for routine usage. However routine usage is not maintenance. The thing with Lithium Ion is ya don't wanna see the charge level get below 10-20% too often. Yes, as Palm says you do not want it getting near to full drained. The battery literally isn't the same when this happens.

    But each time you charge your battery you also lose something....that is why you will often hear tech support tell you to do a full discharge to recalibrate the battery meter. People will be using thier Treo and have 35% left and then poof they dead...that happens cause meter isn't calibrated from losing just that little bit w/ each charge until it no longer knows where the "zero point" is.

    Each battery has about 600-800 charges in it ... after that, it's well near kaput. So you want to strike a balance between running it down below 20% and popping it on there every 4 hours or at 95%. One of the most common things said about Lithium Ion batteries is that they don't belong in laptops that are plugged in all the time.....they discharge to 98% and then the charging circuit bangs them up to 100%...this can happen several times a day making the battery useless in as short an interval as a year.

    Again, if ya call Palm Tech Support about a battery calibration issue or about the Treo not holding a charge, they will tell you to do a full discharge. There's nothing unique about the Lithium Ion battery in the Treo. It has the same characteriustics as every Lithium Ion battery and the procedure listed is what the battery manufacturer's recommend.

    The key is balance.....not letting it get down near 0 is NOT the same thing as topping it off 5 times a day. A "on the go" professional, the market that the Treo is primarily aimed may be running down the thing to 35% in a single day. This person needs to charge every day. But if ya Treo takes 3 calls and at the end of the work day is still at 89%, there is NO reason to charge....you WILL shorten the life of the battery unnecessarily by doing so.

    You can do what ya want....all I can say is, 18 months with this Treo and I can still easily go a week w/o a charge and battery at 35% worst case at the end of that week. I attribute that to using phone / data only when needed (not for entertainment), no push e-mail, frequent top offs (as recommended in the manual), with battery at no less than 60%, and proper periodic maintenance with full discharges to recalibrate the meter and sensing / protection circuitry which I have done about 6 times in 18 months. BTW...I still using original batteries in our 3 laptops....circa 1996, 2001 and 2006. The older 2 still last for > 2/3 their original stated hours.
  17. #17  
    Now there fellas.....

    From

    http://ipodbatteryfaq.com/

    Q: What is the best way to handle charging/discharging/storage of lithium ion batteries?

    A1: How to prolong lithium-based batteries

    A2: Lithium ion batteries are good for 300-500 charge/discharge cycles. A "charge/discharge" cycle generally consists of an extended charging period, and an extended discharging period. A quick charge, listening for 30 minutes, and charging again, for example, does not constitute a full "charge/discharge cycle", but could rather be considered a portion of one.

    Also, many, many factors affect how much you get out of each charge, as well as how long the battery will last overall. The main factors include charging patterns, the routine amount of discharge (i.e., Do you use it until it dies? Use it for an hour or two and recharge?), temperature, storage, usage frequency, etc. Lithium ion batteries do not take kindly to frequent full or complete discharges. When possible, the optimal usage pattern - for any lithium ion battery - is a partial discharge, followed by recharging. A partial discharge can be anything less than a full discharge. However, an occasional full discharge is desirable (e.g., once every 30 charges) to calibrate the battery. Lithium ion batteries do not significantly degrade, or develop "memory", even if charged at irregular intervals; irregular charging is acceptable. An iPod can also safely be attached to external power for extended periods of time. (For extremely extended periods of time, such as months, the battery will essentially be the same as if it were in "storage"; lithium ion batteries do not store well for extended periods of time at full charge. However, there is no way around this under these circumstances.) When possible, always use the AC adapter (or vehicle adapter) for extended charging, not a FireWire cable attached to a computer.

    It is generally recommended to store lithium ion batteries at about 40% charge. However, the iPod draws power even when it is off, meaning that it will soon deplete any charge that it has. If you will be storing your iPod for an extended period of time (i.e., weeks to months), it is recommended to store the unit in a cool place; charge level is unimportant, as the charge will be completely depleted after several days. The most harmful combination for storage is full charge at high temperature (i.e., in a hot car).

    For more information on rechargeable batteries in general, see:

    Battery University
    Batteries in a Portable World: A Handbook on Rechargeable Batteries for Non-Engineers
    How Batteries Work
    Lithium ion battery article at Wikipedia
    An overview of lithium ion battery technology
  18. #18  
    Jack:

    "The Li-Ion battery in your Treo has a much longer useful life when it is topped off frequently, versus charging it after it is fully drained. "

    That seems pretty clear to me. What part of "longer life" and "versus...fully drained" isn't clear?

    Regardless, whether you believe you should "recalibrate" the battery every month or so (which I believe is hogwash, btw) my original point stands: running the battery down frequently, by only charging it when the charge level gets very low, is the worst thing you can do to an LI battery. And bragging about how long one can go between charges [not saying you did that] only shows that one hasn't bothered to RTFM.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  19. #19  
    The statemment addresses routine every day use for which it is 100% true. But if you look at other similar devices using the same batteries, like the iPod, when a manual author spends more than one sentence on the topic, that rule is usually elaborated on. I for one don't accept the assumption that all there is to know about the technology can be summed up in one sentence. Neither does Palm Tech Support which echoes the Apple advice.

    1. Look at the source for the Ipod battery posted above your post....aside from the routine usage statement in which they exactly echo the Palm manual, they go on to elaborate. And Apple says the same thing as Palm and all other vendors do for routine care with Lithium Ion products. However, then they keep going after the first sentence going into more detail ... and the detail echoes exactly what other battery manufacturer and device vendor says.....at least those who bothered to go into more detail than one sentence.

    "When possible, the optimal usage pattern - for any lithium ion battery - is a partial discharge, followed by recharging. A partial discharge can be anything less than a full discharge. However, an occasional full discharge is desirable (e.g., once every 30 charges) to calibrate the battery."

    2. Both sources specifically state that there is a fixed number of charging cycles. So every charge shortens the life to some extent. Battery vednors state that that the effect on battery charging cycles is the relatively the same between 60 and 95%...it starts to drop off at 60 down to 20 or so and then it takes a nosedive. Three charges from 90 at 12 pm, 4 pom and 8 pm is worse than one charge from 70.....one charge from 20 @ midweek is way worse than 4 charges from 80 each nite.

    3. Battery calibration is important as it effects how the battery is charged. It obviously causes no significant harm or do you think that Apple is purposely stating that just so they can sell more replacement batteries ?

    Here's ya options:

    A. Base your decision on the one short sentence in the Palm manual.

    B. Base your decision on pages of detailed information published by various manufacturers using and manufacturing Lithium Ion batteries which say the exact same thing as the Palm Manual but go on to discuss more than routine daily usage and delve into actual battery maintenance.....not to mention that this same advice is also echoed by Palm Tech Support staff.

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