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  1. #61  
    I disagree with the poster who said that the Netherlands only has 1 Telco offering UMTS. Vodafone, KPN and T-mobile offer it. T-mobile also offers HSPDA.

    Telfort only has EDGE. Don't know about Orange.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Look at it this way....if you father was 2nd generation born in USA and you are third generation born in USA, who exactly would be 2.5 generation ?
    That would have to be taken up with the missus dontcha think?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Not quite....there is no such thing as 2.5G, not "officially" anyway. The 2.5G term is a colloquialism "invented" by journalists to refer to EDGE Class 1 thru 3 which is a "bolt on" ehancement to 2G . Cingular uses Class 4 and later Class 10 which is clearly and definitely 3G tho, since it is not quite as fast as other technologies classified as 3G, many still refer to it as 2.5G
    This is what I mean. Context is everything, right. The link provided above clearly states EDGE is not generally considered true 3G as I mentioned. An excerpt from the wikipedia article in the link:

    "2.5G provides some of the benefits of 3G (e.g. it is packet-switched) and can use some of the existing 2G infrastructure in GSM and CDMA networks. GPRS is a 2.5G technology used by GSM operators. Some protocols, such as EDGE for GSM and CDMA2000 1x-RTT for CDMA, can qualify as "3G" services (because they have a data rate of above 144 kbit/s), but are considered by most to be 2.5G services (or 2.75G which sounds even more sophisticated) because they are several times slower than "true" 3G services.

    When I look @ all things considered, EDGE doesn't seem to qualify to the 3G standard just based on speed alone!
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rijal
    I'm with you Andrew. But unfortunately my 600 died (continuous reset loop now) about a month ago.....
    Reset loops are usually software problems. A hard reset may fix that. In any case, you really should call Palm. If they conclude that it is hardware, they may accept it for repair (or, more likely, replacement). If it is out of warranty they may charge a couple of hundred but not five hundred.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by brownievegas
    This is what I mean. Context is everything, right. The link provided above clearly states EDGE is not generally considered true 3G as I mentioned. An excerpt from the wikipedia article in the link:
    There's no ambiguity. 2.5G is a "made up" thing...doesn't exist...imaginary. There is no 2.5G standard therefore no device can meet a standard that does not exist.

    EDGE Class 1 through Class 3, the specification, was a "bolt on" thing to 2G. It was faster than 2G and looking for something to "call it" someone called it 2.5G. This was, to my knowledge the first reference used for 2.5G since no real standard for 2.5G existed.

    However, what Cingular and other GSM carriers actually offers is not Class 1, 2 or 3 but Class 4 and later Class 10. This is / was always classified as third (3G) generation technology and it meets the 3G standard.

    In summary:

    EDGE Class 1 - Something faster than 2G
    EDGE Class 3 - Something faster than 2G

    EDGE Class 4 - 3G
    EDGE Class 10 - 3G

    EDGE Class 1/3 is not the same thing as EDGE Class 4/10. I am not sure EDGE 1/3 ever was rolled out other than for testing purposes....When PC mag did their testing on Cingular, it was defined as Class 10 EDGE service....clearly a 3G product.

    Because EDGE is slower than other current offerings (about 1/4 of the speed of EVDO and 1/8th the speed of HSDPA 3.6), some people still like to call it 2.5G to somehow get across that it's not quite up to other 3G offerings. But again the fact remains it does comply with the 3G standard.

    I guess it would be akin to saying that the Florida Marlins were a AAA baseball team. With their record, they may look like it (boy they fall far and fast) but as long as they playing in the National League , they still a Major League ball team.
  6. #66  
    Thanks WH. Maybe I'll try calling Palm. Its definitely out of warranty as I bought the 600 the day it came out on GSM (just like I did the 180 and 270!). I tried a hard reset, but after re-syncing my device and hitting the reset button as required, it automatically hard resets itself again. And the device no longer can tell if its plugged in or unplugged it just constantly beeps as if i'm switching from plugged to unplugged or vice versa and the light stays green all the time etc.

    Maybe I'll get lucky and they will replace/upgrade for a small fee...but likely i'm stuck using the blackberry for a few months until the 700p GSM comes out (or whatever the GSM version may be).
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rijal
    Thanks WH. Maybe I'll try calling Palm. Its definitely out of warranty as I bought the 600 the day it came out on GSM (just like I did the 180 and 270!). I tried a hard reset, but after re-syncing my device and hitting the reset button as required, it automatically hard resets itself again. And the device no longer can tell if its plugged in or unplugged it just constantly beeps as if i'm switching from plugged to unplugged or vice versa and the light stays green all the time etc.

    Maybe I'll get lucky and they will replace/upgrade for a small fee...but likely i'm stuck using the blackberry for a few months until the 700p GSM comes out (or whatever the GSM version may be).
    Sounds more and more like a software problem. When you re-synch, you recreate it. However, Palm support may still be able to help you.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    ....may have more info later after my meeting tonite.
    Jack:

    Did you get any more info in your meeting?
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rijal
    I'm with you Andrew. But unfortunately my 600 died (continuous reset loop now) about a month ago. Been stuck with a Blackberry from my company since then, because there is no way I'm shelling out $500 for an unlocked GSM 650 now, when there are new models out/coming out. But then again, I'm not waiting 6 months for a GSM version. Unfortunately I'm stuck with GSM because both myself and the company I work for use T-mobile, and without any details on how blackberry connect will work (i wish they would finally come out with that too!!!!), I have no idea if my company's blackberry server will allow connections from another network (ie. Sprint, Verizon, etc).
    You do have another solution. My 650 had the same problem (continuous reset loop) and it was > 1 year old. I called up Tech Support, received a SRO, sent in my old T650 and received a refurb'ed model 10 days later for $169.
    Crypto
    m100 -> Tungsten W -> Treo 650 -> Treo 750

    "Popeyes is the shizzznit!!!"
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    Jack:

    Did you get any more info in your meeting?
    Rep said:

    1. CNG has no plans for "associations"....was going for a discount plan for our 48,000 members but he indicated "corporate's reponse has been in the past that everybody belongs tio something so if they gave out association plans, then ...essentially, they'd have to discount tyeh whole market".

    2. Scuttlebut they are hearing is CNG skipping 700 and going after next one...Verizon got the 700w, Sprint the 700p so CNG wants it's turn to be the 1st out the gate. Of course he added, rememebr those of us in the trenched are the last ones the PHB's (Pointy Headed Bosses)tend to inform.
    Last edited by JackNaylorPE; 05/19/2006 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Dysexic typing
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    ...Verizon got the 700w, Sprint the 700p so CNG wants it's turn to me the 1st out the gate.....
    Please do not tell them that the race is over (it may not always go to the swift but the late are always at a disadvantage).
  12. #72  
    Just an update....gave palm technical support a call on my 600 problems. They offered me an exchange for a refurbished 600 for $169. They waived the advance return fee of $25 because its a 600, but I still couldn't bring myself to spend $169 for a 3 year old refurbished phone....a 650 maybe, but not 600. Looks like I'm stuck with my blackberry for now.

    On another note, in a nice way I tried using my charms to pump the (female) tech rep for information on a GSM version. She lauged a "knowing laugh" when I said that I was just going to hold out and wait for the new GSM to come out. And then she said a few things that I interpreted to be an "unofficial confirmation" that a new GSM version is coming out (W,P who knows). She said something to the effect of it being a smart decision. When I pushed further, playing dumb asking if she had any idea when a new one would be released because I'm stuck with a blackberry until then (hoping it might incentivize her to give me a 650 rather than 600) I then got the company line "well they have only trained us on the 700 CDMA versions so far" and "we are a seperate group than the developers so I don't know". I think she was getting nervous, but to me the "smart decision" and "so far" were telling signs.

    Nothing groundbreaking there just sharing. I'm sure I'll get crapped on for being a new member, but just sharing my convo....
  13. #73  
    Welcome to Treocentral Rijal!

    And no crap. I promise!

    thanks for the info
    Nanotechnology Nerd
    i300-->i330-->i500-->6700(1 wk!)-->Sprintt650-->gsm650-->HTC Universal (1 mo.)-->gsm650-->Cing8525(3wks!)-->gsm650
  14. dyn
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by nispen
    I disagree with the poster who said that the Netherlands only has 1 Telco offering UMTS. Vodafone, KPN and T-mobile offer it. T-mobile also offers HSPDA.

    Telfort only has EDGE. Don't know about Orange.
    That's true. The Vodafone site really suck, try finding more information about their Live! services on the vodafone site...
    T-mobile is very nice: I read somewhere that if there is UMTS it uses UMTS but if there isn't it will fall back to HSDPA. Needless to say that the device itself has to support this too (like the MDA Vario). I certainly hope that the GSM version has such a feature and offcourse that more carriers have UMTS and/or HSDPA.
    I don't think there will be since lots of cities and people are protesting against UMTS. They think it's very bad for their health and it causes cancer. It's very hard for carriers to get a permit to build a UMTS antenna, cities do not easily give out those permits anymore, so the protests of the anti-UMTS people are effective.
  15. glenada's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by jwein84
    This is a direct quote from Andrew at Treonauts.com...

    "Finally, for those who are keenly awaiting news of a GSM version of the Treo 700p I can tell you from very good sources that although there have been some delays due to difficulties producing a model to handle simultaneous voice and data calls for Cingularís high-speed HSPDA network we should see their model released within Q2 this year."

    So if this is true (and Andrew has proved to be a very reliable source), then the GSM version of this phone should be out no later than the end of next month (June). I'll be waiting anxiously.
    2Q is almost over....
  16. #76  
    19 more days remaining for June, it still may happen.
    CNG ATTWS Treo650
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Playcentric
    19 more days remaining for June, it still may happen.
    Please, please do not hold your breath. History suggests that GSM Treos follow CDMA Treos long after shipment of CDMA. Shipments have barely begun.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Please do not tell them that the race is over (it may not always go to the swift but the late are always at a disadvantage).
    The race for the 800 is over ? CNG said they ain't doin the 700...we talkin about them wanting to be 1st outta da gate with the 800 or whatever number comes up next. Of course the source may be uninformed or just trying to deceive but he did sound like he meant what he was saying.
  19. #79  
    I suspect that the wait may be awhile. It seems to me that Palm would be unlikely to release a 3G POS (or is that Access-powered now?) device unless it can run on both North American and European 3G frequencies, and there just aren't many devices out yet that have all 3 UMTS bands (plus the other two European GSM bands for that matter). The only device that I am aware on the market yet is the Option Globetrotter PC Card. Sierra Wireless has announed its quint-band PC Card for 3Q06, but I don't know of any quint band phones out yet. I'm afraid that we aren't going to see the 3G GSM offerings until this gets solved.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    The race for the 800 is over ? CNG said they ain't doin the 700...we talkin about them wanting to be 1st outta da gate with the 800 or whatever number comes up next. Of course the source may be uninformed or just trying to deceive but he did sound like he meant what he was saying.
    The race is not for the "800." It is for market and share. There is a narrow and shrinking window of opportunity to establish one's products and services in the market. Once missed, gone forever.

    As good as it is, the 650 is not even a place-holder in the market. While Cingular seems to see no urgency to complete UMTS coverage (and markets it only for PCs, not smartphones), the European and Asian carriers have already done so. How long will people wait for an expensive Palm or Treo device before committing to a competitive one? That loud sound you hear is the window slamming shut.
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