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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    WiFi doesn't work when you don't have a signal either.

    If I am away from a physical building or home...it doesn't work. I have a better chance of having something with EvDO or even 1xRTT.
    That's not the point. The point is, in those situations where you're in a place with no signal, it would be nice if you could get on a nearby wireless network to access the internet. It would be nice if you could take your phone overseas and still be able to get online. Wifi on mobile phones is not meant to be the primary method of online connectivity in all areas (assuming you have data access via your provider), but rather a substitute for those times when your other online connection is not available or not sufficient enough. Not to mention, with wifi local area connectivity with other devices would be a plus.

    I'm not saying wifi should replace Ev-DO, it should be an option. In my anatomy class, which I go to Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, there's no Sprint signal in the room. However, my friend sits beside me on his MDA using the wifi connection with no problem. If I get a 700p, I won't be able to get online during class, or wherever else I may be with a weak signal.

    Now why is it that Palm feels Ev-DO is enough for everyone? It isn't. For some, Ev-DO is more than enough, and for others, it's not even an option. If they simply include wifi drivers, not only would more customers be satisfied, but they would make more money from people buying their wifi SDIO cards. I wouldn't even mind having to turn off my cellular radio to use wifi, as long as I had the option available.

    Neither is wifi. I am willing to bet that evdo is available in more places than wifi.
    I never said wifi is more available than Ev-DO. I simply said that Ev-DO is not available everywhere, and does not work when you don't have a signal. Is that not true?

    I don't see how people can possibly say that there's never a need for wifi since there's Ev-DO. No one can honestly tell me that they've never been in a place where there's no signal and they wanted to get online but couldn't (and if you can, you probably don't go to many different places). And let's not forget about the people who don't even have Ev-DO in their area yet. What option do they have for high speed access? None at all. If the 700p had wifi driver built in, then at least people would have more choices.
    Last edited by Trevante; 05/16/2006 at 11:15 PM.
  2. xtant21's Avatar
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    #82  
    You can...buy the third party wifi sled. That'll get you on no problem. Yes it's an added cost and that sucks but everyone is acting like it's the end of the world it's not. Travel overseas? Done it. Did with GSM (cingular) and did it with Sprint (CDMA)...yes you read that right...most european and asian countries DO have some form of CDMA available. Data is charged higher (if you can get it) so yeah you have a bit of a point there...but if I am going all the way overseas...trust me I'm taking back up options to enable my connectivity.

    We're also not saying that there isn't a need for wifi...but palm is not interested in wifi and hasn't been since as someone else stated three revision of treo ago. As with anything Treo...give it time if it proves to be enough of a necessity someone will hack the ROM to enable the wifi card. My experience with doing this on the 650 was that it worked well but wasn't so wonderful that I couldn't live without it. I haven't touched the wifi card in quite some time and have been just fine limping along on 1xRTT. It gets the job done but I can't wait to open up the flood gates with EvDO.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Please correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the Motorola Q been "soon to be released" since before the start of silly season?
    You mean, it is already available? In any case, my point was that the
    Motorola Q is also missing key features like the Treo 700. Why?
  4. #84  
    wifi is for the people who get charged $60 CDN a month for 15 mb of data usage. who the hell would pay that much.
  5. xtant21's Avatar
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevich
    wifi is for the people who get charged $60 CDN a month for 15 mb of data usage. who the hell would pay that much.
    Dude...ok you win on that one. Did they at least hand you a jar of vaseline when they did that to you?

    If that's what you are dealing with...I'll concede the wifi arguement to you.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    ....and power. Do not forget the power. Some here think it is an OS problem but I have always thought it was a battery life problem.
    With replaceable batteries and the ability to turn wifi off (simply take out the card as a worst case scenario), I don't see any battery drawback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Well, the more I read Palm's comments on the issue, and weigh that against Shadowmite's recent comments about Ev-DO tethering tracking, and combine that with the fact that Sprint is now offering an official phone-as-modem option for an extra $25/month, the more I now think that the lack of SDIO Wi-Fi support was dictated by Sprint.
    Doesn't Sprint have another phone that does wifi? Why not wifi on the GSM versions of the phone. I'd say it's very likely that if/when the 700W comes out on Sprint, it will take wifi cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    most european and asian countries DO have some form of CDMA available. Data is charged higher (if you can get it) so yeah you have a bit of a point there...but if I am going all the way overseas...trust me I'm taking back up options to enable my connectivity.
    As you mentioned, data may not be available and that's what we are talking here with wifi. Good luck finding CDMA in Aruba, St. Maarten or any of the islands in the Caribbean. Also, I hope that housekeeping doesn't steal your $2000 laptop back-up option because it doesn't fit in their safes.
  7. xtant21's Avatar
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Doesn't Sprint have another phone that does wifi? Why not wifi on the GSM versions of the phone. I'd say it's very likely that if/when the 700W comes out on Sprint, it will take wifi cards.

    As you mentioned, data may not be available and that's what we are talking here with wifi. Good luck finding CDMA in Aruba, St. Maarten or any of the islands in the Caribbean. Also, I hope that housekeeping doesn't steal your $2000 laptop back-up option because it doesn't fit in their safes.
    Yeah, the dictated by Sprint argument might be a little weak. If the 700w does come with wifi or able to do wifi...then I think we are starting to prove the point of an OS limitation. What it is...I'm not sure yet. Palm has never been high on wifi and we might now be understanding why. I'll have to look over my AMX stuff (POS is based off of AMX) and see what I can find from that end maybe.

    If I am in Aruba, St. Maarten or any Caribbean island...chances are I'm there for a vacation or fun; I don't need my phone when I'm trying to be on vacation. Sorry...I do unplug when it's "me" time. However, that said, most hotels I've been to have a business center that will allow me to at least check e-mail and even print stuff if I need to.

    Don't get me wrong...I'm truly seeing your side of the coin now. I can better appreciate the reasoning behind wanting wifi in the device...I always heard skype before and to me that's just redundant...I want wifi so I can talk on the phone on my cell phone.........huh? If you are in that bad of shape buy up on the minutes already...it costs you to make calls to landline from skype too.

    Without having the phone in hand I can't really say what the deal is on why wifi is supposedly crippled on the 700p...if it is the same thing as on the 650 then it's a ROM hack and we're done. I never had any feeling Palm was even thinking of wifi in the 700...again palm has been lukewarm to wifi at best throughout it's history. There's reasons behind it...I know it...I just can't put my finger on it yet.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Neither is wifi. I am willing to bet that evdo is available in more places than wifi.
    EVDO is about moving while Wi-Fi is about being on a 100M tether, wireless, but a tether none the less.
  9. #89  
    I unplug in Aruba myself, but I do like to know the score of the baseball or football games. Going online can be about fun. The business center is expensive.

    Actually calling landlines from Skype is now free (in US and Europe I think) for the rest of the year.

    "if it is the same thing as on the 650 then it's a ROM hack and we're done." -- Ha ha, you made that sound so easy. You also made it sound like it's convenient to do.
  10. xtant21's Avatar
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I unplug in Aruba myself, but I do like to know the score of the baseball or football games. Going online can be about fun. The business center is expensive.

    Actually calling landlines from Skype is now free (in US and Europe I think) for the rest of the year.

    "if it is the same thing as on the 650 then it's a ROM hack and we're done." -- Ha ha, you made that sound so easy. You also made it sound like it's convenient to do.
    Business center expensive? Wow, what hotel are you staying at? It's been free every time I went. Didn't know it there were fees at some of them.

    See...you learn something every day Skype to landline is free...didn't realize they started that one. Thanks for the info.

    Yeah I did belittle that a tad but ever since the likes of shadowmite and a few lessers have opened the door to the ROM it's been like a playground for me. My hat is off to those guys especially shadow...their work has enabled a lot of things for us and to enable some of us to do some stuff for ourselves. Without simplifying it too much...if the existing driver set that shadow hacked can be used and it is a disabled feature in ROM it should be somewhat of a slam dunk to make it work on the 700 as it does on the 650. We'll see...we need the 700 in hand though.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  11. #91  
    I would not look to past products (even recent ones like the 6700) for an indication of Sprint's *current* business plans. My point was that Sprint has just recently launched the PAM add-on *and* they recent devices can indicate whether the device is being used in tethered mode. Sprint didn't have their tethered tracking model ironed out prior to the 6700 release. According to Shadowmite, it would cost them $$$ to have HTC "fix" that and they probably figured that it wasn't cost justified (perhaps sales of 6700's haven't been great?).

    With the 700p they've got tethered tracking figured out and it's now an extra source of revenue for them. So it makes sense that they might now want to block Wi-Fi usage if they think it will gain them XX more PAM subscribers than they'd get if the SDIO Wi-Fi card was supported. One way we could try to validate this theory would be to start a poll asking how many people signing up for PAM would still do so if the SDIO Wi-Fi card was supported.

    Something tells me that Shadow might have some insider info on this, so perhaps he'll comment. In any case, read what I said above, then go read some of Palm's canned answers when asked why the SDIO Wi-Fi card isn't supported.

    Having said that...there is still cause for hope. While Palm may not support the card out of the box, they might not have made it too difficult for a hacked driver to work. The thinking being that the average user won't be bothered (or even know about) hack solutions, so lost potential PAM subscribers would be minimal.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  12. #92  
    Last time I looked, this was the 700P forum. The "P" is for Palm OS. If we gave a rat's *** about win mobile then we wouldn't be in this forum. None of your posts here have been constructive in any way. Everyone that seems to be some sort of Palm apologist by saying wifi isn't needed can go take a leap because you miss the point entirely. The bottom line is that these are supposed to be devices of convergence. You're supposed to be able to not need x device and y device because you have z device. Well when the need for wifi is there, your $600 converged device comes up lame when it shouldn't. Wifi is a standard feature on all pda's these days whether it's built in or can be added through a card. If you don't need wifi or don't care, well that's all great and wonderful. But there are many that want it, need it and can benefit from it. The bottom line is that it should be an option and it's not. There is no logical argument of why it's not there except that Sprint is saying FU and Palm is saying we don't care by not upgrading the OS to a form that will allow the use of both radios. Heck, I could care less about two radios. I just want to be able to pop in the card and go. I don't mind doing a reset when I'm done. Takes two seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    You do know that Palm makes the 700w which supports wifi.
    since when does a55 get asterisked? I can't make reference to a donkey? That's it. Treocentral needs to be moved to Sirius.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  13. #93  
    well duh. half the point of this topic is for when you don't have a phone signal. How many pages is this thread? Why are the same things being said over and over?

    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    If I am away from a physical building or home...it doesn't work. I have a better chance of having something with EvDO or even 1xRTT.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  14. #94  
    I don't exactly agree with the WM5 comments he made, but everything else crogs said is true. If anything though, the fact that wifi functionality is available on Palm's own 700w, and not their flagship model (the 700p) only exacerbates Palm's laziness.

    I can't make reference to a donkey?
    So you were making reference to a rat's donkey?
  15. #95  
    That makes no sense if Sprint wanted to control you from using WIFI the 6700 wouldnt have WIFI nor would Sprints 700w when they release it. It has to be something OS on the palm since the exact same hardware is used in the similar 700w which has WIFI ability- Im sure itd be was easier to include it as they did on the 700w. I can see Sprints side, theyre a company and companies are there to make money. They are out to offer mobile services you can use outside the home or buildings on the road not home networking, so obviously they are going to push their mobile internet over WIFI. They really dont have any obligation to give you a means to get free internet when the charge for EVDO. This is a phone first remember not a computer. It would be nice to have but would also kill the battery life hence the treo having a much longer life with stock battery vs the 6700. You cant really blame sprint here since they released the 6700 with WIFI they obviously didnt say hey palm dont include WIFI. I do believe it is an OS limitation of palm since its not as an advanced OS as windows mobile. Like stated above if you want wifi on a treo just buy the sled its not much more money than a wifi SD card in price and wont suck your main phone battery.
  16. #96  
    They should really do away with the playing of mp3's and anything that's processor intensive then because it drains the battery. They should limit the brightness of the screen because it drains the battery. Do you not get the point of convergence? If you're trying to combine a business oriented pda and a phone then the phone should have the standard features a pda offers. having to buy a sled defeats the purpose of having a converged product.

    And if it was a phone first it would have a dedicated numeric keypad and have it not feel like a brick in your hands. It's the third generation of the phone and it's still a brick. Looking at all the other technological marvels out there in the mobile phone world, it's hard to believe that the 700 is a third generation of this product family. It's almost (okay, it is) insulting. the i500 is the only palm phone to be a phone first (you could say the 7135 too if you're andre the giant).
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  17. #97  
    The battery argument is garbage, you can turn off wifi when you're not using it. And yes the 6700 has shorter battery life, but that's it's natural battery life, without wifi. And I'm pretty sure the 6700 battery has a lower mah rating (1350 if I'm correct), while the 650's is 1800 mah... keep that in mind too.

    I agree that it's an OS thing, although with the 6700, the device comes with wifi natively. It would probably cost them more to tell HTC to produce a large batch of 6700's without wifi. If Sprint had their way, they'd probably remove wifi from the 6700 to further push their data plans. What other wifi enabled phones has Sprint released? I don't think there are any apart from the 6700...
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    #98  
    In summary we have two lines of reasoning about the why WiFi is not on the 700P:

    1. Lack of WiFi is a Palm OS problem. (I'm in this camp.)
    2. It is a carrier specification that specifically excludes WiFi for revenue purposes.

    If reason 1 is incorrect Palm could introduce an unlocked 700P phone for direct to the public sales with WiFi capability (at non-carrier subsidized prices of course). They would realize even greater revenues and satisfy hardcore WiFi wanters. I say "hardcore" because I think a lot of WiFi wanters would reject the extra cost and decide to do without or go to another phone. I would be greatly temped by such a phone within a reasonable price range.

    But since I think it is an OS problem, I don't think we will ever see such a phone. If WiFi continues its growth pattern and the carriers begin to package WiFi access in their services at extra price, I think WiFi will become a standard feature of all smartphones. The marketing would go something like "We have now expanded our network to include x thousand WiFi hotspots! So even when you are in those remote places where you can't connect, you are still connected!"

    The carriers don't need to fight the tide, they need to be like the Borg. Just assimilate the new services and charge for them. Hell, the could even offer a VOIP option and charge for it like a Vonage. But then, given how badly they mangle correct billing now, it would get even worse!
  19. #99  
    Until Sprint offers EVDO in all markets, Wifi remains an important feature. I dumped my 650 for a 6700 last month and have loved every minute of it.

    I live in a 1x area, no Evdo, and Wifi is used quite often (slingbox, sirius, xm, etc.).

    I could not do all of this on 1x. I realize it takes time to convert 1x to Evdo, but Palm is backing users into a crner by not offering Wifi. There are a lot of customers who do not live in an Evdo market. That makes the 700P's only selling point (Evdo) pointless.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by ericshmerick
    ......but Palm is backing users into a crner by not offering Wifi. There are a lot of customers who do not live in an Evdo market. That makes the 700P's only selling point (Evdo) pointless.
    Palm is not doing anything to users. Palm is doing what its customers, Verizon and Sprint, want. It is hardly Palm's fault that some few live in an area where the carriers have not yet deployed EV-DO. EV-DO is far and away the most widely deployed 3G wireless. It is capital intensive and cannot be as easily deployed as a hotspot but its coverage dwarfs hotspots.

    [It must be time for me to swear off TreoCentral again. Hanging out here now has me defending Palm, Sprint, and Verizon. I may be going over to the dark side.]
    Last edited by whmurray; 05/19/2006 at 09:27 AM.
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