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  1.    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    Hey 200 Man, will you assemble a campaign and write a letter or somehow contact Palm to communicate the information that you've gathered?

    I think that would be a very useful thing for you to do.
    I've already informed them of the problem.

    With highly respected developers like Jeff Gibson agreeing with pBench that the 700p's data access scores are much slower than the 650's, it should be very easy for Palm to replicate the problem. Hopefully they will be able to find a fix.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by copernicus
    If it is true, and we get faster Treos, we will all have to break down and thank 2000 Man for it. Sprint can't take much more of this complaining either.
    Are you serious? Thank Kid 2000 for what? His incesant harping for numbers. His calling members of this forum names for disagreeing with his premise that every 700p is slower than a 650.

    When he did a pitifull non scientific test against his custom rom overclocked 650. You cannot get a non overclocked 650 to run his speedy number of 2050 by simply installing a magical custom rom.
    This would mean his custom rom somehow convinced his 650 processor to run somwhere between 468 to 507 mhz. It ain't gonna happen.

    I'm in favor of thanking someone who actually convinced Palm to fix something.

    What has Kid 2000 actually done toward this supposed fix. Nothing that I'm aware of except his rude child like unproffesionalism.

    Chuck
  3.    #123  
    Again, my pBench data access numbers support what Palm developers like Jeff Gibson have already found: the Treo 700p is much slower than the 650.

    Chuck, either post your pBench numbers or go away and hide with the rest of the trolls. We're all waiting for one of owners of a "magical" 700p's to sack up and post their pBench numbers. LOL
  4. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by dcpmark
    2000 Man, answer 1 question:

    Do you admit that your Speedy benchmarks are much faster than those for the 650 posted on Speedy's website?

    http://www.aldweb.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=6921

    It's a 'yes' or 'no' question....
    Still waiting.....
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Again, my pBench data access numbers support what Palm developers like Jeff Gibson have already found: the Treo 700p is much slower than the 650.

    Chuck, either post your pBench numbers or go away and hide with the rest of the trolls. We're all waiting for one of owners of a "magical" 700p's to sack up and post their pBench numbers. LOL
    Go away and hide from you? Don't make me laugh.

    I'll post my speedy screen grabs for my 650 and 700 if you post your speedy screen grabs.

    I am interested is seeing your speedy numbers for your 650.
    Post 1 screen grab showing 3 speedy tests and then tap the percent button on the lower right to show what mhz the test was run with another screen grab.

    indicate your agreement by saying yes or by posting the requested screen grabs.

    The 2 requested screen grabs will convince me that your 650 is not overclocked,

    Chuck
  6.    #126  
    Again, my pBench data access numbers support what Palm developers like Jeff Gibson have already found: the Treo 700p is much slower than the 650.

    Chuck, either post your pBench numbers or go away and hide with the rest of the trolls. We're all waiting for one of owners of a "magical" 700p's to sack up and post their pBench numbers. LOL

    The data access numbers seem to be the main indicator of performance. I've posted my pBench screenshots and am waiting for even a single 700p owner to do the same. If I still had a 700p, I'd be posting them myself.
  7. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    All of the benchmarks prove about a 50% decrease in speed compared to the Sprint 650. Speedy, pBench, VFSMark, TCPMP benchmark, etc. My tests were done on a bone-stock 700p with nothing installed. The 700p seems to slow down even more as the RAM fills up.

    pbench data access = 1384% (only 844% on the 700p)
    VFSMark = 1411 (only 988 on the 700p)
    speedy = 2055 (only 1531 on the 700p) with 0.38 0.17 0.24 0.79
    This was your first post in this thread. We know you are using a custom rom and overclocking it, even if you won't be a man and admit that your Speedy scores are much, much higher than Speedy's own reference website:

    http://www.aldweb.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=6921

    Therefore, all of your benchmark scores are meaningless.

    Chuck, PLEASE don't wait for him to post anything. If you have both a STOCK 650 and a STOCK 700p, please test post all your results from Speedy, pBench, and VFSMark. At least we'll have figures from someone trustworthy. Maybe then this discussion can move forward.
  8.    #128  
    Again, my 650 isn't overclocked but I am using a custom ROM. Why haven't any 700p owners posted their pBench numbers? I guess they think that Jeff Gibson is lying about the 650 being faster.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Again, my pBench data access numbers support what Palm developers like Jeff Gibson have already found: the Treo 700p is much slower than the 650.

    Chuck, either post your pBench numbers or go away and hide with the rest of the trolls. We're all waiting for one of owners of a "magical" 700p's to sack up and post their pBench numbers. LOL

    The data access numbers seem to be the main indicator of performance. I've posted my pBench screenshots and am waiting for even a single 700p owner to do the same. If I still had a 700p, I'd be posting them myself.
    Yup....

    Just as I suspected. You cannot disprove my theory that your 650 is overclocked.

    Just 2 little speedy screen grabs is all I asked for. It appears you cannot step up to the plate and back up claim that your 650 is not overclocked.

    Who needs to hide now?

    Again, you did a pitifull non scientific test with an unarmed 700p against your overckocked 650.

    I must say, I'm impressed with your lack of technical skills.

    This is suppose to support your claim that every 700p is slower than a 650. You do prove as I did, that a 700p is slower than a overclocked 650. At least I admitted that my 650 was overclocked and my 700p was only 25 percent slower than my overclocked 650.

    Chuck
  10.    #130  
    No pBench scores? Why am I not surprised. The troll calls Jeff Gibson a liar and refuses to back up his claim. Hmmm.

    I haven't overclocked my Treo since I got the AVC decoder for TCPMP. I used to overclock it to improve the playback of my AVC movies which had to use the ffmpeg decoder in the past.
  11.    #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    What I am finding is that database access times are significantly greater on the 700P than they are on the 650. This is causing slow downs in every application I have on the 700P. You can really see the impact if you use Palm File Browser. It takes forever to have the file actually written to the device.

    Jeff
    So the pBench data access scores show the same thing as the Palm File Browser? Good to know that pBench is a reliable benchmark.

    Palm! Why can't you fix the pathetic data access on the 700p?
  12. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I haven't overclocked my Treo since I got the AVC decoder for TCPMP.
    Fine. How do YOU explain why your Speedy 650 scores are so much higher then Speedy's own 650 reference scores:

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    speedy = 2055 (only 1531 on the 700p) with 0.38 0.17 0.24 0.79
    From Speedy's website:

    Treo 650 Palm 0.52 0.24 0.33 1.09

    http://www.aldweb.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=6921
  13.    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    The problem lies with the SLOW NVFS database access on the Treo 700P operating system.
    Let's hope this gets fixed soon. The 700p would be a really nice device if they can iron out the speed issues.
  14.    #134  
    dcpmark, are you calling Jeff Gibson a liar? Do you find it odd that he found the exact same problem on the 700p that I did?
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    dcpmark, are you calling Jeff Gibson a liar?
    Nope. Just you.

    Since I see you are paying attention again, do you admit that your 650 Speedy scores are much, much faster than Speedy's own reference 650 scores? If it is not due to overclocking, feel free to explain why your scores are so much higher.....
  16.    #136  
    I'm running my 650 overclocked at 850MHz. Happy now? LOL

    How is it that Jeff Gibson (one of the most respected Palm developers anywhere) found the exact same data access problems that I did? Could it be that we're both lying? Perhaps we're both correct and there actually is a problem with the database access times on the 700p? I wonder.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    No pBench scores? Why am I not surprised. The troll calls Jeff Gibson a liar and refuses to back up his claim. Hmmm.

    I haven't overclocked my Treo since I got the AVC decoder for TCPMP. I used to overclock it to improve the playback of my AVC movies which had to use the ffmpeg decoder in the past.
    Hey Kid 2000

    Here are my speedy screen grabs. I'm showing you mine, I guess you can't show me yours.

    The point of showing you any other data is meaningless and mute.

    The first 2 are the 650 and the last is the 700p.

    You will also note that my 650 does not have a custom rom and is running at the same exact speed of your number of 2055.....

    You should also note that my extremely slow 700p is only 25% slower than my overclocked 650. Just like yours....

    Chuck
    Attached Images Attached Images
  18.    #138  
    Still waiting for pBench results. Jeff Gibson and I have found the same problem on the 700p. It's the database access time which isn't measured by Speedy. Where or where are those "lightning fast" 700p pBench results?
  19. dcpmark's Avatar
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    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    How is it that Jeff Gibson (one of the most respected Palm developers anywhere) found the exact same data access problems that I did? Could it be that we're both lying? Perhaps we're both correct and there actually is a problem with the database access times on the 700p? I wonder.
    Unfortunately, Jeff Gibson never quantified for us what he meant what he meant by slow NVFS database access, did he. He certainly never mentioned that "All of the benchmarks prove about a 50% decrease in speed compared to the Sprint 650. Speedy, pBench, VFSMark, TCPMP benchmark, etc." as you did in your first post. When Jeff Gibson posts numbers I'll listen. Further, database access is but one measure of the speed of a device. Memory access, graphics, and calculations are also part of the measure of speed:

    "Here below is the table of results returned by Speedy, my award freeware benchmark application for Palm OS devices. Speedy performs three resource taking routines (Calculation, Memory and Graphics) to measure the real speed of PalmOS based devices."

    http://www.aldweb.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=6921

    Well, at least by showing you're a fraud we've been able so narrow the focus of the issue to just database access times.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Still waiting for pBench results. Jeff Gibson and I have found the same problem on the 700p. It's the database access time which isn't measured by Speedy. Where or where are those "lightning fast" 700p pBench results?
    Still waiting for you to disprove my theory of your overclocked 650. Where o where are those two tiny little speedy screen grabs of your overclocked 650? Am I being to demanding? Am I asking for something that is to excessive or impossible for you?

    And Please don't include Jeff Gibson in your fraud. I highly respect Jeff. You I do not.

    Why should or would I donate any more to you as far as data. You cannot donate to my request for two tiny little speedy screen grabs of your 650....

    If you want me to submit to your request, please submit to my request. Otherwise I am done wasting my time.

    You need to grasp the idea that I do not believe you on your premise that every 700p is 50% slower than a box stock 650. My speedy numbers clearly show your premise to be false.

    Chuck
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