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  1. doctoss's Avatar
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    #41  
    I don't know the future of the palm os, but I needed something to meet my needs now. I may change in the future, but the 700p works for me now.
  2. #42  
    The choice to cease development for a piece of software is seldom motivated by the OS being "dead" as much as market share. Sometimes one equals the other, other times not. Again, the Palm-to-Apple comparison works. Palm has an end-to-end solution -- they make the OS and the hardware that runs the OS. Microsoft licenses its OS to a variety of manufacturers, so it's logical to believe that there will always be more WM devices on the market than Palm, and greater WM market share. However, PalmOS has been out for so long I wonder who has the larger PDA market share at this point?

    Palm's killer PDA would be Linux-based, but would also give users the option to intall WM or run it in some sort of virtualized environment. That way future Palm users get the best of both worlds. Can current PDA hardware handle something like this?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by richpjr
    the Palm OS is dated and limiting compared to a PPC
    I think you are badly mistaken.
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  4. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #44  
    richpjr, I think whatever you buy today will be obsolete in 12 months. For example, EVDO rev A is coming, and after that something ELSE will be coming. I recommend you buy what works best now, and don't worry about next year.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    richpjr, I think whatever you buy today will be obsolete in 12 months. For example, EVDO rev A is coming, and after that something ELSE will be coming. I recommend you buy what works best now, and don't worry about next year.
    Now THIS is the statement that makes the most sense in the entire thread.
    Palm IIIx>Palm Vx>Palm m515>Tungsten T>Tungsten C>Verizon Treo 650
    ................................StarTAC 7868W>Motorola V710>Verizon Treo 650>Treo 700p>Apple iPhone 3G
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    Microsoft licenses its OS to a variety of manufacturers, so it's logical to believe that there will always be more WM devices on the market than Palm, and greater WM market share. However, PalmOS has been out for so long I wonder who has the larger PDA market share at this point?
    WM passed Palm in PDA sipments in 2004.

    Palm's killer PDA would be Linux-based, but would also give users the option to intall WM or run it in some sort of virtualized environment. That way future Palm users get the best of both worlds. Can current PDA hardware handle something like this?
    The OSwin smartphone which ran cobalt could dual boot with WM, and was shown as such. It eventually shipped with the WM OS.

    Surur
  7. #47  
    See...the thing is that WM5 hasn't grasped the one key component of the Palm platform. Simplicity and elegance in the user interface. It's much easier and better doing things on the Palm PIM than the WM5 one. Plus, it's quick to boot. When palm comes out with their linux-based handhelds and treos (whether it's ALP or Palm's own variant), it will likely put Windows Mobile to shame.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    I know POS and WM5 (WM Smartphone edition too) are the leading choices in smartphones. However, they really aren't comparable...it's an apples to oranges comparison. Right now today, WM5 is the Linux (don't hate me yet) of the smartphone world. If you want full control of your device and be truly able to leave the laptop at home and have all of the super-power user tools at your disposal (terminal session, etc...) you go with WM5. Is it good as a phone? Somewhat.
    .....
    Some of us believe that a smartphone is a PHONE first and a computer second.
    Quote Originally Posted by richpjr
    The entire reason I started this thread was reading some comments from Mapopolis staff about how they were looking long and hard about whether or not to continue releasing software for a "dead" OS. If other vendors feel that way than new apps could dry up.
    Mapopolis is not the only vendor Other vendors do feel that way. this is a widening trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    Palm is in the exact same situation Apple was in a few years ago when it had OS 9. It was competing against more modern operating systems, and the Mac just wouldn't survive unless the OS was overhauled. So they went with Unix for OS X, and created an emulation layer for older OS 9 software so that everyone could run all software as seamlessly as possible while giving people a modern OS with all the goodies..
    That is the irony. OS X did not do much at all, Apple's share of the PC business continued though the years since os x was released.

    The anaology with apple is scary since the company was only saved by its sales of ipods and itunes. If treo ends up with 2% of the smartphone market its owners will be as orphaned as mac owners. my wife works in design and teaches it as well at the university level. she was not a mac afficianado, but lived in a mac only world. this all changed a couple of years ago. all the big desing groups now used pcs, and the software she used went from mac only, mac optimized, pc as an afterthought, to mac and pc equal, now to pc optimized.

    I can't think of anything more worrisome for palm than the comprision to Apple's personal computer blunders.

    I bought 700p's, as quite obviously alomst everyone on the board. as xtant21 said, the thing has got work as a phone first and it does. but I am very skeptical about OS's future (the writing is on the wall), and not much more confident about palm's hardware future. There are already a half dozen applications availalbe for windows which I see are not available with palm os, and most lilkly will never be.

    the palm os will be clobbered once processors cabable of running windows at proper speeds come on line and that is just a generation away. the sense that development is stalled and palm is just taking its last profits on a mature combination of hardware and software is widespread. buying it is not a mistake, I don't want to be bleeding edge on my phone. but I think a lot of us sense we won't be buying again.
  9. #49  
    See...the thing is that WM5 hasn't grasped the one key component of the Palm platform. Simplicity and elegance in the user interface. It's much easier and better doing things on the Palm PIM than the WM5 one. Plus, it's quick to boot. When palm comes out with their linux-based handhelds and treos (whether it's ALP or Palm's own variant), it will likely put Windows Mobile to shame.
    My thoughts exactly. Palm is simple and elegant and until WM is able to be controlled easily one handed I will stick with Palm. A year ago I finally got tired of everyone saying WM is the way to go now. I broke down and bought a wm smartphone. What a disappointment, I returned it shortly, something to be said about the palm os. Its hard to put my finger on though. When and if the Linux treo comes out and is backwards compatible I will be on board.
  10. #50  
    Apple's modern OS X strategy employing an emulation layer so as not to orphan OS 9 users was not a blunder -- it's brilliant. Apple's Intel strategy employing an emulation layer to run all existing PowerPC software is not a blunder either, it's smart business. On an OS level, Palm is in the same exact boat as Apple was several years ago with their dated OS, and Palm would do well to follow Apple's successful strategy of migrating to a modern OS foundation while not abandoning its existing software and user base. That was my point.

    If Palm could get iTunes, it would help sell units. Palm should also realize that it IS the Apple of the PDA world, and as such it needs to execute correctly on a number of fronts in order to maintain its current position, let alone move forward. I am a Mac user because I love the simplicity, elegance, and superior OS -- and the software I want is either on my machine already or available. The same reasons, minus the superior OS, are why I purchased the Treo. I couldn't care less about market share -- I'm the one using this thing, not someone else, and it fits me better.

    Let the companies worry about market share -- we should be more worried about getting a PDA that meets our needs now and in the future.
  11. #51  
    Marketshare translates into third party support. That what this thread is about in the end. If you have an insignificant marketshare you may find no-one is going to make any GPS software for your platform.

    Surur
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Marketshare translates into third party support. That what this thread is about in the end. If you have an insignificant marketshare you may find no-one is going to make any GPS software for your platform.

    Surur
    Actually it's units sold that translates into 3rd party support. As markets grow it's possible to stay with a small market share but still grow your sales and achieve reasonable 3rd party support. Apple is a great example of this.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    Actually it's units sold that translates into 3rd party support. As markets grow it's possible to stay with a small market share but still grow your sales and achieve reasonable 3rd party support. Apple is a great example of this.
    no it is market share. the apple case is perfect example, third party support has plummeted.
  14. #54  
    Third party support for the Mac is tremendous and thriving. The only area where it is somewhat lacking is in business software and gaming. But in terms of the creative applications, the Mac is as strong as ever, and that is its bread-and-butter.

    I'm very impressed with the number of PamOS developers -- seems to be a very strong and loyal base. Just because WM is the dominant player in terms of units shipped doesn't mean it's the better player. With smartphones and PDAs, most of the applications you will ever need come with the phone to begin with, so third party support isn't so important -- not for me, anyway. I use maybe three apps in addition to the ones already installed on the 700p, and doubt I would need to ever use more. If I need more functionality, I'll whip out my Powerbook.

    Ultimately, OS usability and industrial/ergonomic design will win users over, along with a strong suite of bundled software. That's just my opinion.
  15. #55  
    I would say that it's units sold combined with sort of sense of how easy/successful you'll be selling your apps. That latter nebulous thing can be impacted by the demographics of the userbase as well.

    Right now I'd say that the Palm OS still has a huge (and growing) number of units sold (and userbase size) but PalmSource and Palm have done a poor job of educating and enabling the average user in terms of how to go about adding on 3rd party apps (and what's available). MS and the WM5 licensees (as well as Symbian S60) are no better in this regard.

    I'm not sure if Palm OS developers are seeing sales growth or shrinkage, but if the latter, it seems like this has to be due to that second reason I mentioned above. Certainly the number of Palm OS devices in circulation are big enough that the market for 3rd party apps should be *at least* as good as it was five years ago.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyS
    Third party support for the Mac is tremendous and thriving. The only area where it is somewhat lacking is in business software and gaming. But in terms of the creative applications, the Mac is as strong as ever, and that is its bread-and-butter..
    If by creative applicationn you mean publishing, design, multimedia etc, you would be very wrong. these industries, in terms of either users or developers have been moving away from Mac for several years. As I mentioned my wife works in high end graphic design. Her workplace is extremely advanced and she teaches as well. She was a mac devotee for for a decade and a half. Her business and her prefernce is almost completely pc based now.

    Simple fact is economics. for a given budget at a workstation, take your pick $1500: $2,500; $4000, whatever, pc's slaughter mac products in speed. that is why Mac lost the creative business a couple of years ago and why the developers moved to pc based applicaitons as their leading products.

    I am not down on the 700p, I just bought a couple. but it is clear if you look at a lot of interesting applications the windows versions are out or in development an hte palm versions are nowhere. look at the discussions on slingbox concerning the palm version, this is one example of many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I would say that it's units sold combined with sort of sense of how easy/successful you'll be selling your apps. That latter nebulous thing can be impacted by the demographics of the userbase as well..
    no it is market share of current sales. this tends to show trends. applications need a loead time. ddevelopers are making an investment in where the pltforms will be in a year.

    there is also signaling and cooperation from the platform (hard or soft) seller, and palm is definately failing there with software vendors apparently not getting satsifactory answers concerning development and palm OS's future from palm itself.

    look at it thisway. i see the 700p's processor, memory, os as optimized to each other in a good balance. but if processors are stepped up theri isnt going to be much advantage withthe os which has certain barriers which can't be overcome without a full overhaul. windows mobile is position to deliver more good once processors are stepped up. (this is why I would not touch a 700w with the current processor, you don't get the advantage.)
    Last edited by aero; 06/30/2006 at 11:01 AM.
  17. #57  
    dude, you are about a year out of date with the Macs. Even PC magazine has stated that the new Intel Macs are among the fastest machines available, even when running Windows XP.

    Now if you want to say that a Windows-only machine is much faster at getting viruses or malware I'll be very happy to agree with you.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by driven01
    Now if you want to say that a Windows-only machine is much faster at getting viruses or malware I'll be very happy to agree with you.
    dude seriously, that argument is slightly old too...I mean, how hard it is to run McAfee + Firefox? It just loads and runs and updates itselft. You have to be an ***** to get virus's and malware today.

    and it's not b/c Mac is impervious to those attacks, they just control a lot less market than MS so writers don't bother. Switch places with MS and you'll see a lot more virii..

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  19. #59  
    we'll let the virus argument go. the security model between unix and Windows is too different. will we see Mac or Linux or Unix viruses? probably, but even with a reverse market share they would'nt be as severe or numerous. anyone who *could* write a real virus on a mac or linux system would get instant headlines. if it were easy to do, it would be done. windows is not the target because of market share, it's the target because it's easy to infect due to horrible quality control and a mad rush to have every feature in the planet in the OS.

    if you don't like macs, that's ok. you don't have to try and come up with a logical reason. I don't like the Red Sox. no reason, don't pretend to have one.
    ---
    iPhone / Samsung Epix

    Current playtoys:
    Also: Treo 750 (Test phone) / Sony Ericcson w900 (unlocked for international travel)
  20. #60  
    I'm surprised Blackberry wasn't mentioned once in this thread. Seems to me they're coming strong for the PDA-Phone market with the 71xx series (7130e for Sprint with Ev-DO, for example) and 8700 series. Nice screens. Stable. Fast. I know they aren't perfect, but they deserve a nod.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8...t-for-q1-2006/
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