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  1. jlczl's Avatar
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    #21  
    You are absolutely correct. I was not stating that Palm would not succeed because of their lack of innovation, quite the contrary. When masses embrace a product you will make huge profits. That was not my point. My point was that the Treo is no longer a product geared for those of us who thirst for the most advanced tech available, but instead, for those who just want it to work. In the past this forum was filled with tech savvy, ahead of the curve type of people (sort of like xda-developers is now) but now it has become the haven of status quo types.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treolo
    -Web browsing from Xiino is not a fun as browsing with Blazer, though freaking Blazer takes for ever to load pages. With EVDO this is all going to be history.

    Don't bet your 700 on that. The network speed is probably not the bottleneck - the processor is. I had a 6700 with NetFront (which Blazer is based on) on EVDO and it was slower than Xiino on 1x.

    Look at Blazer on the 650 - it takes an enternity to render even if it has already downloaded most of a page.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  3. Haggar's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    My point was that the Treo is no longer a product geared for those of us who thirst for the most advanced tech available, but instead, for those who just want it to work.
    I would argue that the Treo has not been a product geared for the uber-geek for several years. The 600 and 650 and style and form factor -- not technology -- that really made it a success. I can remember buying my 600 because it looked and felt cool in my hand -- and that I wasn't going to have to replace another damn FLIP like I did several times with my 270!! I didn't buy it because it was ultra-tech.

    I just recently (December of '05) purchased my 650. Again -- I had already used a 6700 and several other PPC devices that way outclassed the 650 in terms of the tech specs...but I still hold firm that the 650 was the best choice because it filled all my NEEDS nearly flawlessly while offer me lots of extras that I wanted to have.

    It was cool to think I could do more on those WM5 devices I looked at -- like using gotomypc.com on my phone -- but with a 320x240 screen it just didn't make SENSE! There were lots of ooo's and aaah's I had with the WM5 devices -- and the hardware seemed more impressive "on paper" -- but ultimately when it came to having a great phone and an effective contact management system in the palm of my hand -- the Treo was the hands down winner.

    I imagine that most consumer have a few bullet point items that they "must have" in their phone purchase. But, as I said before, it's only an insignificant fraction of the market (that would be US), that wonder what processor is being used or which VERSION of ptunes was installed. They simply says "fast enough? check... plays music...check...in my budget? check"...

    BTW - I understood your point...and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you. I merely creating a beach from a few grains of sand I found in your original post...
  4. jlczl's Avatar
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    #24  
    No problem. Didn't feel attacked . I agree with your points, I'm just no longer in Palm's target market and that's unfortunate for me.
    Last edited by jlczl; 05/16/2006 at 02:03 PM. Reason: clear up point
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  5. naivete's Avatar
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    #25  
    Ed was invited onto CNBC this morning. I had to leave for office, so I didn't watch it. Did anyone watch it?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Antoine of MMM
    Wow. Treoneo, I feel you but wow man.

    In thinking that it takes about two years to get from planning one of these to selling one, we should only complain so far. Palm is (has) been doing something that Nintendo is also doing, looking at the broader scope of computing and leveraging features veersus access. Yes, there should be better designs and more features, but at what point does one do those things at the cost of those who have just figured out how to put 1 address in their 2 yr old PDA? It takes a ton of planning to get those folks to notice anything, let alone a phone that is 5 years too large and a 2 years behind the front of the tech curve.
    Why is it a ton of planning and a 5 and 2 game plan? HTC cranks out new devices every 6 months or so that are more technologically advanced and innovative than anything in the Palm stable.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  7. Haggar's Avatar
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Why is it a ton of planning and a 5 and 2 game plan? HTC cranks out new devices every 6 months or so that are more technologically advanced and innovative than anything in the Palm stable.
    Straussy - someone else pointed out the iPod's success and compared that with Palm. I think it's important to keep that comparison alive here, too...

    HTC may crank out a bunch of devices -- but look at how many devices have been cranked out to compete with the iPod. How many of them took hold?

    Apple's been making, for the most part, MINOR upgrades to the iPod all along. They've made them smaller...they've made the HDDs bigger. They added video at one point. But the essessence of what an iPod is hasn't changed...and their market share hasn't seemed to suffer for it.

    I'm not saying that Palm shouldn't be innovative...but innovation for innovation's sake doesn't mean much in the consumer market. If your innovations mean higher prices and more complexity -- you'll end up selling your products to monkeys who drive convertibles and that's about it.
  8. hova's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Straussy - someone else pointed out the iPod's success and compared that with Palm. I think it's important to keep that comparison alive here, too...

    HTC may crank out a bunch of devices -- but look at how many devices have been cranked out to compete with the iPod. How many of them took hold?

    Apple's been making, for the most part, MINOR upgrades to the iPod all along. They've made them smaller...they've made the HDDs bigger. They added video at one point. But the essessence of what an iPod is hasn't changed...and their market share hasn't seemed to suffer for it.

    I'm not saying that Palm shouldn't be innovative...but innovation for innovation's sake doesn't mean much in the consumer market. If your innovations mean higher prices and more complexity -- you'll end up selling your products to monkeys who drive convertibles and that's about it.
    WOW! This dude is on his game! Preach on preacher!
    "Bite the hand that feeds you,.......They'll always be impressed by the sharpness of your teeth."-Peggy Sellers (Miriam Margolyes)
  9. #29  
    The logic many of you are using is flawed. The Treo is not a mass-market device for one simple reason: price. This 700p will cost $399 w/2-year contract. The soccermoms will scoff at that price. It also lacks sex appeal. Compared to the hot phones of the day (see: pink RAZR) it's a geeky brick.

    Now the 650 is in the right price range (now), but it's a year and a half old. So no sex appeal there. Plus, I can't imagine that Sprint plans to renew stock and sell it alongside the 700p.

    You can't compare this to the iPod. Apple sells these at premium prices, but not horribly outside of the mass-market limit. Plus, they have iTunes. 99 cent songs. That appeals to the mass-market as well.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10. #30  
    I pointed out the iPod success compared with Palm Thanks Haggar.
    Jimmie Geddes
  11. #31  
    The reason I compared the iPod to the Treo was the user experience. Like Haggar said Apple like Palm releases minor upgrades, they can do this because they've got a following. People are willinng to pay a premium for a more satisfied experience. Sure the ipod is more of a mass market device, but the reason people buy ipods and Treos are because of the user experience. Look at how many "Treo killers" and "ipod killers" have been released. People will pay a premium for a better experience.
    Jimmie Geddes
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by naivete
    Ed was invited onto CNBC this morning. I had to leave for office, so I didn't watch it. Did anyone watch it?
    I didn't learn anything from the interview.
    iPhone 4S
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  13. jlczl's Avatar
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    #33  
    Scott R, the Treo may not be a mass market device yet......but that is clearly what they are attempting to make it. As far as price is concerned I don't believe the iPods are cheap. They are definitely high dollar and even if soccer moms are scoffing at the price they are selling at quite a brisk pace. BTW, I recall the RAZR was very expensive as well when it was released and look at it now. I believe Palm is trying to make the Treo follow the RAZR's steps in regards to price (start high for those that must have it and then slowly drop the price) and distribution (every Tom, **** and Harry dhould have one or at least want to have one). They are not there yet because they haven't dumbed down (tech-wise) the device enough yet. Just give it some time and the feature set of the Treo will be low enough to not intimidate the average joe (he's learning more and more tech everyday).
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  14. jlczl's Avatar
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    #34  
    By my above post I am not saying that the Palm Treo 700P is not a great device. I'm sure it is for those whose needs are fulfilled by it. I just believe the Treo is going through a transformation..............a paradigm shift of sorts. It wants to become every man's phone. As it accomplishes that, some
    users will move on to something else but Palm will be doing quite well with all its new customers. As stated earlier by someone else, I too believe this started a few models ago. I think the Treo 600 was the last innovative Treo (and that was actually developed by Handspring).
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  15. BigTex's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    Straussy - someone else pointed out the iPod's success and compared that with Palm. I think it's important to keep that comparison alive here, too...

    HTC may crank out a bunch of devices -- but look at how many devices have been cranked out to compete with the iPod. How many of them took hold?

    Apple's been making, for the most part, MINOR upgrades to the iPod all along. They've made them smaller...they've made the HDDs bigger. They added video at one point. But the essessence of what an iPod is hasn't changed...and their market share hasn't seemed to suffer for it.

    I'm not saying that Palm shouldn't be innovative...but innovation for innovation's sake doesn't mean much in the consumer market. If your innovations mean higher prices and more complexity -- you'll end up selling your products to monkeys who drive convertibles and that's about it.
    I was going to give you "props" for your 1st post in this thread but this post is just as good! Well said!
    Waiting for Palm Pre on AT&T then can replace my iPhone. Needs Doc To Go and Flash

    Mutley - Passed 4-18-06. A better friend one could not ask for!
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    ...I'm not saying that Palm shouldn't be innovative...but innovation for innovation's sake doesn't mean much in the consumer market. If your innovations mean higher prices and more complexity -- you'll end up selling your products to monkeys who drive convertibles and that's about it.
    Yes, but when the INNOVATORS are developing and selling better products at a lower price point (2 year contract on my Cingular 8125 was $299; right now it "looks" like the best on the Sprint Treo 700p is $399 with a 2 year contract), then that kind of puts the monkey on Palm's back, don't you think?
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  17. Haggar's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex
    I was going to give you "props" for your 1st post in this thread but this post is just as good! Well said!
    What exactly is/are "props"?? If it has any cash value, please don't hesitate to give them to me.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by hova
    WOW! This dude is on his game! Preach on preacher!
    Problem with Haggar is that he came to a football game with a baseball bat.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar
    What exactly is/are "props"?? If it has any cash value, please don't hesitate to give them to me.
    Props are that "slap on the back" that is only inches above the "kick in the rear;" it all depends on who's making the dleivery.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  20. Haggar's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Yes, but when the INNOVATORS are developing and selling better products at a lower price point (2 year contract on my Cingular 8125 was $299; right now it "looks" like the best on the Sprint Treo 700p is $399 with a 2 year contract), then that kind of puts the monkey on Palm's back, don't you think?
    Not really. I rarely think. I feel.

    Actually, what this tells me is that the Treo is doing such a great job of getting market share that others have to lose their shirt to compete.

    Before the iPod Shuffle (gag) how many MP3 players were trying to get to that sub-$100 price point to compete with the iPod on price? Many of those devices actually had more features and better technology than the iPod. Apple came out with the Shuffle and continued to eat away at marketshare with a vastly inferior product for the price point.

    The bulk of the market buys the experience...not the technology.
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