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  1. #61  
    I think POS is already dead. But I believe that a new Linux os will do a bang up job of emulating POS and running POS programs. Then over time...newer versions of many palm programs will will just become mobile linux programs. I'm not even sure it would be a good business move for palm to license the new POS / Linux from access when they could just make their own flavor and be in full control of it.

    Breaking up Palm hardware and Palm OS was a dumb move. They could have just as easily licensed sony and handspring without splitting up the companies.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by gtcaz
    I'm surprised Blackberry wasn't mentioned once in this thread. Seems to me they're coming strong for the PDA-Phone market with the 71xx series (7130e for Sprint with Ev-DO, for example) and 8700 series. Nice screens. Stable. Fast. I know they aren't perfect, but they deserve a nod.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8...t-for-q1-2006/
    RIM sell many devices, but the blackberry is a poor, very limited platform. The third party software model is convoluted, the devices are limited and underpowered and there is only one hardware manufacturer. Except for the third party software they kind of remind me of Palm.

    Surur
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo-mike
    I think POS is already dead. But I believe that a new Linux os will do a bang up job of emulating POS and running POS programs. Then over time...newer versions of many palm programs will will just become mobile linux programs. I'm not even sure it would be a good business move for palm to license the new POS / Linux from access when they could just make their own flavor and be in full control of it.

    Breaking up Palm hardware and Palm OS was a dumb move. They could have just as easily licensed sony and handspring without splitting up the companies.
    Ed Colligan agrees with you on the Palm OS sale and he did try and buy it back....now they hiring Linux engineers like crazy.

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showt...ighlight=Linux

    And now we see NEC, Panasonic Samsung, Motorola and others agreeing to develop standard Linux API's

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06...nux_phone_api/

    and everyone geting real hi on Linux mobile

    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showt...ighlight=Linux

    it seems that there's a significant amount of momentum .... Nokia / Sony could really swing things if eitehr or both of them drop Symbian and move either way.

    The ONLY way Palm will do Linux tho is if they can control and have protected rights to their own UI. That's their niche and they reason they have become the 800 pound goriulla in the Treo like market
    .
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    if you don't like macs, that's ok. you don't have to try and come up with a logical reason. I don't like the Red Sox. no reason, don't pretend to have one.
    for the record, I like macs and appreciate them in the market place (they are bit pricey though ), in fact I'll probably move up next to a dual system.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  5. #65  
    Speaking of Macs(OT ALERT), did anyone see the commercials between the mac & the PC? Priceless
    University Of Pittsburgh
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  6. jlczl's Avatar
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    #66  
    I believe many of the comments posted here actually mask an undercurrent of the love/hate of M$. How many of you who posted that Palm IS NOT dead are M$ haters ? How many of you who believe Palm IS dead are M$ lovers ?

    No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question.

    I personally am OS neutral . I buy whatever gets the job DONE. Right now that's an MS product (8125), next year it may be POS or Symbian. Some of you claim that as well but c'mon, admit it, some of you are just emotionally attatched (not that there's anything wrong with that).

    Still, this thread has managed to stay pretty civil, so don't let me instigate anything .
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    I believe many of the comments posted here actually mask an undercurrent of the love/hate of M$. How many of you who posted that Palm IS NOT dead are M$ haters ? How many of you who believe Palm IS dead are M$ lovers ?

    No need to answer, it's a rhetorical question.

    I personally am OS neutral . I buy whatever gets the job DONE. Right now that's an MS product (8125), next year it may be POS or Symbian. Some of you claim that as well but c'mon, admit it, some of you are just emotionally attatched (not that there's anything wrong with that).

    Still, this thread has managed to stay pretty civil, so don't let me instigate anything .
    There's one thing you missed. Some of us are FINANCIALLY attached to the PalmOS. We have purchased hundreds of dollars worth of PalmOS programs and are not crazy about having to throw all of them away. I'm also biased against the MiniSD cards for the exact same reason.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    dude, you are about a year out of date with the Macs. Even PC magazine has stated that the new Intel Macs are among the fastest machines available, even when running Windows XP..
    I am certainly not out of date with macs. The intel macs are not the fastes at all, and I will explain.

    Firstly was responding to the rather uniformed idea that PCs have the buisiness, but Macs have the dominance in the creative business marekt.

    I don't think anyone who has been in a major creative practice in the past few years wuld say such a thing. Full scale conversion away from mac occured a couple of years ago.

    In terms of speed, PC are faster becaue of budgets. everyone buys on a budget.

    comparision outside of budgets (like pc magazines cited which had a cost differential of >2:1) are meaningless to real world buyers.

    For the same dollars pc blows mac away in speed in every possible scenario -- and by quite abit.

    I don't want to dwell on that obvious fact. We were discussing how the loss of share effects an OS. It kills development by third parties.

    Even the latest treo the GSM version, will be windows and not palm os.

    Again I have wo 700ps and am glad I do. Palm itelf has abandoned its operating system and I wnt be investing in many third party apps as a result and those app sellers know it. This is very simiar to what happened to mac OS
  9. yOyOYoo's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by justbrown522
    Speaking of Macs(OT ALERT), did anyone see the commercials between the mac & the PC? Priceless
    believe me, I'd never go back to a PC, I love my powerbook. But I feel like those commercials are very arrogant, and they really suck.

    Mac may do more out of the box, but I seriously feel that windows has way more useful and creative software available than on the mac platform.

    How does Linux mobile affect palm os? Will we still be able to use the same palm platform, or will it be much more limited?
  10. #70  
    Let's make one thing clear. PalmOS applications currently run in an environment called PACE. This is the Palm Application Compatibility Environment. It provides emulation of the Motorola 68K processor.

    This PACE environment also runs on Windows. It would be a simple step to port this environment to Linux.

    If Palm were not to do this, it would be akin to Microsoft releasing a version of Windows that didn't support the gazillions of previously released Windows applications.

    It just ain't gonna happen. All future Treos that are of the Palm flavor, will retain backwards compatibility.

    As far as TomTom goes, I am of the impression that they sell alot of PalmOS units. I can't imagine they have plans to discontinue it.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by yOyOYoo
    believe me, I'd never go back to a PC, I love my powerbook. But I feel like those commercials are very arrogant, and they really suck.

    Mac may do more out of the box, but I seriously feel that windows has way more useful and creative software available than on the mac platform.

    How does Linux mobile affect palm os? Will we still be able to use the same palm platform, or will it be much more limited?
    Those new Mac ads are GRRRREAT! They're not arrogant, they're hilarious.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by aero
    I am certainly not out of date with macs. The intel macs are not the fastes at all, and I will explain.

    Firstly was responding to the rather uniformed idea that PCs have the buisiness, but Macs have the dominance in the creative business marekt.

    I don't think anyone who has been in a major creative practice in the past few years wuld say such a thing. Full scale conversion away from mac occured a couple of years ago.

    In terms of speed, PC are faster becaue of budgets. everyone buys on a budget.

    comparision outside of budgets (like pc magazines cited which had a cost differential of >2:1) are meaningless to real world buyers.

    For the same dollars pc blows mac away in speed in every possible scenario -- and by quite abit.

    I don't want to dwell on that obvious fact. We were discussing how the loss of share effects an OS. It kills development by third parties.

    Even the latest treo the GSM version, will be windows and not palm os.

    Again I have wo 700ps and am glad I do. Palm itelf has abandoned its operating system and I wnt be investing in many third party apps as a result and those app sellers know it. This is very simiar to what happened to mac OS
    Your conclusions are not quite true.

    I work extensively in the creative field -- I am a Creative Director for a branding firm in Seattle. We are entirely Mac based, and our peers are Mac based as well. The only people who have PCs are admin staff and those needing to perform any kind of coding/backend stuff for clients' web sites. The Mac is alive and well in the design and production community -- no doubt some have migrated to PC, but the majority are still Mac. Even the Seattle Times and Seattle Post Intelligencer design staff are entirely Mac based.

    Your cost analysis is patently false. If you make an apples to apples (no pun) comparison between a Mac and a mainstream PC brand with the same exact features, you will end up within a couple of hundred dollars difference only. Macs come with many standard items such as 1000baseT, firewire, built-in camera, wireless, bluetooth, DVD burner, wide aspect ratio display, bundled applications, etc., and by the time you add some of those extras into a PC you've negated any initially apparent cost advantage.

    Most PCs, except for perhaps Sony, are crap when it comes to industrial design.
  13. #73  
    Regarding PalmOS being a dated platform, I agree -- and the clock is ticking very loudly.

    I have a 700p, but it was my last option after having tried a 700w and then a xv6700. Windows Mobile is far more elegant than PalmOS, works more intelligently, and offers far greater flexibility and functionality. Even though I'm not a fan of Microsoft, they did a good thing here and are on the right track. Windows Mobile will only get better, and I dare say Windows seems a better platform for mobile devices than it is for PCs.

    If PalmOS apps run in a compatibility layer, why then did Palm not include this compatibility layer on the 700w and do away with the 700p entirely? I would love nothing more than to have a single device handle all of my software, and I'd have options. I have a feeling Palm wussed out with these last two devices, and just wanted to put out some token new models without much thought or effort.

    Windows Mobile absolutely needs competition, and Linux will hopefully provide that competition. I'm surprised Palm hasn't inked a deal with Apple to get a mobile version of OS X running on a handheld, that would have been the path of least resistance, but perhaps they prefer to develop their own OS and not rely on the whims of another company's licensing policies.

    Palm will either go fully with Windows Mobile, selling itself as a hardware but not an OS supplier (like everyone else), or will shift over to a Linux or other next generation platform. But either way, PalmOS will die. It needs to.
  14. #74  
    The designers using mac's have always irritated me. They would make print adverts showing supposed computer interfaces, and they would invariably using mac windows furniture (borders, buttons, metallic colorings), which are completely foreign to 95% of the population that use computers, making the whole advert meaningless. Its like they could not see beyond their own prejudices to other people's experiences. I cant wait for that practice to die out.

    Surur
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The designers using mac's have always irritated me. They would make print adverts showing supposed computer interfaces, and they would invariably using mac windows furniture (borders, buttons, metallic colorings), which are completely foreign to 95% of the population that use computers, making the whole advert meaningless. Its like they could not see beyond their own prejudices to other people's experiences. I cant wait for that practice to die out.

    Surur
    It depends on who the target audience was for the ad you're speaking about. Any good agency will not simply let the designers decide what to do, but will carefully art direct every component of the ad. I think what you're speaking about is the exception rather than the rule.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    Your conclusions are not quite true.

    I work extensively in the creative field -- I am a Creative Director for a branding firm in Seattle. We are entirely Mac based, and our peers are Mac based as well. The only people who have PCs are admin staff and those needing to perform any kind of coding/backend stuff for clients' web sites. The Mac is alive and well in the design and production community -- no doubt some have migrated to PC, but the majority are still Mac. Even the Seattle Times and Seattle Post Intelligencer design staff are entirely Mac based.

    Your cost analysis is patently false. If you make an apples to apples (no pun) comparison between a Mac and a mainstream PC brand with the same exact features, you will end up within a couple of hundred dollars difference only. Macs come with many standard items such as 1000baseT, firewire, built-in camera, wireless, bluetooth, DVD burner, wide aspect ratio display, bundled applications, etc., and by the time you add some of those extras into a PC you've negated any initially apparent cost advantage.

    Most PCs, except for perhaps Sony, are crap when it comes to industrial design.
    Sonny,

    I have to say wherever you are working it sounds like a backwater and they are considerably behind the times. My wife is the creative director a very large firm in DC, oversees about 35 designers in print, web and multimedia and comes out of teaching position at a major design insitution (pratt). Everyone has moved to PC's at major firms here in and in New York. You do realize that at the high end university design programs almost everything, especially the work requiring serious processing is Pc?

    No offense I can see you don't know your hardware too well because you are mentioning items like firewire and 1000t, which cost about $30 per unit.

    Did you actually say macs come with DVD burners? This is where mac holdouts are living in their own world. "macs come with DVD burners" Hello -- every $250 emachines comes with one! This is a $35 item.

    There is no one would seriously contend that for the same amont of money you get anything close to the speed and capabilites.

    By the way the wide aspect display comment flummoxes me since even mac buyers rarely buy mac displays anyway. You can get better brighter faster displays of any aspect ratio than mac for less.

    OK an Apple with the same featureas as a pc costs about 2 times as much or more. The $1000 to $1500 premium per workstation is the difference between replacement in one year vs two. (even more given presnet vaule considerations). that and the migration of eveyr major design software to pc (aobut 5 years ago) put the nail in the coffin.

    the PC vs mac issue is just being used by various conmmentators here to discuss the problems as treo os loses market share, not to argue over what caused mac to lose their core business, which is a matter of fact not debate.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    It depends on who the target audience was for the ad you're speaking about. Any good agency will not simply let the designers decide what to do, but will carefully art direct every component of the ad. I think what you're speaking about is the exception rather than the rule.
    We are talking simple news paper adds meant to look like an email notice for example. Its a widespread practice.

    Surur
  18. kvcobra's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    ... I have a 700p, but it was my last option after having tried a 700w and then a xv6700. Windows Mobile is far more elegant than PalmOS, works more intelligently, and offers far greater flexibility and functionality...
    Sorry I'm late to the party, kids.

    SonnyS, please elaborate on these comments. If you tried 2 WM devices and think WM5 is a better OS than PalmOS, why did you end up with a 700p?
    ... Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestieren konnte.
    ... Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out.
    -- Rev. Martin Niemöller

    Clie T615C + Nokia 6360 (SunCom) --> Treo 650 (Sprint) --> Treo 755p (Sprint) + BlackBerry 7130e (VZW)
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  19. noodle's Avatar
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    #79  
    I'm tired of palm versions as well as mac v ersions of everything coming out years late if even coming out at all. I don't think its a dead platform, but it would be nice for new products to code palm and osx versions in the same timeframe as pc/wm...
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    noodlelest wet noodler
  20. #80  
    Apple updates the OS every year with new features and enhancements. MS takes 5+ years to come out with anything new and the OS is riddled with bugs, defects and is crackable in no time.
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