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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by njpilot911
    If you define "generation" by the number of ROM upgrades a product receives I'd might agree with you. Palm is clearly offering the 700p as an upgrade from the 650, reinforced by its offer to accept a 650 in trade...otherwise, they would offer you $150 for any competitor's product in trade. The 700p is not a first release, it is in fact, a sequential release of a long successful product.
    Nah, I don't agree, but whatever...

    You admit that the 700p has problems...you blame it on "early adopters", as if its their fault. In your world, its okay to release an inferior product, after all, "..they are early adopters, shame on them, they should have known better."
    I never said that at all. What I said was that by being an early-adopter, we didn't have the luxury of product reviews, and so bought a new device not knowing whether it was ready for prime-time. I never said we were to blame...

    And yes, I am suggesting that Palm introduced the 700p as a direct replacement for the 650.
    True, they did do that, but Sprint certaintly didn't offer ME any sort of buy-back. They just offered to sell me a new 700p at a discount. In fact, we discussed it, and the rep suggested I'd do better selling on eBay, which is exactly what I did.

    "Lets get that ROM upgrade on the street and get those early adopters off our backs! Jeeez, their even convincing people not to buy a Treo, until after the first ROM update!!!"

    Rock on, brother, its gonna be okay....
    Now you're talking! I totally agree; we should badger Palm to fix it so the early adopters will quit whining!

    I'm rockin' as we speak... cheers!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl
    Why should I have to buy new versions of or update all of my current software just because I bought a newer Treo?

    What if a computer manufacturer sold you a new model computer with Windows XP service pack 2 to replace your 1.5 year old computer with Windows XP service pack 1 (older version of same model from the same manufacturer) that was supposed to be faster and better? Would you expect to have to buy new software?
    You're kidding right... ? SP2 broke over 200 programs ! They were all fixed in a matter of weeks (soem months) and so will the Palm programs.

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130

    You know why they have service packs....cause these are fixes to things that weren't done right in the first place....there's been 45 "critical updates" since SP2. Go and buy a Vista computer on the day it's released and count your problems.

    Wanna fire up that Firewire 800 device ....hey whaddya mean my firewire 400 devcies will stop working once I install the firewire 800 driver ?...yep that's the ticket, pick one 400 or 800 not both.

    Nobody expects you to buy new programs. You are entitled to patched and updates to programs when a new OS upgrade or new hardware comes out. has any software vendor said "No, you gotta pay for the patch " ?

    If you want to live on the bleeding edge and be the 1st boy on da block with a new toy:

    1. Expect some hardware glitches that may or may not be worked out by ROM upgrades....example, 1st out the gate Sprint 650 had low volume problems which other carrier's models didn't have.

    2. Expect some OS and driver related issues that will be worked out via ROM upgrades...too many examples to mention

    3. Expect to wait a few weeks, months for some, while program vendors work out the kinks.....just follow the updates on the palmfocus compatability list.

    Me I like to tinker and have beta tested for many outfits over the years... back in the days when there was payment (well at least free software / hardware) involved. But stuff that helps me make a living...that I don't wanna play with.......Corporate IT types learn in "IT Management 101" that "anything before Service Pack 3 is a beta". For my Treos, I'll wait till they around 3-6 months before I jump on....I prefer to let others do the bleeding as I don't have time for it.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by njpilot911
    Not that anyone here asked for your sympathy to begin with, but I didn't buy the Treo 700p to be a beta tester. Many here bought the 700p, because of a great experience with the 650. If I hated my 650, why on earth would I buy a 700p?



    jeff
    Did you have a 650 at the beginning? It was WAY slower and less stable than the 700p is now. If I based my buying decision on my early impressions of the 650, I would never buy another Treo. There were, however, several firmware updates that made the 650 faster and much more stable. I agree that the issues need to be discussed so that Palm fixes everything in firmware updates. Let's keep up the discussion and respect each other's opinions. If you like it, great, keep it. If you hate it, return it and move on. On balance, we all have to decide whether the improvements in data speed and memory beat out the problems. For me, they do. I don't need Wifi capability. Ptunes works as long as I don't run Chatter in the background. It may be an evolutionary upgrade rather than a revolutionary upgrade but I am fine with that. If there are this many perceived problems with an evolutionary device, can you imagine how awful the revolutionary device would be?
  4. #44  
    I'm sure that I'll get another 700p in a few months after Palm fixes all of the problems with it, but the 650 is clearly better until then. The power, speed, battery life, and wealth of third-party apps on the 650 trounce the couple of things that the 700p does well. That will hopefully change in a few months, but we'll see.

    I'm also anxious to see when the first EVDO Rel.A phones are going to be released. That will be a HUGE upgrade for a lot of us because it allows voice and data at the same time.
  5. #45  
    I have been visiting treocentral for years now…ever since I bought the treo 300. My first time posting.

    I want to thank everyone here for providing so much useful information. It has made my treo experience very fulfilling indeed.

    I went from the 300 to the 600. Skipped the 650…better screen and bt were not enough to make me put out the bucks to switch.

    My contract with Sprint was up in April so I got a great deal for the 700 (and a Samsung A920 for my wife…$129 for both) that it was a no-brainer to get the 700.

    I am a salesman on the road so e-mail, contact, calendar, web browsing, spreadsheet and word processing are paramount on my list.

    After reading some of the problems others have experienced I was prepared for the worst. I can appreciate clipcarl being pretty pissed when all has gone wrong for him.

    Sorry to say clipcarl (and very happy for me) I have not had any problems. I had a little hick-up when I was not careful loading Agendus and upon loading that program allowed it to assign buttons. That changed the phone button. A quick hard re-set cleared that up and I went about following the “clean install” method I learned on this very site.

    The second most useful program I used on the 600 was documents to go so it was wonderful for me that it is now on rom.

    I have not had to soft reset even once. On demand works without a hitch. A new BT headset worked immediately. My Snapper mail loaded up and works flawlessly. I never have had the “white screen of death”. I do not see unusual times to switch from one program to another

    Almost everything I want to do is done faster. When I turn on Agendus…it have a little shorter white screen than I did with the 600. Evdo is much faster. I would never use Blazer with the 600 because it was like watching paint dry. I used Eudora. Eudora on the 700 is MUCH faster than the 600.

    Maybe I am just lucky…but I do not have the same experience that others have. I LOVE this phone!!
  6. #46  
    coming from an i500, I hate the treo in general. It's big and bulky, and being in its third generation it has changed very little, and I don't mean that in a good way. By now the antenna should be integrated, the SD slot should be better integrated meaning you shouldn't have a risk of it popping out. Recess it more or have a sliding cover. I wouldn't even mind it inside the battery case. There's no reason it needs to be as thick as it is. I think its width could be streamlined a touch as well. The stupid Hollywood pics and rumors are all floating around. I feel like the only reason the 700p was released was to rush an EVDO treo to the market and keep people satiated (and milk more money out of their customers) until the Hollywood version came out. Yes the Moto Q and Samsung i320 are not treo killers, but they are a damn good showing of what could be. And the fact that these are offically announced while after three tries, Palm still couldn't do anything to reduce the size is just wrong. And even looking at the Hollywood pics, the sd slot still is unprotected with the card protruding slightly.

    And having upgraded from the i500, it seems all I did was trade in an old set of workarounds for ones. For me, the only thing it really gave me was evdo and much improved text messaging at the expense of almost twice the mass and weight.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    has any software vendor said "No, you gotta pay for the patch " ?
    JuneFabrics has done this with PDAnet, for the Treo 300, 600, 650, and now the 700p. Most other vendors dont, and JuneFabrics has finally stopped charging full price for the first time with the 700p release.

    Most vendors try to work with early adoptors and welcome their feedback.
    I'm still sticking with my 600, but I was a 300 early adoptor, because I saw value back then.

    The best time to buy Treos is when the list price is reduced from ~$600 to ~400 in my opinion. Lst the buyer beware. Don't expect Palm to caution you not to be foolisn with your money!
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by notacon
    I would never use Blazer with the 600 because it was like watching paint dry. I used Eudora. Eudora on the 700 is MUCH faster than the 600.
    You should try Xiino. Worked well on the 300 and 600. I never had a 650. I think the 650 version will work with the 700.
  9. #49  
    the treo is my first palm phone since the i330, but i have always used palm devices. although i am sure there are some problems purely associated with the palm, you can't always blame palm for problems associated with 3rd party apps.

    but what i really find amusing is the thread starter saying he is annoyed at the people singing the praises of their treo. that, to me, is talking out of both sides of the mouth. if a person has a right to complain about a product, doesn't another person have the SAME right to sing it's praises?

    now, if i were having problems with the device itself, i would be pissed too. i have not had any problems with my new treo. i only have 4 or 5, 3rd party apps on it..and it works great so far...evedo rocks...plus i only paid $119 for it
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    You're kidding right... ? SP2 broke over 200 programs ! They were all fixed in a matter of weeks (soem months) and so will the Palm programs.
    I dunno... Breaking just 200 out of several hundred thousand Windows programs sounds like pretty good compatibility to me...
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by waterfrontmgmt
    but what i really find amusing is the thread starter saying he is annoyed at the people singing the praises of their treo. that, to me, is talking out of both sides of the mouth. if a person has a right to complain about a product, doesn't another person have the SAME right to sing it's praises?
    Do not make things up and attribute them to me! I never said there is anything wrong with people singing the praises of the Treo. Heck, I sing it's praises most of the time myself. There is a lot to praise on the Treos including the 700p. If there weren't I woudn't have bought multiple Treos over the last few years.

    What I actually said is that I'm tired of people pretending that there is nothing wrong with the 700p when there clearly are real and significant problems. Here is what I said just so there is no confusion:

    "I'm getting annoyed reading all of these posts from Palm apologists who suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Treo 700p and all the problems are the fault of the application vendors."

    Where do I say I don't like people singing the praises of the Treo?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl
    I dunno... Breaking just 200 out of several hundred thousand Windows programs sounds like pretty good compatibility to me...
    Yes, but they were major programs. Plus the SP2 ate my MS Office, go figure!! I had to uninstall most components just to get the computer to work. I think I'm going to start using it again fully, since all the patches came out.
  13. Lee B's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cruelpupet
    While I'm mostly happy with my 700P there are times that I look over at my 600 (yes Treo 600 thats not a typo) and think about switching back.
    My 600, after more than two years that were pretty good on the whole, seemed to give up the ghost as soon as my 700p arrived. Suddenly, all calls were dropping within ten seconds, and I couldn't hear them anyway because audio disappeared. But PDA and email functions stayed solid.

    But even if the 600 were still in top form, I can't imagine going back. I was an early adopter on the 600 (October, 2003), and it was a rough ride early on. The 700p out-of-the box experience has been much smoother for me. Everything that worked on the 600 works as well or better on the 700, the EVDO speeds are a big improvement, Docs to go in rom is cool, and the 700 gives me the screen that 650 users have had all along.

    It's clear that early-user experiences on the 700 are all over the map. Some are having an awful time, and others, like me, are having a great ride. It's probably going to take a while to sort out the different theories about why that's so -- design issues, erratic build quality in early units, 3rd-party software issues, etc.

    Meanwhile, I don't see the point in calling one another whiners or apologists. I figure that people who say their experience sucks, and those who say it's great, are both telling the truth. Both groups help us learn about the possibilities and pitfalls in this device that some of us love and others love to hate.
  14. msSwitch's Avatar
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    #54  
    I'm vaguely reminded of the iPod's entry into the world of Windows when Apple began to take on the Gates' Club by creating an iPod that would work with a PC. People using RCA, Samsung, Archos, CreativeLabs and other MP3 players made a big stink about how inferior the iPod was to their precious Windows compatible players... Battery issues, freezes, resets, propietary software and forcing someone to buy music from iTunes only - oh my! It'll never catch on. A few short years later, after many of the kinks have been worked out, us iPod originators are none the worse for the wear. I believe we'll all look back at the Treo one day and say, "I remember when..." I guess I just enjoy being on the cutting-edge of greatness. I'll stick with my Treo and enjoy the ride - bumps and bruises - because each iteration gets closer to perfection and for me its still the thrill of chasing the "next new thing". Hey, we all have our vices, right?
  15. #55  
    you guys can complain all you want but this phone is way better then the 700w...that thing was a nightmare!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclancy
    ... and JuneFabrics has finally stopped charging full price for the first time with the 700p release ...
    That's not quite true. I bought the 600 version, and got a discount on the 650 version. They've promised a discount on the 700P version, but I'm waiting to see how stable it is first.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooose
    It's all very subjective. I agree that there are some problems and the 700p is not perfect but the problems just aren't that big a deal to me. I like the faster data and more memory. The fact that Verichat doesn't work and that there is a small lag when I switch to some apps just doesn't bug m










































































































































































































    e. If I shutdown Chatter, Ptunes does not skip and that is a compromise that I am fine with. For the 40 minute busride home, I don't care about whether my boss can instantly send me an email. Again, it's all subjective. For some people, the things I mentioned are a big deal and they have every right to complain. Just don't label me a Palm apologist for liking my new 700p despite its issues.
    Some important and real issues are bought out with His Post! I do hope that Palm addreses these issues before 6 months like they did with the 650 in regards to the memory issue before it was fixed. I always want bigger and better but we are clearly beta testers and Palm needs us to point out the areas. My Palm has gone into the dreaded memory loop about 8 x's now and I am able to fix quickly with Resco Backup. I have noticed one program is noive remote is one of my culprits!!
  18. #58  
    Too bad most of you weren't around in the Handspring days of Visor phone and first generation Treos. ALthough I love my phone, Palm is not keeping up with the times, updates are taking too long.

    Faster data which is outside of Palms realm and finally we are excited over this measly more memory. We are pathetic.

    If ever you have a chance to talk to a Handspring Developer that is still with Palm, ask him about company dynamics, I have and it is very apparent that the creativity and responsiveness are gone.

    Issues are real, and these issues are slowly solved. I have been on the for front of every phone release and I am sitting the 700P out this time. I am burned out on this cheerleading for slow and limited response.
  19. #59  
    The 700p (when I receive it the day after tomorrow) will be my first Treo ever (actually my first smartphone for that matter). I've played around with 650s before and from what I've seen I'm not surprised that so many people upgrading from the 650 are as dissappionted as they seem to be with the 700p; as the only major change that could have any sort of impact on how the device is used is EVDO (and even that depends on where you use it). I'd probably sit this out too if I was a 650 owner.

    That having been said, I've used a couple of 700ps in stores and to me everything seems fine on the device where it matters. Thinking back I can't remember a single electronics device that didn't have it's fair share of issues when it first came out. There is always the "big issue" in this case it sounds like the speed issue, and then other more trivial issues (screen hue, keyboard backlighting color... etc) that come up in forums. Every device I've ever followed in this way has had this, with some problems being more severe and crippling than others. I'm not saying that this is a good or excusable trend in the electronics industry, but I'm saying that it being this early in the 700p's lifecycle, it's probably too early to be condemning it yet. If none of these issues have been addressed 6 months from now.... then I'd start to see the 700p a mediocre product...

    Although in reality it is, in the end, just a phone/organizer and the only really critical functions are the phone, the PIM functions, the email, and the Internet. As long as those work well it will never be a total dissaster as far as the average Joe smartphone user is concerned.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajabbari
    Although in reality it is, in the end, just a phone/organizer and the only really critical functions are the phone, the PIM functions, the email, and the Internet. As long as those work well it will never be a total dissaster as far as the average Joe smartphone user is concerned.
    But the problem is, it's this same attitude that keeps Palm from realizing that they're not putting much new on the table. They realize that they don't have to be pioneers or even be that creative any more, they just have to add a few pieces here and there and they're good to go. That's why there are people angry about the 700p....a general lack of features that the Treo should have had by now (some kind of wifi, BT 2.0 or at least better BT in general, built in voice dialing, etc.) combined with the bugs that some people are experience doesn't make people happy, especially when you tell them you want $650 plus tax for your device.

    One seriously has to wonder what Palm did in the time between the 650 release and the 700p release....when you consider the minimal differences between the two, it makes one think that they spent a large part of that time doing nothing...
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