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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by socomon
    Yup - that is exactly what I expect will happen when I buy windows 64 bit.

    ...
    Are you really suggesting that the move from PalmOS 5.4.5 to 5.4.9 is equivalent to the huge jump from 32bit Windows to 64bit? Please be serious!
  2. #22  
    It's not the size of the jump - the fact is that the 3rd party code was written for a different Palm device - period. It's not Palm's fault. It's not the developer's fault. It the the fault of users who insist on using the code before it is re-written and certified for the new platform. If you want to do that, it is fine, but don't whine about the outcome.

    Be serious yourself.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by socomon
    It's not the size of the jump - the fact is that the 3rd party code was written for a different Palm device - period. It's not Palm's fault. It's not the developer's fault. It the the fault of users who insist on using the code before it is re-written and certified for the new platform. If you want to do that, it is fine, but don't whine about the outcome.

    Be serious yourself.
    A basic assumption you are making is not true. In general apps aren't tailor-made for a specific device. They are written generically for any PalmOS(5) device. Some apps might have a little Treo specific code to handle the 5-way or other device-specific features but for the most part apps are written to target any device that has the PalmOS(5) API. So it is not reasonable that all applications should have to be "re-written and certified for the new platform" any more than if all of your Windows software had to be re-written and certified for the exact model of your new Dell!
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by clipcarl
    A basic assumption you are making is not true. In general apps aren't tailor-made for a specific device. They are written generically for any PalmOS(5) device.
    Yeah they are generally written for Palm OS. The problem is the little details like NVFS, interoperability with built-in Palm apps, new Blazer code, new radio, etc, new bluetooth stack, etc. All the minor details that go into making a program work.


    Give up your windows and PC analogies. They just don't work for in this context. This isn't the device for you. Return it.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by socomon
    Yeah they are generally written for Palm OS. The problem is the little details like NVFS, interoperability with built-in Palm apps, new Blazer code, new radio, etc, new bluetooth stack, etc. All the minor details that go into making a program work.


    Give up your windows and PC analogies. They just don't work for in this context. This isn't the device for you. Return it.
    First, the 650 used NVFS just like the 700p so you can throw that argument out the window. Please tell me what a new radio, a new bluetooth stack and changes in Blazer have to do with whether programs that don't touch any of that stuff work properly? Such as PocketTunes or Uninstall? I assure you that on my desktop my favorite media player will still work even if I buy a new computer with different network and sound cards.

    It is a good analogy because the fact is the 700p is a computer just like your desktop computer. I have written software for both handheld computers and desktop computers and I can tell you the basic premise for writing software for both is the same. You write the software to interact with a particular OS's APIs and don't write to talk to specific hardware (unless you're writing a device driver or something similar).

    You are simply wrong.
  6. #26  
    The problem is with third party applications that aren't following Palm's published APIs. They are hacking the Treos, to add functionality that isn't exposed to the developers. (e.g. P-tunes was customized for the 700p, because there is no API for listening to music in the background that is being streamed off the internet).

    The size of the stack/heap, the evdo radio, these are major changes to the internals. Palm developers are pushing the envelope by doing internal coding to make the phone do what it wasn't "designed" to do.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy they are doing it, but until they test their code on a 700p, they can't certify that it will work the same as on a 650. (I learned my lesson and am awaiting certifications. I too had performance issues until I went back to a stock 700p with only certified applications.)

    P.S. - Anything that operates in the background, or is always resident should be considered suspect.
  7.    #27  
    Ummm. Wow. I leave for one day and a fight breaks out.

    Umm I ran a speed test and this is what it spit out:

    Speed Test. Measures time of 10000 keypress events extraction from queue. Time in tics 415. time in secs 4.

    What does that mean? Good or bad?
    Last edited by BabelFish; 06/13/2006 at 05:23 PM.
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  8.    #28  
    I ran mine again and my number was 408 (between that and the other number) for 4 seconds, my wifes phone was 407 for 4 seconds. What do those numbers mean?
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  9. #29  
    What exactly are you guys running in palm internals? I ran the speed test and got "time in tics 102, time in secs 1"
    Jimmie Geddes
  10. #30  
    OK Carl - you win, the 700P SUCKS. Palm is evil. Happier now? Done whining?

    They were just examples of things that change from one device to the next. Some programs touch on those things other programs touch on other changes.
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    What exactly are you guys running in palm internals? I ran the speed test and got "time in tics 102, time in secs 1"
    i'm running the speed test. if I calculate my number it comes out to the same as yours (for 1 second). but why does mine go for 4 seconds and yours 1 second.
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by socomon
    What does Pbench measure differently than Palm Internals?
    It tests the data access speed. Test with pbench and speedy and you'll see a big difference between the 650 and the 700p.

    Again, the 700p's slowness has nothing to do with third-party apps. They will tend to make it even slower though.
  13. #33  
    let me ask a stupid ? being that this is my first treo....

    when the treo is sync to your computer is everything that is on your treo copied to the computer,......preferences, contacts, games, ringers, applications, pictures....?

    Are the items only on the palm backed up and not what is on the memory card?

    Is all that under the folder c/program files/palm/user name ?

    a good idea would be to copy that folder to another hard drive if u have one incase your primary hard drive crashes?

    Lets say u delete a game off your treo, then when u go to sync with PC is it also deleted off your pc as well ?

    Let say u deleted something off your treo by accident and u want to sync back to an earlier time when the item was on the treo, is that possible?

    I was thinking that it is always from the treo to the computer, that direction only but then when u hard reset the treo u can sync it up with pc to get all the info back on it so in that aspect it has to be 2way...

    can anyone clarify
  14. #34  
    I'm running chatter, agendus, and a few other apps. IS my score good or bad?

    "time in tics 102, time in secs 1"
    Jimmie Geddes
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    I'm running chatter, agendus, and a few other apps. IS my score good or bad?

    "time in tics 102, time in secs 1"
    yeah.. same question.

    I get 408 - 430 for 4 seconds. why does mine do 4 seconds and Jimmie does 1 second?
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  16. Chazzan's Avatar
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    I'm running chatter, agendus, and a few other apps. IS my score good or bad?

    "time in tics 102, time in secs 1"
    You're score is good. I used to get 1 but I get 4 now after installing butler. Butler is a hede program and significantly slows this machine down. I think updates will fix this.
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chazzan
    You're score is good. I used to get 1 but I get 4 now after installing butler. Butler is a hede program and significantly slows this machine down. I think updates will fix this.
    so you are saying that because I have butler installed my test will show 4 seconds? Jimmie, do you have butler installed?

    And when do these so-called palm updates come out.
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  18. #38  
    PalmInternals basically tests the programs on your device. It lists what's running and how those programs are affecting your speed. Programs that list in HEDE are generally the ones that will slow you down.

    PalmInternals tests your software while pBench and Speedy test your device.
  19. #39  
    I don't know much about that test or what significance (if any) it has. I do know that based on my experience and the experience of others that the more apps and data you load on the 700 the slower it gets. For example, after a hard reset to completely wipe clean the device my score was about 100 tics / 1 sec. Now, after loading my 17MB worth of data and apps, my score is 3718 tics / 37 secs. Even though my 700p is noticeably slower with all my apps and data installed, I'm not sure it's 37 times slower! So I'm not sure about this benchmark.

    Now, if I load the same apps on my 650 my score remains stable at 111 tics / 1 sec so clearly something is very wrong with the 700p (at least according to this benchmark).

    Just for fun I ran the test on both units while PocketTunes played the same song in the background. On the 650 it still scored 366 tics / 4 secs. On the 700p it scored a whopping 6086 tics / 61 secs.

    Clearly something is very wrong with the 700p compared to the 650.
  20.    #40  
    My Speedy Test shows 1515. So what is that telling me?

    http://www.aldweb.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=19
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
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