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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    You're absolutely right. And that's why they are succeeding so well!

    If you want to appeal to techno geeks you'll get killed in the market space...just take a look at any tecno-forum (like TC!) and you'll see that folks like us simply cannot be satisfied. If the 700P came with Wi-Fi and had 1GB of memory and a 1Ghz processor...we'd all STILL have a reason to ***** and moan...

    But the "average joe" simply doesn't care. If it works, that's all they care about. Can they play their music (does it have to orb or ogg files? nope...just has to be a "music file"...)...can they send/receive a call...can they put their 12 names/addresses in their (as Ed referenced)...

    As long as you appeal to the masses you're going to SELL PRODUCT. Let's not forget that Palm won't be around if they don't sell product. So having the uber-geek toy of the century means absolutely nothing.

    BTW - am I saying I don't WANT all bells and whistles...heck no! I want Wi-Fi and bluetooth dialing and all that jazz, too! But the vast majority of the market simply doesn't care! If they can connect a BT headset and it works -- cool. If they get broadband speeds when they are out and about...double cool. But they sure as heck could care less how much RAM/ROM/VRAM/BUTTRAM or anything else is inside the Treo as long as it works...


    I completely disagree with this.

    if 'joe *****' wants to pay $10 for 5 apples
    and 'john techie' wants to pay $10 for 6 apples..
    why not sell 6 apples and get both of their money?


    palm wont give us what we want because they could care less about what we want. its that simple.
    -tgwaste
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    ...I'm not saying that Palm shouldn't be innovative...but innovation for innovation's sake doesn't mean much in the consumer market. If your innovations mean higher prices and more complexity -- you'll end up selling your products to monkeys who drive convertibles and that's about it.
    some of us, frankly, find this species chauvinism offensive...

    nevertheless -- for CDMAers, I concede that this iteration of the Treo is an upgrade -- they for the first time will have a usable internet capable device -- something GSMers have had since Edge was widely deployed.

    And there are other refinements, additions, and TWEAKS.

    If I didn't already have a 650, obviously this would be what I'd buy.

    But I can't imagine that many GSMers will upgrade when and if a 700P GSM escapes from Palm -- unless it includes at least Wifi drivers.
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/17/2006 at 11:05 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    some of us, frankly, find this species chauvinism offensive...

    nevertheless -- for CDMAers, I concede that this iteration of the Treo is an upgrade -- they first time will have a usuable internet capable device -- something GSMers have had since Edge was widely deployed.

    And there are other refinement, additions, and TWEAKS.

    If I didn't already have a 650, obviously this would be what I'd buy.

    But I can't imagine that many GSMers will upgrade when and if a 700P GSM escapes from Palm -- unless it includes at least Wifi drivers.

    Being a TMobile GSMer myself I am starting to get nervous that the 700p GSM isnt going to happen

    I would buy it (or rather get my company to buy it for me \
    -tgwaste
  4. #64  
    You might not get the 700p, but you will get Hollywood.
    Jimmie Geddes
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    You might not get the 700p, but you will get Hollywood.
    I thought the Hollywood was going to be the less expensive 'trimmed down' version of the 700P. Am I wrong in this assumption? What is the Hollywood boasting?
    -tgwaste
  6. #66  
    Lowrider is going to be trimmed down lower version. Hollywood is going to be antenna-less GSM Treo, supposedly with a thinner design.
    Jimmie Geddes
  7. Haggar's Avatar
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by tgwaste
    I completely disagree with this.

    if 'joe *****' wants to pay $10 for 5 apples
    and 'john techie' wants to pay $10 for 6 apples..
    why not sell 6 apples and get both of their money?


    palm wont give us what we want because they could care less about what we want. its that simple.
    You exemlpefy the reason why you don't want to sell 6 apples to "john techie" -- because john techie is going to ***** and moan that he's been reading in "Apples Today Journal" that there's a new genetic engineering process which uniformly creates an exact shade of brown for all stems. Further, there's process that guarantees that each apple will be 1.67% larger and .068% tasiter. "john techie" is going to DEMAND that these proceses be used and then only pay $1 more for the 6 apples that have this new technology...when in fact it costs 96 cents to add all this to the apples.

    "john techie" is then going to get on "Apple Central" and ***** and moan in all the forums that it's stupid that they didn't include this simple genetic process in the creation of the apples and that other apple growers are seeing the light and engineering their apples to this higher standard. Mind you, he doesn't think those apples taste as good as these apples...but the fact is, the other apples include the genetic engineering that makes them superior. Eventhough the other growers don't sell as many apples because they don't taste as good, the fact that this important technology was not included in the apples makes them "suck".

    Now, when Apple 2.0 comes out..."joe techie" is going to say... "hmm...Apple 1.0 was pretty good. This one looks good, too...and he probably buys your version of Apple 2.0" -- whereas "john techie" is going to whine about how Apple 1.0 sucked and Apple 2.0 doesn't include the latest genetic enhancements and therefore Apple 2.0 sucks, too.

    BTW - Out of 1 Million potential customers...there's 10,000 "john techies" out there and 990,000 "joes". For the 4 cents you're gunna make per unit does it really make sense to cater to john?

    What if, instead of trying to get the latest and greatest cutting edge technology in your apples you simply focus on creating a uniformly good tasting apple? A consistent experience that makes 90% of apple buyers extremely happy?

    Hmmm...gotta admit...I've never been an apple grower. This is all hypothetical. Quite odd, too. If you're still reading this post, why? You should have already moved on to the next post. This one isn't worth reading.

    You're still here? Wow. You are a glutteon for punishment. You must have a lot of spare time...
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    You exemlpefy the reason why you don't want to sell 6 apples to "john techie" -- because john techie is going to ***** and moan that he's been reading in "Apples Today Journal" that there's a new genetic engineering process which uniformly creates an exact shade of brown for all stems. Further, there's process that guarantees that each apple will be 1.67% larger and .068% tasiter. "john techie" is going to DEMAND that these proceses be used and then only pay $1 more for the 6 apples that have this new technology...when in fact it costs 96 cents to add all this to the apples.

    "john techie" is then going to get on "Apple Central" and ***** and moan in all the forums that it's stupid that they didn't include this simple genetic process in the creation of the apples and that other apple growers are seeing the light and engineering their apples to this higher standard. Mind you, he doesn't think those apples taste as good as these apples...but the fact is, the other apples include the genetic engineering that makes them superior. Eventhough the other growers don't sell as many apples because they don't taste as good, the fact that this important technology was not included in the apples makes them "suck".

    Now, when Apple 2.0 comes out..."joe techie" is going to say... "hmm...Apple 1.0 was pretty good. This one looks good, too...and he probably buys your version of Apple 2.0" -- whereas "john techie" is going to whine about how Apple 1.0 sucked and Apple 2.0 doesn't include the latest genetic enhancements and therefore Apple 2.0 sucks, too.

    BTW - Out of 1 Million potential customers...there's 10,000 "john techies" out there and 990,000 "joes". For the 4 cents you're gunna make per unit does it really make sense to cater to john?

    What if, instead of trying to get the latest and greatest cutting edge technology in your apples you simply focus on creating a uniformly good tasting apple? A consistent experience that makes 90% of apple buyers extremely happy?

    Hmmm...gotta admit...I've never been an apple grower. This is all hypothetical. Quite odd, too. If you're still reading this post, why? You should have already moved on to the next post. This one isn't worth reading.

    You're still here? Wow. You are a glutteon for punishment. You must have a lot of spare time...
    I expect the NEW treo to have the same functionality as the current smartphones coming out. This is not an over-the-top expectation.
    -tgwaste
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmie Geddes
    Lowrider is going to be trimmed down lower version. Hollywood is going to be antenna-less GSM Treo, supposedly with a thinner design.

    yes but isnt all of this speculation at this point?
    -tgwaste
  10. Haggar's Avatar
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    #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by tgwaste
    I expect the NEW treo to have the same functionality as the current smartphones coming out. This is not an over-the-top expectation.
    Agreed. Other than Wi-Fi, what specific features do other smartphones have that the 700p does not?
  11. #71  
    The 700p was also "speculation" ever since the Treo 700w came out. Look how that turned out,.
    Jimmie Geddes
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Agreed. Other than Wi-Fi, what specific features do other smartphones have that the 700p does not?
    memory? hell maybe an upgraded CPU? we've been at 312 for 3 years now?

    dont get me wrong I love the treo.. ill buy the next one and the next one and the next one.. but that doesnt stop be from feeling betrayed for my loyalty.
    -tgwaste
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by tgwaste
    memory? hell maybe an upgraded CPU? we've been at 312 for 3 years now?

    dont get me wrong I love the treo.. ill buy the next one and the next one and the next one.. but that doesnt stop be from feeling betrayed for my loyalty.
    yes but you are comparing POS devices to WM5 ones, POS IMHO uses the processing power it has a lot better and a lot more efficiently, so less power is required to do the same thing on the two platforms. But having said this i wouldnt say no, but its not at the top of my list.
    Nokia 3210 > Nokia 3310 >Palm Vx > Palm M105 >Treo 180g and Nokia 8850 > Treo 270 > Treo 600 > Sony TH55 > Tapwave Zodiac 2 > Treo 650 GSM > Imate KJam > Treo 750v

    Formerly Known As PRANKSTAR
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Agreed. Other than Wi-Fi, what specific features do other smartphones have that the 700p does not?
    Other than Wi-Fi ???

    I want WiFi !! --- I have beat up very high Palm staffers in trying to get them to deliver on this --

    (were it not for the restraining orders, I'd be doing it still...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/17/2006 at 12:43 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ...But I can't imagine that many GSMers will upgrade when and if a 700P GSM escapes from Palm -- unless it includes at least Wifi drivers.
    This is one of those rare tech areas where we disagree...drivers are not enough. Integrated WiFi is the benchmark for GSM converged devices (unless you step back to the Smartphone edition only).
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    This is one of those rare tech areas where we disagree...
    well, at least we're in agreement on non-tech stuff ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    drivers are not enough. Integrated WiFi is the benchmark for GSM converged devices (unless you step back to the Smartphone edition only).
    you 're right, it should be integrated -- for most of the comparable high end devices released during the last year its become almost a normal feature.

    And its been explained to me why its tough to integrate wifi into Garnet --

    But my next GSM phone will have wifi -- or sadly, its probably not going to be from Palm.
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/17/2006 at 12:57 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. jlczl's Avatar
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    #77  
    If it's tought to integrate into Garnet why do other Garnet devices have it? ie Palm TX
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  18. #78  
    It's hard to integrate it into a phone.
    Jimmie Geddes
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    If it's tought to integrate into Garnet why do other Garnet devices have it? ie Palm TX
    I'm not an expert, so I'd have to review my old notes to give a better explanation (so please forgive this very poor description), but the existing POS does not allow for a smooth transition between the different "radios" required in each mode (talking, data, Wifi). Its not a multitasking environment, and its telephony "stack" was not written in anticipation of transitioning to wifi and back to phone.

    Palm does not want to sell a phone where some kind of kludged user action is required to get wifi to work. (i.e manually activating, deactivating -- maybe even rebooting ??)

    Maybe they're right -- it would hurt the phone's image more than they would gain amongst the geeks. I wish there was a solution -- but I do know they worked on it ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    If it's tought to integrate into Garnet why do other Garnet devices have it? ie Palm TX
    It's a matter of multiple radio conflict and the anemic Frankengarnet software. The master Treo hacker, Shadowmite, last year was able to get drivers to provide access to a WiFi SD card in a Treo 650 IF: you soft reset every time you switched between cellular and WiFi service (both in and out) which pretty much showed Frankengarnet could not handle multiple radios.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
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