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  1.    #1  
    My handset: Sprint Treo 700p with a few applications, using LauncherX. Everything working well except for the occasional lag between apps and a periodic problem with powering on (no response or slow response but this is intermittent).

    I read in a VolumeCare thread, here: http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...=116836&page=2 , jeff Gibson's comment that many handsets are coming from the factory without an HSSN (check your Phone INfo). He said this could cause reset problems and other glitches and that Palm has been replacing phones for this reason.

    I just talked to Sprint "advanced tech support" about this issue. The tech loooked at the "lab phone" and that also was missing the handset serial number in the Phone Info. Based upon the performance of the lab phone, she said this was not a problem. She seemed unfamiliar with what exactly the HSSN does. She also reported zero lag between applications but noted 1) there are no apps or databases on the lab phone, and 2) given the newness of the phone, there likely will be patches or updates in future.

    So, I am a bit confused. Does HSSN matter or not? Could it be impacting on my lagginess or trouble turning on in some instances? I'm more inclined to believe a respected third party developer than a Sprint tech rep in this case, but I don't know the mechanics or issues here.

    Do other Sprint 700p owners have an HSSN in their phone info? Are these the ones having zero problems with resets or lagginess?
  2. #2  
    I have a HSSN and am having a connection to data network issue ("Error:3000 Data service is unavailable in this area......."). Some lag issues. I can deal with the lag but not the Error:3000!
  3. #3  
    i think it matters the most for developers because they could use it for their licensing process
    Treoing & Loving it
  4. noodle's Avatar
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    #4  
    What is your software version under phone info?

    Mine is missing too!!!

    My software version is screwed up as well and I can update my PRL via *228

    Now my data won't connect either!
  5.    #5  
    For sake of completeness
    Sprint
    Software: -/1108/108-
    Hardware: blank
    PRL Rev: 20221
    PRI Checksum: 0xDD43
    HSSN: blank
    SID: 4195
  6. noodle's Avatar
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    #6  
    well, mine is the same, with -/2107/105-

    so it must not be limited to vzw...
  7. #7  
    All,

    The HSSN is the HandSpring Serial Number and it is suppoed to be burned into Firmware on every Treo (at least that has been the standard now for every Treo previous to the 700P). This is a standard means for uniquely identifying each Treo. If it is missing from your phone, any application that uses this information will no longer work correctly. In fact an application may crash becuase this information is missing. Never in the past has the HSSN been mising from a device. So very few developers will check for a NULL return value from the API call that returns this information since it has never returned a NULL value in the past. If this happens either a crash or memory corruption will occur. Memory corruption could take many forms.

    As for the LAG times between applications, this is a new bug that is in the Treo 700P's. This is caused by the new NVFS cache design. From everything I can tell, all database access is now about 10x slower on the 700P than the 650 family. There is a bug somewhere in the 700P's operating system that is causing thtis slowdown on access to heap storage when it lives on NVFS. I am sure we will see a ROM update soon to correct this bug.

    Another problem related to the HSSN is the ESN information. On Verizon phones, if an applicaiton attempts to get the ESN information via the supplied Palm API call, a crash will happen. Don't know if this is related the missing HSSN's or not. I do not have a Verizon 700P to test but VolumeCare was crashing on Verizon 700P's because of this issue prior to VolumeCare version 5.46.

    Jeff
  8. noodle's Avatar
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    #8  
    Thanks for the info jeff. That makes sense, palm, although is replacing my unit...
  9.    #9  
    Noodle: Palm is replacing solely due to missing HSSN? How did you accomplish this? My first issue is that Palm's site directs me to support with Sprint. And as I described, Sprint said this is not an issue and I really don't have anything to say in reply. Things are sailing along OK for the time being for me.
  10. noodle's Avatar
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    #10  
    No, not solely due to the missing HSSN...

    The Software verion is screwed up, the hardware version is blank, and the HS SN is blank.

    The phone will not program over the Air or update the PRL via *228 or *22899 and verizon's tech support couldn't solve the issue after many hard resets and tring to manually reprogram.

    Also my data connection is now not working.

    This may or may not all be connected to the missing HS SN. Others seem to have no problem on verizon using *228 to program the phone over the air.

    I don't know if this helps you, but yeah, I'm still waiting to see if an advanced replacement is approved or I have to return and repurchase...
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by aykim
    Noodle: Palm is replacing solely due to missing HSSN? How did you accomplish this? My first issue is that Palm's site directs me to support with Sprint. And as I described, Sprint said this is not an issue and I really don't have anything to say in reply. Things are sailing along OK for the time being for me.
    They should be replacing phones for this reason alone! This is a standard that is breaking many 3rd party applications. Palm lives by the vast community of 3rd party applications and they have broken a very important support feature. As you can also see from Noodle's post, other internal applications to the Treo depend on this internal information. Another issue is there is now no tracking for lost and stolen phones. With no internal serial number, it will be difficult to identify your phone if it is ever found since the sticker below the battery can be very easily removed.

    Beyond this, many users do not use HotSync ID's any longer. As an example, most Goodlink customers do not use a HotSync ID and in fact most companies do not even distribute a HotSync cable any longer to their users! So today developers use the HSSN as a way to identify the device for licensing purposes. This is the only stable identification for the device. ESN numbers are only valid and available if the phone radio is turned on. IMSI and IMEI numbers are only valid if there is a SIM card in the phone (GSM phones) and the radio is powered on.

    So the net-net is that Palm needs to provide a means to either reflash phones in the store or provide replacements for phones with missing HSSN numbers. Otherwise, they will be limiting the user's ability to successfully use their device they have purchased.

    Jeff
  12. noodle's Avatar
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    #12  
    Its funny you mention reflashing or replacing jeff, because orignially,

    verizon's data tech support told me to go to a verizon store to reflash it, but when I contacted the verizon stores, they said they don't have that software...

    So now I'm stuck with a defective phone while the treo store takes their time to "authorize my replacement" even though I was told by palm tech support the phone needs to be replaced.

    I should know by tomorrow whether they are going to do the right thing and send me an advance replacement or make me return and repurchase...

    Thanks for the info again Jeff, I'll keep you all updated.
  13.    #13  
    I've submitted this thread with a note of explanation to Sprint tech support address on Palm's site. I'll report back on whatever response I get. Although I don't know all the ins and outs and what have yous, jeff's explanation is very clear and sensible. That said, it's not surprising that Sprint advanced techs support would be unaware of the issue because Sprint might not be focused on the needs of third party developers.

    Of course, we all rely on these programs (or we would have just gone the 'berry route) so it's pretty important for Palm to be responsive to this issue.
  14. noodle's Avatar
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    #14  
    Everyone, check your phone info screen and make sure your HS SN isn't missing and your software/hardware versions aren't messed up. If they are, call palm and get a replacement, as jeff said, this can cause major problems and should be addressed immediately.
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    #15  
    I'm in a similar boat now. My Sprint700p was fine before as can be seen from the pics I posted here. But today I was using my Treo when it crashed/reset. When it came back up LauncherX was complaining that my 15 day trial had expired. I reentered my code, but it was rejected. When LX said to send the following info to the developer: "EMPTY"... I knew I was in trouble. Confirmed with Phone-->Info and ##786#. So now I've got a 700p with no HS SN, no HW rev, and a corrupted SW version as can be seen in my new pictures.

    http://tinyurl.com/m5umq

    To me this seems like a rather significant bug that the HS SN can be wiped out.

    I'm going to a Sprint store tomorrow morning to show them and see if I can get it replaced on the spot.

    ERic
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    Last edited by ERicJ; 06/30/2006 at 09:08 PM. Reason: downsize image
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ERicJ
    I'm in a similar boat now. My Sprint700p was fine before as can be seen from the pics I posted here. But today I was using my Treo when it crashed/reset. When it came back up LauncherX was complaining that my 15 day trial had expired. I reentered my code, but it was rejected. When LX said to send the following info to the developer: "EMPTY"... I knew I was in trouble. Confirmed with Phone-->Info and ##786#. So now I've got a 700p with no HS SN, no HW rev, and a corrupted SW version as can be seen in my new pictures.

    http://tinyurl.com/m5umq

    To me this seems like a rather significant bug that the HS SN can be wiped out.

    I'm going to a Sprint store tomorrow morning to show them and see if I can get it replaced on the spot.

    ERic
    So you did have an HSSN before the crash? I am not an expert in the storage mechanism of the HSSN but I was under the assumption this was a value that was perminantly stored into the Rom of the Treo.

    Jeff
  17. ERicJ's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    So you did have an HSSN before the crash?
    Yep, here's the pic from last week:

    http://tinyurl.com/heao8

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffgibson
    I am not an expert in the storage mechanism of the HSSN but I was under the assumption this was a value that was perminantly stored into the Rom of the Treo.
    That's what I would hope too... but apparently not indestructible. I tried all four reset methods (normal, safe, hard, and zero-out (with my MSL)) and none of them restored me to my previous state with a HS SN.

    ERic
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  18. noodle's Avatar
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    #18  
    I understand you wanting a replacement on the spot from sprint and I wish you luck, but you should contact palm and make them aware of the issue regardless of who replaces it.Just to give them a heads up.

    This needs to be corrected, and they need to know it is happenning on either provider and is not just an isolated incident.

    (just a suggestion)
  19. ERicJ's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by ERicJ
    I'm going to a Sprint store tomorrow morning to show them and see if I can get it replaced on the spot.
    I went to the Sprint store this morning and they've got this newfangled reservation system when you walk in, like waiting for a table at a restaurant.

    When my name was called I spoke with the assistant store manager and showed him the ##786# screen with the missing data, told him no type of reset nor reprovisioning fixed the problem. Then just like St. Nick "He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work" and emerged from the back room 30 seconds later with a new phone. He said there was no way any of his techs could fix that. He activated it right in front of me and gave me the MSL when I asked for it ("in case I need to reprovision or zero-out reset myself").

    I went out to my car and proceeded to restore my BackupMan backup and then discovered that the 'A' key on the keyboard only worked about 2/3 of the time. Doh!

    So I walked back into the store and the Sprint Maître d' graciously let me bypass the queue and took my brand new, defective 700p to the assistant manager. He claimed that every time he pressed 'A' it worked. I had to show him that when you typed reasonably fast it wouldn't work reliably. He took it the back again and five minutes or so later emerged with another brand new 700p.

    Going in expecting the worst, I have to say that was the easiest experience I've had at a Sprint retail store.

    On this latest unit the upper half row of keys (y,u,i,o,p) are "mushy"; when you press them there's no significant tactile or audible click like there is with other keys. This makes it hard to tell if you really hit that key when typing. But I'll use it for a while and see if I can live with it.

    ERic
  20.    #20  
    I discussed this issue with Palm Support via email and Sprint advanced tech support. What I gathered from these discussions is that HSSN is not that relevant to either Palm or Sprint.

    From Palm's perspective (apparently), the serial number is pretty much an identification for the manufacturer and for repair orders. They noted that most developers use the Hotsync ID and not the serial number to ID the handset.

    From Sprint's perspective, the HSSN does nothing in interfacing with the Sprint network. The technician did not know as a general matter if most Sprint handhelds do or don't have the HSSN burned in but categorically stated that Sprint does not use the HSSN. This is the first time he was asked the question. He did acknowledge that third party developers might use it for other purposes. (I pointed him to treocentral and this thread in case he was interested).

    So, bottom line? My phone is working properly with all the current apps. I don't have an HSSN and neither Sprint nor Palm appear motivated to change their current policies or replace units for this reason. I guess developers will have to modify their programs or there has to be a widespread conflict/failure emerging due to the lack of HSSNs to force Palm/Sprint to rethink this position.

    Albert
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