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  1. #101  
    DHart, Palm can't even sell an "unlocked" CDMA 700p *without* Wi-Fi. There's no such creature. Sprint only activates Sprint-branded phones and Verizon does the same. They know if it's one of "theirs" based on the ESN. This is why you can't take a Sprint 650 and activate it on Verizon. The hardware is identical. The CDMA chips inside support both networks. Welcome to America.

    They *could* probably do what you suggest with GSM. At least currently.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    DHart, Palm can't even sell an "unlocked" CDMA 700p *without* Wi-Fi. There's no such creature. Sprint only activates Sprint-branded phones and Verizon does the same. They know if it's one of "theirs" based on the ESN. This is why you can't take a Sprint 650 and activate it on Verizon. The hardware is identical. The CDMA chips inside support both networks. Welcome to America.

    They *could* probably do what you suggest with GSM. At least currently.
    Is it even possible to move a Sprint branded with Sprint firmware phone to Verizon? Has anyone here done that?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    Business center expensive? Wow, what hotel are you staying at? It's been free every time I went. Didn't know it there were fees at some of them.
    I guess you've never tried the Internet connections in any of them in Aruba or St. Maarten. They aren't really business centers so much as pay per minute kiosks. You buy a card at the front desk for X minutes. However, if you go the Marriott (or other high class hotel), you can get wifi for free. You still would have to pay their computer kiosk though.
  4. #104  
    whmurray, technically I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to reflash a Sprint Treo's ROM with Verizon's, but again, Verizon won't activate it if the ESN isn't in their DB, so it won't do you any good.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  5. DHart's Avatar
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    DHart, Palm can't even sell an "unlocked" CDMA 700p *without* Wi-Fi. There's no such creature. Sprint only activates Sprint-branded phones and Verizon does the same. They know if it's one of "theirs" based on the ESN. This is why you can't take a Sprint 650 and activate it on Verizon. The hardware is identical. The CDMA chips inside support both networks. Welcome to America.

    They *could* probably do what you suggest with GSM. At least currently.
    Hey Scott - you got me there. I am a GSM guy, so I am not that familiar with the possiblities to move from carrier to carrier on the CDMA side. I was, in fact, referring to a GSM side 700P (or some other 650 GSM successor) when it becomes available. Palm offers unlocked 650's for direct sale now I believe, so it would be reasonable to assume they will do that again. My idea was mostly in jest - I don't see any built-in WiFi capability coming from Palm under the current OS.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    whmurray, technically I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to reflash a Sprint Treo's ROM with Verizon's, but again, Verizon won't activate it if the ESN isn't in their DB, so it won't do you any good.
    Reflashing a ROM is more difficult and risky than changing from a T-mobile SIM to a Cingular one. That worked perfectly and even if it hadn't fallback would have been painless.
  7. #107  
    video of Palm staffer 'plaining why no wifi
    (lipsticking the pig...)

    the problem is the OS -- I understand why they don't want to say that publicly -- but the lie is grating on my brain, and bad for their credibility.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    video of Palm staffer 'plaining why no wifi
    (lipsticking the pig...)

    the problem is the OS -- I understand why they don't want to say that publicly -- but the lie is grating on my brain, and bad for their credibility.
    What credibility? Surely you jest.
  9. #109  
    You're still missing the point. It's not where there isn't evdo, it's where there isn't a signal period. Or say I'm at home in my living room and want to hop on my own network and access something, send something to the printer or in an office where I want to do that. Say I'm at a hotel or work area where I don't get a phone signal, but they are set up for wifi. What if I'm in the sticks skiing where Sprint seems to have zero coverage period (poconos and almost any NE mountain area), many people have wifi setup so my phone wouldn't be useless, and I wouldn't have to carry my Axim to hop on the internet and check mail, place orders and such. It's about being a complete solution instead of a parital one which IS the point of having these converged devices.

    And even though it may be an OS limitation to do both, to give it the functionality and the option to use a card and do a reset should be there without having to do a hack.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericshmerick
    Until Sprint offers EVDO in all markets, Wifi remains an important feature. I dumped my 650 for a 6700 last month and have loved every minute of it.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571
    You're still missing the point.
    And you are still missing the point. It is not about you. It is not about the consumer. It is about the carriers. It is about the(ir) market. They are investing hundreds of millions with few options and you are investing hundreds with lots of options. It is simply naive to expect them not to exercise such control as they have. For them, the best way to satisfy the consumer is to extend their coverage.
  11. DHart's Avatar
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    #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    video of Palm staffer 'plaining why no wifi
    (lipsticking the pig...)

    the problem is the OS -- I understand why they don't want to say that publicly -- but the lie is grating on my brain, and bad for their credibility.
    Two observations -

    1. Bambi is very hot.http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...es/biggrin.gif

    2. I agree that it is obvious that the problem is the OS and they are not telling the entire truth.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    Two observations -

    1. Bambi is very hot.http://discussion.treocentral.com/im...es/biggrin.gif

    2. I agree that it is obvious that the problem is the OS and they are not telling the entire truth.
    Concur on point 1. That's one hot bambi.

    As for number two, this has been discussed before, there's a Wifi sled... obviously it's possible to have wifi on the device..they'd have to work on it, and that's something they just do not want to do.

    Remember, too, that the 700w could have had built in wifi (I mean, easily), but they didn't do it. Remember, also, that the 700w was released with 32MB of memory, effectively ruining the device for many potential users (including myself). I'm sure the carriers appreciate there not being WiFi on the device, but to think palm is not more financially motivated to exclude it would be silly considering its history in these matters.
    Last edited by g-funkster; 05/19/2006 at 03:16 PM.
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  13. spotter's Avatar
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    #113  
    for most users, not all, the lack of wifi is not a problem at all.

    The cell phone is meant to be carried wherever you go, if there's no cell signal (or 1xRTT/evdo) chances are the large majority of users wont be carrying the cell or using it for anything besides a phone (depending on the case). In those situations, if there is a wifi signal, the large majority of people will also probably have a laptop w/ wifi.

    is it a bummer that it cant do it? yes. Will it do any serious damage to Palm's sales? no way.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    video of Palm staffer 'plaining why no wifi
    (lipsticking the pig...)

    the problem is the OS -- I understand why they don't want to say that publicly -- but the lie is grating on my brain, and bad for their credibility.
    Was there actually a Palm rep in that video? Oh yeah, he was over there on the left side every once in a while they zoomed in on him.

    Like you, I'm really tired of the "Big Lie" that you just don't need WiFi - why can't they just admit they CAN'T do Wifi on Frankengarnet.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Like you, I'm really tired of the "Big Lie" that you just don't need WiFi - why can't they just admit they CAN'T do Wifi on Frankengarnet.
    Ok, then how do you explain reverse DUN? In case we've forgotten, it's the ability, built into our Treo 650s, that allows us to use our Bluetooth radio to access the internet. It works beautifully.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=64496

    This certainly rather proves that the Treo can handle internet from two different radios. It sounds like palm just doesn't want to put in the effort into getting the drivers to work right.
    My Freebie Java Widgets (Compatible with 650, 680, 700p & 755p)
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  16. #116  
    Not missing the point. Get the point, but just don't agree with it. When palm or whoever makes a pda, each generation has more power, better screens, more built in features (like bt and/or wifi built in instead via a card), and a slimmer or smaller case or better design in general.

    But since the introduction of the pda phone, this evolution philosophy has gone to pot. The drive to make a better pda gives way to the carrier caring more about wringing every last penny out of their customer at the expense of creating a truly useful converged product. Everything is a compromise because every feature is scrutinized by the carrier wondering how we can make money from it. Just having a great product and great service in order to retain good customers just doesn't matter.

    You look at the kyo palm phones. Each one was a nice leap ahead till the 7135. The Samsung models i300, 330, 500 were the same way. The 330 to 500 was tremendous. And it was jsut a shame that the 550 never made it to market because it seemed like a very nice product. The Treo design was a big jump when it got to the 600. And there's been no real evolution to the product since, and we're now two generations removed from it. Things we take for granted in a pda are nowhere to be found on a pda phone. And a lot of the reason seems to be because the carrier can't make money from it. One way the carrier makes money is by offering quality products and quality service which creates loyalty and retention. I could give a rat's a55 about all the extra video features and such. I want the quality product so I don't have to deal with workarounds for everything I do.



    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    And you are still missing the point. It is not about you. It is not about the consumer. It is about the carriers. It is about the(ir) market. They are investing hundreds of millions with few options and you are investing hundreds with lots of options. It is simply naive to expect them not to exercise such control as they have. For them, the best way to satisfy the consumer is to extend their coverage.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571
    Not missing the point. Get the point, but just don't agree with it. When palm or whoever makes a pda, each generation has more power, better screens, more built in features (like bt and/or wifi built in instead via a card), and a slimmer or smaller case or better design in general.

    But since the introduction of the pda phone, this evolution philosophy has gone to pot. The drive to make a better pda gives way to the carrier caring more about wringing every last penny out of their customer at the expense of creating a truly useful converged product. Everything is a compromise because every feature is scrutinized by the carrier wondering how we can make money from it. Just having a great product and great service in order to retain good customers just doesn't matter.

    You look at the kyo palm phones. Each one was a nice leap ahead till the 7135. The Samsung models i300, 330, 500 were the same way. The 330 to 500 was tremendous. And it was jsut a shame that the 550 never made it to market because it seemed like a very nice product. The Treo design was a big jump when it got to the 600. And there's been no real evolution to the product since, and we're now two generations removed from it. Things we take for granted in a pda are nowhere to be found on a pda phone. And a lot of the reason seems to be because the carrier can't make money from it. One way the carrier makes money is by offering quality products and quality service which creates loyalty and retention. I could give a rat's a55 about all the extra video features and such. I want the quality product so I don't have to deal with workarounds for everything I do.
    For GSM customers, 600 to 650 was a generation in radio but not in PDA function. For CDMA customers the 650 was a small step backward in PDA function (reduced available memory.) It was a big advantage to the carriers because the persistent memory reduced their support cost.

    However, for the CDMA customer the 600/650 to 700 is a true generation in both radio speed and PDA function.

    The net is that there has really been only one generation since the 600, not two. Progress is slowing down. It is not clear to me what accounts for that, Palm, the influence of the carriers, or the underlying technology.

    Perry will likely get something called the 900 in 2008 but it is not likely to be the advance that the numbers might suggest.
  18. #118  
    Your statement about progress slowing down and underlying technology being one of the culprits (well possibly). You look at the Q and the new Nokia, and I think a technology slowdown theory can be shot. I also look at the i500 and the overall volume of that phone and it's feature set. Adding an sd slot, beefier chipset, better screen and what not (essentially the i550). I'm still not seeing the overall volume change to where they couldn't reduce the size of the treo by it's third generation. It is essentially the same case with slightly different button layouts. They couldn't even fix the sd slot to have a cover or slight recess to it. With the whole "hollywood" version that is thinner, I can't see why (except for $$$$$) why the 700 isn't in that casing. If they would've introduced the 700 in a thinner case, I think there would be less clamor about the 700p being a next generation device as opposed to it really being more like a 675 as they would've been able to do everything of the previous gen with minor improvements but streamlined.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  19. DHart's Avatar
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    #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster
    Concur on point 1. That's one hot bambi.

    As for number two, this has been discussed before, there's a Wifi sled... obviously it's possible to have wifi on the device..they'd have to work on it, and that's something they just do not want to do.

    Remember, too, that the 700w could have had built in wifi (I mean, easily), but they didn't do it. Remember, also, that the 700w was released with 32MB of memory, effectively ruining the device for many potential users (including myself). I'm sure the carriers appreciate there not being WiFi on the device, but to think palm is not more financially motivated to exclude it would be silly considering its history in these matters.
    Good point about the 700W not having built in WiFi. But using the sled as evidence I am not so sure about. And I mean just that - not so sure. Does anyone have any personal experience with the sled? Without knowing the innards (hardware and software) it would be difficult to know which part of the device is in control when the sled is attached. It could be that the 650 is just provides a screen and keyboard for a WiFi device. I just don't know enough about the sled.

    whmurray points at the battery life as the reason Palm does not implement WiFi. I still fall in the "Palm OS is the problem" camp. But it really makes no difference why. They didn't and we don't for this model. Hopefully the next model with a new OS and better hardware will deliver WiFi. Or the networks will be wider and denser (both GSM and CDMA), providing higher speeds EVERYWHERE and WiFi will become moot. I don't care which. I just want to be able to connect EVERYWHERE at higher speeds.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571
    Your statement about progress slowing down and underlying technology being one of the culprits (well possibly). You look at the Q and the new Nokia, and I think a technology slowdown theory can be shot. I also look at the i500 and the overall volume of that phone and it's feature set. Adding an sd slot, beefier chipset, better screen and what not (essentially the i550). I'm still not seeing the overall volume change to where they couldn't reduce the size of the treo by it's third generation. It is essentially the same case with slightly different button layouts. They couldn't even fix the sd slot to have a cover or slight recess to it. With the whole "hollywood" version that is thinner, I can't see why (except for $$$$$) why the 700 isn't in that casing. If they would've introduced the 700 in a thinner case, I think there would be less clamor about the 700p being a next generation device as opposed to it really being more like a 675 as they would've been able to do everything of the previous gen with minor improvements but streamlined.
    Attribute it to whatever you like. 600 to 700 is not a generation; 270/300 to 600 was a generation. Lots of people are perfectly happy with the 600, waiting patiently for something that is so clearly better as to justify their moving. I do not know about you but I have yet to see that. While some cdma users may move to the 700 for EV-DO, and while a faster radio may be necessary to a new generation, it is not sufficient.

    I do not suggest that one cannot find examples of products that are technologically more advanced than Palm's offerings. That is not my point. My point is that, for whatever reason, Palm has slowed down. If the 600 is so clearly superior that only small incremental improvements are possible, then Palm's strategy of selling Perry something new every 18 months or so is broken. It must be sad to be Perry and to have waited so anxiously for the 700p and then get it. Even before they have take the first order, much less shipped the first phone, Perry is already anxious about 2008.
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