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  1. sindu's Avatar
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    #41  
    Hey... I am heavy user of chartter email. We don't have evdo but with GPRS, the email works fine. I guess it's all depend on the usage of your treo to decide whether you need wifi or evdo.
    Need WIFI, 3.5G, slim and light form factor for Treo to win me back from Samsung i600 !!!!!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by robguz
    I just spent 2 weeks in rural Hawaii where I had to drive 15 miles to get any sprint connection at all and it was mostly terrible and horribly slow to get email on my Treo 600. However, I know that there were free hot spots in the neighborhood and another at a nearby cafe. Without Wi-Fi, the 700p won't be an improvement there. Palm is really pathetic. It was a huge mistake in the 650, but it's 2006 and Wi-Fi isn't even an add on option. Totally nonsensical! I guess they are trying to go out of business or something.
    You do know that Palm makes the 700w which supports wifi.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    No smartphone today will replace your laptop, if ever. So if you want a complete laptop experience on a smartphone, stick with a laptop.
    I don't think I'd bet on that... I got the 700w and sold my laptop, never looked back. Simply isn't a reason why I'd need a full Windows system when mobile. If your a professional video editor, then yeah the smartphone won't work. But if you just got to get some word documents, email & internet... It works wonders.

    One accessory you'll need though, is a foldable keyboard... theres no way I could get college lexture notes on the 700w quick enough without one.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by albertb
    A friend has the i830 on Verizon with wifi and evdo. He said he hasn't used the wifi more than once, and that one time was the day he bought it to try it out. He has never been in an area where he doesn't have evdo OR an area where he would prefer to connect to a wireless network rather than wifi.
    Granted some of you want to connect to home networks and watch media in the bathtub as it says above, but really most people don't need both.

    The bottom line is the device is what it is. Palm released it and I'm sure it will be a sellout once again. If it doesn't meet your needs, don't buy it. There are probably others who want a device that does less and costs less. You can't please everyone with one device and if this device doesn't please you, keep looking. No on is making you buy the Treo.
    Hi. Long-time lurker here.
    I just wanted to say that, while it's nice that some people (even frequent travellers) never seem to find themselves without a signal, I'm pretty sure there are a number of places, like buildings, where signal penetration is minimal, at-best. Many malls and department stores, for example, make phone data services all but inaccessible.

    As you say, if the device doesn't please us enough, we needn't invest in it. However, if we are displeased, it is often advantageous to communicate this. It doesn't cost anything to do so.

    Those who are displeased have a wide range of options. Among them is talking with other people about it. That's what I and quite a few others have chosen to do.

    Thanks.
  5. #45  
    Maybe I'm missing something here.

    Folks seem to be saying that a lack of Wi-Fi is probably an OS limitation, however integrated Wi-Fi is absent from the Windows version and Wi-Fi cards, I believe, are available for the 650 (in case you were referring to Wi-Fi add-ons).

    I see no reason to believe the Palm operating system, specifically, makes either a no-go.
    Last edited by west3man; 05/16/2006 at 06:20 AM.
  6. DHart's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man
    Maybe I'm missing something here.

    Folks seem to be saying that a lack of Wi-Fi is probably an OS limitation, however integrated Wi-Fi is absent from the Windows version and Wi-Fi cards, I believe, are available for the 650 (in case you were referring to Wi-Fi add-ons).

    I see no reason to believe the Palm operating system, specifically, makes either a no-go.
    west3man -

    Yes, you can do Wi-Fi with current Palm OS, but do you want to? And you can drive a 10 ton dump truck to the local convenience store. But do you want to? Read some of the previous posts in this thread and in other threads. Certainly the current Palm OS can do Wi-Fi. But it seems it can not do cellular and Wi-Fi simultaneously. Switching from one to the other is not an easy do. Some Palm OS devices natively support Wi-Fi, but they are PDA's, not cell phones. There is a sled device from a third party that can give the 650 Wi-Fi capability. But it is a SLED, not a card. I don't know what sort of hoops the user has to jump thru to use it.
  7. #47  
    I'd take what I can get as long as it's not an add-on sled. The Hawaii example is perfect.
  8. xtant21's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    I'm really getting tired of this "get over it" mindset. Palm is expecting us to shell out $649-699 retail, or maybe $500 if we're good little boys and girls and start a new 2 year contract with Sprint. At that price, it should be like any other world quality phone and provide WiFi and any other feature WM5 can and does deliver. There are NO EXCUSES for providing less - and it's NOT a carrier issue - the 6700 provides it on the very same network.
    Agreed that maybe they *should* provide it. Have we really checked to see if they CAN provide it? As was stated before...even the shadowmite wifi hack crippled his data usage. Maybe it IS a limitation of the OS...not sure. You already have it utilizing two radio devices bluetooth and CDMA (or GSM). Would you rather have no bluetooth and have wifi? Maybe...but somewhere an executive decision would have to be made...go with wifi and no BT...then out of wifi range...no data. Then people would complain they have no data coverage on this "smart" phone. They can't win (if it is an OS limit). So they err on the side of give them all data coverage (albeit 1xRTT or EvDO), BT and voice and forget the wifi.d

    Also, just for the hell of it here...how many devices has Palm EVER put out that had WiFi in it? I believe I can count them on less than one hand. Given all of their devices over the years something tells me Palm isn't high on WiFi to begin with. Dunno why...but just stands to reason they wouldn't necessarily be moving into new territory given their conservative toe-in-the-water mentality to wifi historically. And that reason above all is why I say get over it...it's not something they are apt to give you normally anyway. Why should we really be thinking any different even IF other devices have it? Palm doesn't care about that...their sales are still running brisk without it. So until everyone stops buying it BECAUSE it doesn't have WiFi built-in....get over it.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart
    west3man -

    Yes, you can do Wi-Fi with current Palm OS, but do you want to? And you can drive a 10 ton dump truck to the local convenience store. But do you want to? Read some of the previous posts in this thread and in other threads. Certainly the current Palm OS can do Wi-Fi. But it seems it can not do cellular and Wi-Fi simultaneously. Switching from one to the other is not an easy do. Some Palm OS devices natively support Wi-Fi, but they are PDA's, not cell phones. There is a sled device from a third party that can give the 650 Wi-Fi capability. But it is a SLED, not a card. I don't know what sort of hoops the user has to jump thru to use it.
    I was responding to the chain of logic that lead to the conclusion that the Palm OS makes Wi-Fi (of either sort) all but impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    Agreed that maybe they *should* provide it. Have we really checked to see if they CAN provide it? As was stated before...even the shadowmite wifi hack crippled his data usage. Maybe it IS a limitation of the OS...not sure. You already have it utilizing two radio devices bluetooth and CDMA (or GSM). Would you rather have no bluetooth and have wifi? Maybe...but somewhere an executive decision would have to be made...go with wifi and no BT...then out of wifi range...no data. Then people would complain they have no data coverage on this "smart" phone. They can't win (if it is an OS limit). So they err on the side of give them all data coverage (albeit 1xRTT or EvDO), BT and voice and forget the wifi.d

    Also, just for the hell of it here...how many devices has Palm EVER put out that had WiFi in it? I believe I can count them on less than one hand. Given all of their devices over the years something tells me Palm isn't high on WiFi to begin with. Dunno why...but just stands to reason they wouldn't necessarily be moving into new territory given their conservative toe-in-the-water mentality to wifi historically. And that reason above all is why I say get over it...it's not something they are apt to give you normally anyway. Why should we really be thinking any different even IF other devices have it? Palm doesn't care about that...their sales are still running brisk without it. So until everyone stops buying it BECAUSE it doesn't have WiFi built-in....get over it.
    If we voice our concerns, expressing that we won't buy Palm's devices or are seriously considering not doing so, then Palm gets a better idea of what they need to be concerned with.

    I might buy a product because it's the best option for me, at that time, but that doesn't mean I've got to be happy with everything about it or keep my concerns to myself.

    I can understand, I suppose, that some of you are tired of seeing some of us gripe. At the same time, I'm tired of seeing some of you griping about us griping.

    I don't know what the answer is, but since this is a message board, I'd think discussion would be encouraged as long as it isn't harmful in some way.
  10. #50  
    if you want wi-fi buy another phone, its not like palm said "it will have wi-fi" then you buy the phone and find out there lying..you kno up front it doesnt have wi-fi, and personally EVDO has worked everywhere i have needed it, where ever there has been wi-fi there has been EVDO, where there hasn't been wi-fi theres been EVDO
    Got Treo?
  11. xtant21's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man
    I can understand, I suppose, that some of you are tired of seeing some of us gripe. At the same time, I'm tired of seeing some of you griping about us griping.

    Then don't gripe...problem solved. haha...just kidding I had to get that in there. No, I see your guys' point but aren't we already better off with EvDO than we were with 1xRTT? Wireless dataline speeds are picking up...slow yes but they are. Being a discussion board then I'll say I'd rather "suffer" at 700k speed than to get a low wifi signal and lose connection when I accidentally slip out of range of the building it's in.

    WiFi still means I'm tied down geographically. Wireless means I have freedom to really roam and do business where I need to do business...not Starbucks or the local library. The old chick behind the counter smells funny and I don't like the way she looks at me, ok?
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    The old chick behind the counter smells funny and I don't like the way she looks at me, ok?
    ooooh...old chick likes xtant!!!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    Agreed that maybe they *should* provide it. Have we really checked to see if they CAN provide it? As was stated before...even the shadowmite wifi hack crippled his data usage. Maybe it IS a limitation of the OS...not sure. You already have it utilizing two radio devices bluetooth and CDMA (or GSM). Would you rather have no bluetooth and have wifi? Maybe...but somewhere an executive decision would have to be made...go with wifi and no BT...then out of wifi range...no data. Then people would complain they have no data coverage on this "smart" phone. They can't win (if it is an OS limit). So they err on the side of give them all data coverage (albeit 1xRTT or EvDO), BT and voice and forget the wifi.d
    I'd like to see ShadowMite chime in, but I don't think it's a limitation of the OS. I'm fairly sure they couldn't be used at the same time, but I bet if ShadowMite had access to the full source code he could come up with a lot better solution than he did (Which was still amazing).

    As for the rest of it, you make a huge assumption that it's either wifi or bluetooth. Considering that Lifedrive has both (but no voice), I don't see how bluetooth would conflict with wifi. The only thing would be if you can't have three radios at the same time. I would think the OS can be programmed to support that. If not, Palm/Handspring has had about 4 years to get working on that...
  14. xtant21's Avatar
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    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I'd like to see ShadowMite chime in, but I don't think it's a limitation of the OS. I'm fairly sure they couldn't be used at the same time, but I bet if ShadowMite had access to the full source code he could come up with a lot better solution than he did (Which was still amazing).

    As for the rest of it, you make a huge assumption that it's either wifi or bluetooth. Considering that Lifedrive has both (but no voice), I don't see how bluetooth would conflict with wifi. The only thing would be if you can't have three radios at the same time. I would think the OS can be programmed to support that. If not, Palm/Handspring has had about 4 years to get working on that...

    That's basically what I'm saying...I don't think it can handle communications to three radios at the same time. Maybe they thought most people would find it too complicated to turn off a radio or something. I don't know. I too would like to hear Shadow's take on it all with his knowledge of this exact topic too. I also agree...if it is a limitation they've had ample time to address it...why they haven't may silently speak volumes as to why they are so lukewarm to wifi in the first place. As you stated the lifedrive does have both but no CDMA/GSM to worry about. It always seems to go in pairs at best and that is what interests me. To add one last point...my WM5 allows me to turn off and on both the BT and the WiFi antenna...I don't think that is too hard for most people to grasp...just adding fuel to the fire against palms lack of wifi interest.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    Then don't gripe...problem solved. haha...just kidding I had to get that in there. No, I see your guys' point but aren't we already better off with EvDO than we were with 1xRTT? Wireless dataline speeds are picking up...slow yes but they are. Being a discussion board then I'll say I'd rather "suffer" at 700k speed than to get a low wifi signal and lose connection when I accidentally slip out of range of the building it's in.

    WiFi still means I'm tied down geographically. Wireless means I have freedom to really roam and do business where I need to do business...not Starbucks or the local library. The old chick behind the counter smells funny and I don't like the way she looks at me, ok?
    Assuming you're right, that doesn't change the fact that this particular Treo model doesn't allow me to join my own personal wireless network. Not only that, it apparently doesn't allow me to even use an sd wi-fi card to do so.

    From what I understand, and feel free to correct me if this is inaccurate, two of its predecessors could do one or both of these things.

    That's not the end of the world, but it is disappointing.
  16. DHart's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by xtant21
    That's basically what I'm saying...I don't think it can handle communications to three radios at the same time. ... I don't know. I too would like to hear Shadow's take on it all with his knowledge of this exact topic too. ....As you stated the lifedrive does have both but no CDMA/GSM to worry about.
    I agree xtant. By saying limitation of the OS, I didn't necessarily mean that it could not be done at all - just that trying to practically implement it in every day usage would be a royal pain in the a$$. In other threads folks have pointed toward the OS' lack of multitasking capability as the culprit. And that the reason Wi-Fi is supported on the 700w is due to WM5's multitasking ability.
  17. xtant21's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by west3man
    Assuming you're right, that doesn't change the fact that this particular Treo model doesn't allow me to join my own personal wireless network. Not only that, it apparently doesn't allow me to even use an sd wi-fi card to do so.

    From what I understand, and feel free to correct me if this is inaccurate, two of its predecessors could do one or both of these things.

    That's not the end of the world, but it is disappointing.
    Very true that it *was* possible. It wasn't originally as is the case now...it was due to the creative nature of people to come up with a way to make it happen. So I have no reason to believe it won't happen now.

    Come on guys, this is the initial release of the 700p...the 650 didn't have a lot of the tools available to it when it first came out either. We made them happen through hacks and third party stuff. Now we expect this stuff to be in the next device and we're upset when it isn't. Palm never intended the 650 to do a lot of the things it does; therefore, it isn't in this one. They make the device for everyone, yes even those with less tech skills than you think should own this thing. Then through the flexibility of the device allow you to make more happen with it. Take a break guys. If you don't want to be an early adopter...then don't. Let others stumble through and get this thing stable...then it'll be just like the 650 you've come to love.

    Not trying to sound harsh there but we now are all starting to realize how we have evolved the 650 and how much it does do for us that was never initially intended. We'll come up with some cool stuff for this Treo too...but we need to get it in our hands first.
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  18. xtant21's Avatar
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    #58  
    People come on...Palm has handed you a device that is better than the 650 in a number of ways. It is better than the 650 when the 650 was new. This by definition constitutes that this is an upgrade to the 650 and yes a newer, better device.

    The 650 is a work in progress still; we as a community have done a lot to advance this thing further than the manufacturer really intended. Now, if Palm includes these things as features...they and the carrier have to support these things as features. If I were them I'd rather hear you complain about it not being there and you go on your own and come up with a solution. Then they don't have to support it, nor deal with the torrent of returns when it doesn't necessarily work perfect nor clog up the tech support lines with everyone trying to VPN to their home or business network. Sorry guys, I can't understand the gripes against Palm...they handed you an updated device nothing more, nothing less. Do with it as you will...as you've done in the past. Let it evolve like the 650 did. If you don't want to be an early adopter than don't...stick to the 650 until the 700 has matured through creativity to meet your standard(s).

    Palm did not drop the ball on this...they never promised you most of what you are complaining about...whatever you read wherever you read it is not their fault. What you are used to doing on your 650 they probably didn't build it in to it at release either. The 700p will do everything the 650 does and more...but give it time.

    Now if this thing comes out and the volume is as low as the 650...I'll be standing in line with you to about it to Palm
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
  19. #59  
    I don't think it's fair to say that manufacturer didn't intend it to be extended as it has. They didn't accidentally build the development environments for the 3rd parties to use.

    Three generations of Treo's ago, the box said it was wi-fi capable. They never delivered on that. The gripes are just disappointed people. It's almost like a star minor league prospect in baseball. If he comes to the majors and is just above average it's a disappointment. For Palm the bar is set high as they are the gold standard in smartphones. I think wifi advocates are just really, really disappointed that, YET AGAIN, there is no wifi.

    The volume is fine on my 650 :-).
  20. xtant21's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I don't think it's fair to say that manufacturer didn't intend it to be extended as it has. They didn't accidentally build the development environments for the 3rd parties to use.

    Three generations of Treo's ago, the box said it was wi-fi capable. They never delivered on that. The gripes are just disappointed people. It's almost like a star minor league prospect in baseball. If he comes to the majors and is just above average it's a disappointment. For Palm the bar is set high as they are the gold standard in smartphones. I think wifi advocates are just really, really disappointed that, YET AGAIN, there is no wifi.

    The volume is fine on my 650 :-).
    They didn't intend for they themselves to do it...allow me to rephrase. That is why the development structure is there...let someone else worry about whatever it is Palm didn't want to deal with.

    Three generations ago WiFi was the next big thing...and it hasn't truly materialized into what everyone said it would either (yet). Now, I'm guessing Palm is seeing EvDO and wireless data as the next big thing and are embracing that instead...right or wrong. So, ok I can see their point that Palm never delivered on that promise...that was three generations ago and they haven't said they'd offer it since. I admit I was wrong that they never promised it but it's been a long time since they have and they have never really uttered wifi with Treo anytime lately. We may have hacked our way around it but then it becomes our problem.

    Trust me...let the wifi people hit the beach and surf at broadband-esque speed and let them tell me they still want wifi...do you really like coffee that much to want to be (ahem) tethered to a building? How many cities have city-wide wifi? Can I go outside and get a signal? How many cities have cell coverage and will most likely have EvDO before years' end? Which direction would you go?

    Haggar has a very good point by the way:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=18
    Beware the lollipop of mediocrity...lick it once and you suck forever!
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