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  1. #181  
    It looks like the folks on the thread have done a great job of isolating the issue. Would be a pity if the palm folks don't read it to help them debug and eventually fix it.

    I've found two workarounds - one painful and one not-so-painful.

    1. Switching out of the SMS app after sending before the return receipt seems to prevent the hang. The problem is - remembering and doing it quickly enough. More than once I've wanted to hurl the phone out the window after being distracted and noticing that my phone would be "offline" for 30 seconds or so 'cause I didn't do a "<down><done><house>" in time.

    2. Deleting the messages I've sent. It turns out the bug is likely in the way the app searches sent messages to decide which one to "check". If I choose the <sent> folder then purge when the count gets near 50 I don't perceive a noticeable hang. This is way cool 'cause I can continue to keep inbound messages and keep my inbox in "conversation" mode.

    I too am anxious to see verizon/palm fix this but at least now I can press "send" and know that a soft-reset isn't in my future. (I was never patient enough to wait for it to come back if it froze for more than 2 minutes).

    Cheers,
    Bill
  2. #182  
    Not to jinx myself, but....

    I got a call yesterday from Palm, but I was on a flight, so they called back today and asked a few "clarifying" questions about my issue #1-165123255...

    Q: Does it happen after I hard-reset?
    A: Yes, if you send about 50 text messages back and forth to my wife's Treo 650 on Verizon.

    Q: Do you sync after the hard-reset?
    A: No, this bug occurs on a completely reset and un-synced Treo 700P with nothing installed or sync'ed to it. Just send a bunch of text messages back and forth between a Treo 700p and another Verizon phone (like my wife's Treo 650)

    So, they sent those answers to engineering along with a plea to have them contact me via phone or email for ANY questions they have to fix this issue...

    Plus, I had 3 more SMS lockups today! Was trying to text Mrs. NoGas and kept missing the delay window by 1-2 seconds.. Was just too quick to switch back to SMS to continue the SMS conversation..

    Wish us all luck!

    Scott
  3. #183  
    That's great to hear that Palm contacted to you.

    Was just wondering if you or anyone else tried the above solution deleting messages from their Sent folder to see if it clears up the problem. If it is a valid workaround, I can pass it onto Palm. This information would help them to narrow down the root cause quicker.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  4. #184  
    switching out of the SMS app does not help for me. The phone will hang in other apps; perhaps it is shorter as some people have pointed out, but it does not solve the issue at all.

    I'll try just clearing out the sent folder.

    Thanks for your help Bob-C
  5. #185  
    Clearing out only the sent messages does prevent the hang. This is the closest thing to a reasonable work around we've achieved, although this ends up clearing out all sent messages from all chat strings.

    **In my experience, clearing out one chat string will prevent hangs from -that- chat string. This information may also be helpful to palm. I.e. if I have one chat string with a verizon customer that has 5 texts, vs. one that has 500 texts, the first chat string will not cause my phone to hang, but the second one will.

    This is probably already understood, but the slight difference between clearing out all sent messages and only for one chat-string (although you can only do this by deleting all (sent and received) messages from the chat string) may be helpful.

    I guess those are our two choices then, lose all sent messages from all strings, and prevent hangs completely,

    or lose all messages from one string, but prevents only hanging from that string.
    Last edited by ilag1; 01/17/2007 at 10:07 PM.
  6. #186  
    I summarized & passed the Sent folder information onto Steve. Recreating a problem is always at least 50% of resolving an issue. If the Palm engineers have not observed this behavior yet then you guys can credit yourselves for doing half of the fix work when it comes out. Will let u know when I hear something.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas View Post
    I have had my Verizon 700p for three weeks now and I have experienced the dreaded SMS Lockup since day one. I've been experimenting with workarounds and tried to understand the situation by analyzing numerous threads in this and other Treo forums, and through this process I hope to spare others at least some of the pain.

    If you are experiencing this problem here are some things NOT to do:

    Do not waste your time doing a hard reset - it will not help.

    Do not try to attribute the problem to a Third Party App. It happens on a virgin Treo 700p just the same as one loaded with a full complement of programs.

    Do not feel compelled to erase your accumulation of SMS messages. It does not seem to be related to a corrupted database.


    There are a number of variables at work with the SMS Lockup condition - it seems to be most prevailant with Verizon, though there are reports of it afflicting the Sprint 700p also. I have a Verizon phone and get most of my lockups when text messaging other Verizon subscribers. My working theory is that the lockup occurs when the receipt confirmation comes back to my phone. Its entirely possible that Sprint subscribers get the same intermittent lockup when receiving text messages from Verizon subscribers though I can't be sure.

    This condition is intermittent with me - I would say I get it about 80% of the time when I text message another Verizon subscriber. I have had it happen with out-of-network recipients, but not nearly as often. Maybe 10% of the time.

    The lockup condition varies, but averages about two minutes. Its almost the same amount of time that it takes me to reboot the phone, so its rare that I bother rebooting the device. It always returns to normal state eventually. I have also observed that an incoming phone call or another inbound text message will end the lockup - which is good news because it would be a major disaster to loose total functionality.

    I have a workaround that SEEMS to help, but not always. If - immediately after sending a text message - I switch out of the SMS program by pushing either the Home or the Phone key before the green checkmark that indicates that the message has been received arrives back to my phone, then the phone TENDS not to lock up as much.

    I view SMS Lockup as a serious, serious bug and I hope that the people at Palm/Verizon are working on a fix as we speak.

    If you want to contribute to this thread it is important that you include your carrier (Verizon, Sprint, etc) and the carrier of your recipient - if known. I would especially like to hear from Verizon customers who are HEAVY text message users, who regularly message other Verizon customers to determine if there are ANY of us who don't have this issue.
    KL: Thank you for writing such a detailed thread. Yours is the first I've come accross that REALLY details the SMS problem. After a month of having my 680 & exchanging 2 units I'm having this very problem (not so on my Treo 650). Yep, hard reset, erased all 3rd party apps etc. etc. Nothing works. Seems the 680 must be using the same OS as the 700? I've called Palm tech support several times. The first time, they had no idea what I was talking about. The last time (4 weeks later) they knew of the problem but said the only option they could offer is to purge the chat logs once they get long because there IS a Memory problem & they haven't come up with a solution yet. I thought this was interesting considering the 680 appears to have much more capacity than the 650. I have not heard many Cinular customers complain mostly *T-mobile (unlocked) Until I decide if this $399.00 mess is going back I too have resorted to the rediculous WORKAROUND measure just so the phone will stop freezing...
  8. #188  
    i am waiting from a call back from the engineering department about the freezing. hopefully they will be able to provide a workaround or get me into a different phone. i will let yall know. just found out about this thread of howardforums.com wish i had known about it earlier. nice to know i am not the only one suffering through this. you would think palm/verizon would have fixed it. i have had a 700p since june. that is great customer service right there.

    BTW I am on verizon
    Last edited by bew7547; 01/24/2007 at 11:25 PM. Reason: include service provider
  9. #189  
    I am on verizon and I am a heavy texter to other vzw users and to a lesser extent to other carriers.I do not have this issue.i delete all my chats immediatley and I keep no messages in my inbox or sent folder at all.i soft reset my treo every morning and during the day if I notice anything weird.i never get the 2 minute hangs that you are all reporting.this is my second 700p as my first was replaced due to a bad antenna.my first one didn't have the problem either.perhaps you just can't save the threads and texts....if you really need to keep one you can copy and paste it to the memo pad.
  10. #190  
    Dr Livingston, I presume... So, your solution is to
    1) Erase all messages
    2) Reset your phone daily
    Do you do the same thing with your email on your PC? I mean, yes doing this will prevent this hang from appearing, but that's not the point. This hang should not happen at all.

    Scott
  11. #191  
    I guess I just don't consider text messages the same as emails.i just see no need to save them.if its important I cut and paste it into a memo.and yes,i do restart my pc every day.doing a daily soft reset is an easy and painless way to clear up many issues.i have the seido battery door with reset hole so the whole thing takes me 30 seconds.you are correct,you should be able to keep all your old text messages.but the previous poster asked for heavy verizon texters who don't have the problem.i fit that category so I was simply explaining what works for me...and btw...its MR Livingston to you.....!!
  12. #192  
    I never heard back from Sinclair but from the response above it sounds like Palm was either aware of the workaround, or they heard about it from the email or from reading through the thread.

    It is actually very good news that the 680 has the same problem and that Palm is aware of it already. It should light a fire under their arses now that it affects a just released unit. How is a "lowrider" customer supposed to deal with that issue?
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  13. #193  
    I received a reply from Steve Sinclair today. He told me that he mean to reply earlier but had passed the information onto to the appropriate people. So maybe that is why their support is providing the workaround to customers calling up now.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  14. #194  
    I received a reply from Steve Sinclair at Palm. He said that he had passed the email onto the appropriate persons & had meant to get back to me sooner. So maybe the workaround was to the engineers & support people.

    I verified with Steve that the firmware fix is scheduled for the 2007 1Q year & NOT the fiscal year as some feared.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
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    #195  
    Thanks for keeping us posted on this issue. I have to say this is a really annoying bug for those of us who txt a lot and like to keep our chat history.
  16. #196  
    It's fun for me to go back through a year or two of messages & re-read some of the conversations.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  17. #197  
    Okay, update from Palm Tech Support....

    On monday, I got a call from Palm Tech Support, that said that Palm Engineering had tried to reproduce the problem and could'nt...

    So, I told them about this thread, but I didn't have the URL memorized, so they said they would call me back.

    So yesterday I got a phone call from Palm, and had the URL available, and they put it in the record for my case.

    So, hopefully if ANYONE from Palm is reading this working on this case, let me know (via PM) if you want me to try ANY solution you have for this.

    I hereby offer myself and my Treo as Alpha/Beta tester for ANY solution for this issue.

    Scott
    PS> I also spoke to several Verizon Tech Sales for the Federal Space about this issue as well, so maybe they can socialize this issue some more.
  18. #198  
    Maybe this will help to reproduce the problem:

    1. Send and receive about 40 SMS messages with another VZW subscriber. Make sure you are using "Conversation" mode and no messages are deleted.
    2. Type in a (new) message
    3. Press "<SEND>"
    4. Start pressing a character (I usually do 2-per-second)
    5. Watch the screen - the characters are echoed as you type
    6. When the "green-check-of-death" is being applied - the echo will stop and the system will appear frozen (keep pressing the key and count silently to yourself)
    7. After the "green-check-of-death" has been applied things will resume

    The delay can be calculated by subtracting the number of characters in the SMS you are creating from the number of times you pressed the key. If you are really consistent at 2/second -

    delay = (#key-presses - (#chars stored in outbound SMS)) / 2

    It seems to get worse in a non-linear fashion - meaning that 60 messages in your <SENT> folder causes a delay 10 times worse than 30 messages.

    The goal for Verizon/Palm is to make the number of lost keystrokes=0. That would indicate the software is capturing user input and not visiting the planet formerly known as Pluto. Once this is done - the bug is fixed.

    If Verizon/Palm wants to give me access to the source I'll be happy to fix the bug as well. I find it really really really really hard to believe that an issue seen consistently by 400+ customers cannot be reproduced by their support org.

    OK - do you want to hear Ironic? The company I work for sells equipment to Verizon and I spent 5 hours on conference calls with them (Verizon) to discuss the root cause for an issue they've hit exactly once.

    Bill.
    Last edited by scbillsb; 02/02/2007 at 08:05 PM. Reason: Typo
  19. #199  
    Good work, people. This is a great thread and hopefully can resolve a most annoying issue. You guys and gals are awesome.
  20. #200  
    Well, this week I got a call from Palm Tech Support about my case...

    They said, "the issue that you have raised...regarding SMS delivery report ... freezing the phone ... has been escalated and is now under investigation by our engineering department."

    So, if they can find the problem, then maybe, just maybe we'll get a fix. Though, I've got to be honest... My "new every two" comes up in 46 days... Maybe it's time to switch away from Palm and Treo?

    Oh, well... If they can fix this bug soon, then I may end up staying Palm.

    Scott

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