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  1. #141  
    2000 Man, your credibility seems to be on the line here. dcpmark asks a valid question which you should answer. This isn't about Jeff Gibson, this is about you.

    We've all shared our Speedy results with you, so now we would like to get yours. The entire thread is watching, you can't avoid it. If you continue avoiding it, I think you're finished here.
  2. #142  
    oh darn

    Don't tell me that Kid 2000 went awol on us....I don't think I could ever look at my 700p again if he went awol......

    Chuck
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    So what if I'm running a custom ROM on my 650? If you think that it makes that big of a difference, why aren't you running a custom ROM on your 700p?

    I've posted my benchmarks while you haven't. Still waiting for those pBench numbers. Palm developers agree that the 700p's data access speeds are much worse than those on the 650. I'm surprised that some people are having so much trouble comprehending that.
    Are you really missing the point that badly? While many admit perceiving (I use that term loosely) a slowdown in their 700p's after a few weeks of use, you insist on comparing apples to watermelons....

    ....Question: why haven't you posted your "pBench numbers" on a stock Treo 650 so there can be a real apples-to-apples comparison?? What would it take on your end? --> a hard reset perhaps so your 650 would be not so suped-up? I have made the assumption that running "custom ROMs" on your 650 will change overall performance numbers. Is this a correct assumption in any way? If so, step-up, strip it down, and do the apples-to-apples and get it out of the way man.
    Sprint Treo 600 (since October '03) --> PPC 6700 (exactly 29 days) --> Sprint Treo 600 --> Sprint Treo 700p --> BB Curve 8330.
  4. ink883's Avatar
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    #144  
    Hate to be a fly in the ointment, but Speedy doesn't test memory speed (data access).
    Speedy seems to only measure CPU speed. Thus, there will not be much of a difference between the 650 and 700. In fact, since the 700 cpu is slightly more advanced it would be normal to see a small performance gain on the 700. Think about the difference between CPU and Hard drive benchmarks.

    However, what Jeff Gibson and others are saying is that the 700 is slow to access data in memory. Pbench is the only benchmark I am aware of that measures data access speed. Thatís the measurement we are after, thatís what is causing the slow down, lags, and ptunes skipping.

    If you look at the numbers I posted earlier you will notice that I am comparing my stock 650 and 700 (no custom roms, no over-clocking). Data access 950 v. 543, thatís a 47% decease in access times. That is significant.

    For those of you that say your 700 is just as fast as your 650 play ptunes in the background and open other apps, try to surf the net, compose an email. Or you could use a benchmark program that measures data access speed and not CPU speed.

    If there is another benchmark program that does data access let me know and I would be more then happy to post comparison results.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  5. #145  
    I don't need any benchmark messurements to realize that the 700p is slower than the 650. There is no question about that for me. I don't understand what is all the fuss about proving it with benchmarks. I think we need a poll with the following:
    How is the overall speed of your Treo 700p?
    -Faster than my previous Treo 650
    -Slower than my Treo 650

    Al
  6. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883
    Hate to be a fly in the ointment, but Speedy doesn't test memory speed (data access). Speedy seems to only measure CPU speed. Thus, there will not be much of a difference between the 650 and 700.
    You are NOT being a fly in the ointment, Ink....you are being a mature individual raising a valid issue which affects many people. You are NOT, however, posting BS scores in an effort to prove your point while saying things like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    All of the benchmarks prove about a 50% decrease in speed compared to the Sprint 650. Speedy, pBench, VFSMark, TCPMP benchmark, etc. My tests were done on a bone-stock 700p with nothing installed. The 700p seems to slow down even more as the RAM fills up.

    pbench data access = 1384% (only 844% on the 700p)
    VFSMark = 1411 (only 988 on the 700p)
    speedy = 2055 (only 1531 on the 700p) with 0.38 0.17 0.24 0.79
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I do find it odd though that some are now accepting the fact that the 700p could possibly get any faster. Just a week ago, it was "lightning fast" compared to the 650. LOL
    That's because the 700p slows down after some use and over time. I'm not trying to make it a habit to target you personally in my responses...but you're making it to easy to volley against you. Everyone already knows the Treo 700p performs like an F1 out of the box and that the slowdown ocurrs later after some use. I've posted how fast I believe my 700p is and a few weeks later, I'm pissed because the same device with the same apps is about half as fast as it was. So while I think its important to be a "squeeky wheel" to get the appropriate level of attention (and hopefully response from Palm), restating the obvious or comparing apples to oranges (650 tweeked ROM versus straight 700p) is not proving anything.
    Sprint Treo 600 (since October '03) --> PPC 6700 (exactly 29 days) --> Sprint Treo 600 --> Sprint Treo 700p --> BB Curve 8330.
  8. #148  
    Mod Edit - If you want to continue posting here I suggest you leave other users out of your replies and stick to the subject of the Treo and only the Treo.

    You can consider this your one and only warning.
    Last edited by lgreenberg; 07/05/2006 at 07:23 PM.
  9. ink883's Avatar
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    #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownTreo600
    Everyone already knows the Treo 700p performs like an F1 out of the box and that the slowdown ocurrs later after some use. I've posted how fast I believe my 700p is and a few weeks later, I'm pissed because the same device with the same apps is about half as fast as it was.
    Yes, I think that is a big reason there is so much confusion on the matter. Also, people using the wrong measurement tools (Speedy, VFSMark), and others having to wade through seven pages posts.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883
    Hate to be a fly in the ointment, but Speedy doesn't test memory speed (data access).
    Speedy seems to only measure CPU speed. Thus, there will not be much of a difference between the 650 and 700. In fact, since the 700 cpu is slightly more advanced it would be normal to see a small performance gain on the 700. Think about the difference between CPU and Hard drive benchmarks.

    However, what Jeff Gibson and others are saying is that the 700 is slow to access data in memory. Pbench is the only benchmark I am aware of that measures data access speed. Thatís the measurement we are after, thatís what is causing the slow down, lags, and ptunes skipping.

    If you look at the numbers I posted earlier you will notice that I am comparing my stock 650 and 700 (no custom roms, no over-clocking). Data access 950 v. 543, thatís a 47% decease in access times. That is significant.

    For those of you that say your 700 is just as fast as your 650 play ptunes in the background and open other apps, try to surf the net, compose an email. Or you could use a benchmark program that measures data access speed and not CPU speed.

    If there is another benchmark program that does data access let me know and I would be more then happy to post comparison results.
    Hey Ink - no fly at all man, thanks for the apples-to-apples comparison if that is what you've done. That's all anyone is looking for is a little less sensationalism and a little more fact. I for one appreciate your opinion about the speed-measurement tools like Speedy comparing CPU to CPU versus other comparisons. Did not know that and I'm thankful for the info. At the end of the day, I am very happy with my upgrade from the Treo 600 but there is an obvious problem with the slowdowns experienced over time that subside after a soft-reset and then eventually re-occur after more use.
    Sprint Treo 600 (since October '03) --> PPC 6700 (exactly 29 days) --> Sprint Treo 600 --> Sprint Treo 700p --> BB Curve 8330.
  11. ink883's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Understood, but Kid 2000 started this by stating speedy numbers of 2055 for his 650 and I believe a number of 984 for the 700p.
    Yes, his numbers have always struck me as unusually high. Nevertheless, putting his numbers aside, he does not seem to far off as far as data access (my test showed a 43% decrease in that one score).

    Chuck, you seemed to notice a slight difference between the 650 and 700. I understand that you said a Ptunes update pretty much solved your issue. I am wondering if you had (or could) run pbench and could post if there is a significant (>20%) difference in data access scores. My concern is the possibility that there is a bad batch of memory on some treo 700s. That could explain why some people have issues and some donít.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
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    #152  
    Two more points:

    1) According to what I've read on this board, some people are not having the slowdowns, lagging, or even pTunes skipping. I've had mine since 5/27, and it is not any slower today than it was on 5/27, and I don't have long lags switching between apps or white screens of death. I do get pTunes skipping when I try to multitask, but it works perfectly when I leave it alone, with or without the screen on, leds blinking, etc. I don't have the slightest clue why some are having problems and others are not.

    2) It is quite possible that Palm intentionally changed the manner in which data is accessed on the 700p to alleviate the constant resetting and software conflict problems of the 650, and there may not be any "fix" coming as Palm opted for stability over speed.
  13. #153  
    FYI, I am one of those people that finds 700p slow in regular use (I don't listen to ptunes, tried to get it to work with .ogg stream to replace my satellite radio and then gave up). I find it slow (unresponsive) when it searches for network, I find it slow when it receives messages, I find it slow when using the browser (not complaining about the network), I find it not practical during the calls (sometimes after another person calls, I can't switch back to my first call).

    And as others pointed it out, I don't care about benchmarks. I wish the treo had the functionality of the treo and the speed of my startac (or even the last LG VX4400 I had). I also wish it was a more practical phone. I wish they had a Palm like Nokia communicators, or Verizon's "The V", where keyboard is inside the phone, and outside it looks and functions like a regular phone.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by ink883
    Yes, his numbers have always struck me as unusually high. Nevertheless, putting his numbers aside, he does not seem to far off as far as data access (my test showed a 43% decrease in that one score).

    Chuck, you seemed to notice a slight difference between the 650 and 700. I understand that you said a Ptunes update pretty much solved your issue. I am wondering if you had (or could) run pbench and could post if there is a significant (>20%) difference in data access scores. My concern is the possibility that there is a bad batch of memory on some treo 700s. That could explain why some people have issues and some donít.
    Hey ink883

    You have a link to an english version of pbench. I found a German version of pbench. It does me no good, as I do not fully comprehend German.

    Chuck
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    #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Hey ink883

    You have a link to an english version of pbench. I found a German version of pbench. It does me no good, as I do not fully comprehend German.

    Chuck
    Use the German version and at the title screen of the app you can change the language to english, look for a bunch of flags.

    Thanks for taking the time to do this.
    Visor --> Visor Platinum --> Treo 300 --> Treo 600 --> Treo 650 --> Treo 700p --> Treo 755p --> Treo 800w --> Palm Pre
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    oh darn

    Don't tell me that Kid 2000 went awol on us....I don't think I could ever look at my 700p again if he went awol......

    Chuck
    This isn't the first thread he went AWOL in today after being presented "proof" or legitamate findings...

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...d.php?t=119113
    Joshua Miller
    jemiller@jem.phoenix.az.us
  17. #157  
    Well it *is* the 4th of July after all, so the guy is allowed to take some time away from the computer!

    However, 2000 Man *did* get caught with his pants down, so it must not feel too good to show your face in a thread that you started based upon falsified information that you now can't backup after being asked, very publicly, several times by several people.

    This is where the men get separated from the boys. I for one appreciate the mature, adult nature of everyone else's posts who don't seem to take their Treo so personally. I would also like Palm to fix this issue, as it clearly exists for some people. I don't use pTunes -- I'm an iPod kinda guy -- but if I did and it routinely skipped on me, I'd be pretty mad about that. But, honestly, for what I do I haven't noticed any of this slowdown stuff, but I freely admit that I'm not a "power" user either.
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    #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    2000 Man, your credibility seems to be on the line here. dcpmark asks a valid question which you should answer. This isn't about Jeff Gibson, this is about you.

    We've all shared our Speedy results with you, so now we would like to get yours. The entire thread is watching, you can't avoid it. If you continue avoiding it, I think you're finished here.
    before people get too excited...It's obvious that speedy does NOT take data access into account because my speedy score has always shown a slightly faster score for my 700p against my 650. This really has nothing to do with 2000 man's complaints about unresponsiveness from the 700p. any ***** after running the tests find 1 MAJOR problem, and that is data access. this has been his point the whole time and he's been 100 percent right. SPEEDY DOES NOT TEST ALL THE PARAMETERS THAT PBENCH DOES, P E R I O D.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chazzan
    before people get too excited...It's obvious that speedy does NOT take data access into account because my speedy score has always shown a slightly faster score for my 700p against my 650. This really has nothing to do with 2000 man's complaints about unresponsiveness from the 700p. any ***** after running the tests find 1 MAJOR problem, and that is data access. this has been his point the whole time and he's been 100 percent right. SPEEDY DOES NOT TEST ALL THE PARAMETERS THAT PBENCH DOES, P E R I O D.
    If that's the case, 2000 Man shouldn't have any trouble sharing his Speedy scores then right, since they apparently don't prove anything... but yet he doesn't.
  20. Chazzan's Avatar
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    #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    If that's the case, 2000 Man shouldn't have any trouble sharing his Speedy scores then right, since they apparently don't prove anything... but yet he doesn't.
    Well...let me do something that perhaps he would not: revise what I said. If he posted speedy scores of a 650 stock that were around 1900 I'd say that he was lying and is not answering because he's been caught. But that is just not what is of consequnce here. The 700p IS SLOWER THAN THE 650, and we have to find out why, and we have to complain about. It really is ridiculous, and no matter how much one may love palm, it'll be something we look back on when the company's toast. I really could care less if he's lying, I KNOW MY 700P IS SLOWER THAN MY 650 AND I DON'T NEED ANYBODY ELSE'S BENCHMARK SCORES TO TELL ME THAT.
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