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  1. heckj's Avatar
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    #21  
    I did have lots of trouble with activesync and bluetooth but this has all been solved with the new activesync beta. Since running this beta the activesync has been working flawless.
  2.    #22  
    WOW... in the amount of time I wrote that I got 12 posts!
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by heckj
    I give you one there.
    No you didn't.

    "The P and W have been developed for different users."

    That's not a reason why the w is more functional than the p, it's just a general statement about the target markets of both devices. Please explain to us how the w is more functional.

    In all fairness, we will not be able to answer this question for a few months atleast, until P users can get a fair idea of what is actually offered in the new operating system.
    If you've used the 650, watched the 700p videos, or used the Palm 700p simulator, you already have an idea of what the 700p offers. Even before that, the specifications are enough to make most users choose the 700p over the 700w.
  4.    #24  
    Can anyone add to IsLNdbOi's list? and can you listen to music in the background while doing other things on the 700p?
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  5. cadams's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    Unless you really need WM5, get the 700p. Personally, I prefer 700p because it has a higher screen resolution and a cheaper data plan (via Sprint).
    If you are determining which is better because of the price of data and both will be on Sprint using the same data plans that is a very poor factor to judge which is better.
  6. heckj's Avatar
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    #26  
    First of all you misunderstood my "I give you one there comment", I was saying you were right, gave you some props.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by heckj
    First of all you misunderstood my "I give you one there comment", I was saying you were right, gave you some props.
    My bad.. I still haven't opened my eyes yet.. I thought it said I gave you one..
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Trevante
    I'm pretty sure you can play music in the background with both the 650 and 700p... I don't have either to test this out, but maybe someone else can confirm this for us.
    Palm OS devices have had the ability to run a background audio "thread" since the debut of OS 5. The Treo 650, and of course 700p, are no exception.

    The kernel that POS is based on, from Kadak, does support multitasking. However it is cooperative and not preemptive multitasking (like Windows 3.1 or pre-OSX Mac OS).

    Indeed POS itself uses multitasking for many OS functions. But up until OS 5 it didn't expose any other background threads to application developers (that was a license restriction).

    Now I personally don't believe the Kadak kernel to be good enough for serious multitasking. Even with a simple MP3 playing in the background, I can reliably cause it to stutter by opening Docs-to-Go from SD, or from a variety of other actions.

    Of course we all know where Access is headed with the Palm OS, and if ALP ever sees the light of day (Cobalt anyone?), and if Palm uses it, we will finally have true preemptive multitasking on a Palm device (probably not for legacy apps).

    That being said, I don't find lack of multitasking to be a major issue on a PDA phone. Sure I wouldn't mind letting Blazer do its thing while I do something else. But even then, I fault Blazer and CDMA 1x lag and throughput more than anything else (e.g., I don't have a problem waiting for Opera Mini to render a page--and that's without EV-DO).


    --
    Mike
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    Of course we all know where Access is headed with the Palm OS
    I am assuming you mean Linux or am I way off?
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by BabelFish
    I am assuming you mean Linux or am I way off?
    You are correct.

    ALP = Access Linux Platform
    http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4663700447.html


    Regards,
    Mike
  11. #31  
    IIRC, Sony had some OS4 Palm OS devices that allowed for background music, likely due to a dedicated audio chip. And the OS4 Treo 300 let you carry on a phone conversation while firing up any other app. Clever developers have hacked away at OS5 to allow for background email fetching or IM stay-alive / notification. The Palm can't multitask any app of the user's choosing, though. But I'll tell you, this may be one of those things where we find out later that this "feature" (multitasking) that we've been clamoring for ends up causing our responsive Palm OS devices to become sluggish. So do you want a snappy not-quite-multitasking device or a somewhat sluggish multitasking device? We may not be able to have both until mobile CPU speeds get another boost.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  12. Haggar's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    But I'll tell you, this may be one of those things where we find out later that this "feature" (multitasking) that we've been clamoring for ends up causing our responsive Palm OS devices to become sluggish. So do you want a snappy not-quite-multitasking device or a somewhat sluggish multitasking device? We may not be able to have both until mobile CPU speeds get another boost.
    This think this is kinda of the crux of why I think the 700P is a great device compared to the W....I found my 650 was way faster than the 700W...and from all the reviews I've read it sounds like the 700P is faster than the 650.

    To answer the original question..."which is better?" really depends on how you plan to use your device.

    I use my Treo about 90% of the time for business -- as a phone, contact manager, and portable "office doc" device I don't think there's a finer device than my 650 (cause the 700P isn't out yet!).

    Some biz folks *need* push e-mail...so MS's push solution may be better in that respect, but I love using Good's application on my Treo to keep my exchange server synced up with my Treo 24/7....and MS's solution isn't enough to push me to the dark side just yet...

    I also use my Treo about 10% of the time for "play" -- as an MP3 player, to watch videos...and play games. As a "play" device I think the W and the WM5 world in general probably has the edge. From the consumers perspective I think multimedia aps tend to run better in WM5 -- but from a programmer's perspective I think Microsoft has legions of developers and deveopment tools that will continue to push it further and further ahead of Palm with regard to "entertainment" on a mobile device.
  13.    #33  
    if palm ever went to linux do you feel the gap between p and w would shrink in regards to the "entertainment" features and stuff? would the 700p most likely be able to upgrade its OS to the new one if one ever came out. I am assuming the 650 had several versions of the OS when it was out.
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    IIRC, Sony had some OS4 Palm OS devices that allowed for background music, likely due to a dedicated audio chip.
    Not only likely, but "definitely." That was essentially an MP3 player attached to a Palm OS device.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    And the OS4 Treo 300 let you carry on a phone conversation while firing up any other app.
    Of course. If we look at it that way, the 700p is indeed "multitasking." But it's doing it by using two CPUs: one for the phone and one for the Palm OS. The Treo's "Palm" CPU isn't doing real-time lossy sound encoding and decoding, among other things--the "phone" CPU is doing that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Clever developers have hacked away at OS5 to allow for background email fetching or IM stay-alive / notification.
    They all pretty much use the same technique, and it's not really a "hack" in the traditional sense (and I don't mean Palm-type "hack").


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    The Palm can't multitask any app of the user's choosing, though.
    Correct, and even Cobalt wasn't going to do that. Apps were going to have to be specifically written to multitask.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    But I'll tell you, this may be one of those things where we find out later that this "feature" (multitasking) that we've been clamoring for ends up causing our responsive Palm OS devices to become sluggish.
    It depends how it is implemented. If it's implemented in the manner WM handles it, I won't like it. But if it's limited to specific apps that benefit from multitasking on a PDA, I wouldn't mind having it.

    But adding it just for the sake of adding is, IMO, not really a good idea. (I don't see it happening that way though.)


    --
    Mike
    Last edited by Tinman!; 05/18/2006 at 08:40 PM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BabelFish
    if palm ever went to linux do you feel the gap between p and w would shrink in regards to the "entertainment" features and stuff? would the 700p most likely be able to upgrade its OS to the new one if one ever came out. I am assuming the 650 had several versions of the OS when it was out.
    It's unlikely that the 700p will ever run ALP, at least officially (by "officially" I mean supported by not only Palm, but the carriers themselves). Even though ALP will reportedly run "properly written" Garnet applications, there does not seem to be support for armlets (ARM subroutines running under OS 5, in order to more-directly leverage the ARM CPU).

    While the 650 has had many updates, there really wasn't any major OS releases involved. I expect the 700p will follow a similar path, but (hopefully) without the growing pains that surrounded the 650.


    --
    Mike
  16.    #36  
    Is my assumption correct that the next two models from Palm will be for the GSM format and not CDMA? Or is it worth waiting to see what is in store for the next two phones coming out this year? IYHO
    "So long and thanks for all the Treos!"
  17. #37  
    Like Haggar, I am a business-only user; that is, I don't play tunes, watch videos, play games or do any of the fun stuff that many of you do. This disclaimer is just so you know where my interests lie.

    I've had the 700w for about 3 months now and have bought every conceivable add-on app I could find to emulate my 2 years with the 650. From my standpoint, the 700w falls way short, and I assume the advantage that the 650 has will even increase with the 700p. Here's my short list:

    Activesync is a joke. You never know whether it will work or not, it loses partnerships regularly, and only allows syncing to 2 computers.

    Stylus usage is much, much increased over the 650. With my 650, I almost never had to pull out the stylus.

    3rd party apps are ok, but nowhere near the quality of 3rd party Palm apps.

    pOutlook has the annoying habit of changing all your appt times when you change time zones. Really! There is no way around this unless you turn off the ability to display network time. That means that, since I live in ET, when I travel to PT, my clock is off by 3 hours. Really!

    If you don't do any travelling and need to sync to only one computer and don't mind using the stylus regularly, then the 700w is for you. For me, the day the 700p hits VZW, the 700w goes on eBay.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarlin
    pOutlook has the annoying habit of changing all your appt times when you change time zones. Really! There is no way around this unless you turn off the ability to display network time. That means that, since I live in ET, when I travel to PT, my clock is off by 3 hours. Really!
    I agree with your sentiments.

    And I should note that I got stuck in Tulsa, OK awhile back due to that time-zone "feature." I plugged in the time of my departure flight, as an appointment, when I booked the trip. The WM device changed my "appointment" to reflect the new time-zone. I missed my flight, and it was the last one of the day. Did I mention there were no hotel rooms available and the airport kicked me out into the street? Or that my rental car, long since returned, was not available when I went back (nor any other car)?

    Please note that you should be able to schedule an appointment and choose the time-zone it is in. But I find the "change appointment time by default" to be horrible.

    Others disagree. One argument in favor of that behavior would be, say, a weekly conference call that occurs at noon (in your home time-zone). If the appointment's time stayed at noon, and you are in a different time-zone, you'd miss the conference call (or be too early). I personally find this to be a weak argument, and prefer Palm's method, but I offer it only as a "devil's advocate."


    --
    Mike
    Last edited by Tinman!; 05/18/2006 at 06:50 PM.
  19. Haggar's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarlin
    Activesync is a joke. You never know whether it will work or not, it loses partnerships regularly, and only allows syncing to 2 computers.
    THANK YOU! I totally forgot to mention %@&*!! Activesync!! In theory it sounds great...it syncs in the background keeping you up to date the entire time you're docked...

    In practice, as you said, you never knew when (or if) it was going to work. It consistently froze up my desktop version of Outlook...and other applications that hooked to Outlook or even IE. Activesync has gotten much better in the last few versions...but that isn't saying much. It's a memory hog that slows down your system and literally freezes it up at times....and this is on a very decent Pentium 4 system with lots of RAM!
  20. heckj's Avatar
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    #40  
    try the new beta version, works great
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