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  1.    #1  
    Ok.. I just got my Garmin GPS 10 Bluetooth with Que for Palm software. It was a little bit of a chore, as the box I bought didn't originally come with the palm version of software. Mine only came with PocketPC (Que) and Windows software (nroute).

    I had to make a few phone calls to Garmin to get them to send me the Palm version of the Que software. I got it tonight and have been playing with it. I'll post a review of the software tomorrow. Also, I have TomTom BT GPS MKII (sirf III) and Navigator 5 to compare against. I've been using TomTom for about a year. I'm using a Sprint Treo 650 with Firmware 1.13.

    For those looking to purchase this unit, supposedly boxes that were manufactured after Nov. 2005 include the Palm software. If not, you can call Garmin and have them send you the updated CD/DVD. The Palm version of the software is not available on their web-site yet.

    The cost of this unit was $210 + shipping (approximate $6) from gpsdiscount.com. The order arrived promptly with a free t-shirt. The only drawback was the Palm OS version of the software not being included. Also, the maps were version 6 City Select North America. I just went to Garmin's web-site and ordered Version 7 update DVD(current version) for free.

    The package came with the Garmin GPS unit. It is exactly the same length and width of my TomTom GPS. It is slightly thicker. Also, interesting is that it has a magnet built-in. According to the user's manual you can stick the GPS to the roof of your car (Outside). This seems kind of risky to me, but interesting if you are in an area with poor coverage. The Garmin Unit has 12 hour battery life, compared with 20 hour (theoretically) by the TomTom unit.

    The Garmin GPS came with a Auto Cigarette lighter adapter/charger, some velcro, software CDs, and unlock codes.

    The software that came with my unit is:
    Nroute - Software for maps/routing on your laptop
    Que for PocketPC - Same as above for PocketPC
    Mapsource - used for loading maps onto PocketPC or Palm
    City Select North America V6 - US/Canada maps with full unlock

    NRoute had a newer version on Garmin's web-site so I updated it after installing. Same thing for Mapsource.

    I ended up ordering the following for free from Garmin:
    City Select North America V7 DVD- Updated version of V6 (some newer units may come with City Navigator V7 maps rather then City Select, they are basically the same, except City Select has the maps broken into smaller chunks).
    Que for Palm OS - Maps/Routing software for Palm OS.

    Note: You can install V7 maps without install V6 first by using Data.EXE on the V7 DVD rather then the normal installer. (found this out from Garmin)

    Also, all the garmin software will only work with the GPS 10 unit. It uses some proprietary Garmin protocal for communication. You can use the GPS 10 with multiple systems though.. IE.. My GPS 10 will work with my laptop, my Palm Device and a Pocket PC, if I had one. The Maps are locked to my GPS 10, but I can use the GPS 10 with multiple systems.

    Finally, BT pairing was easy on my Treo 650, code was 1234, which I didn't realize until reading the manual (doh!). Laptop was a little tougher. It took me a couple of tries to get it working. It creates a bluetooth serial port connection on your laptop.

    The software takes up about 3.5MB of Ram on my Treo 650. That includes the applications and voice files. It doesn't seem like there is any way to move these to SD Card. Originally the install was more like 4MB, but I removed some files that seemed to be extra languages (ie.. QueMap_enUS, QueMap_frFR, QueMAP_itIT, etc), I just kept the enUS versions. There are about 115 voice files (this is kind of annoying having so many files).

    There is a basemap and detailed maps, as well. The basemap of North America is 13MB. For maximum speed you need the small basemap and detailed maps for the places you want to go. The entire US (without Canada) takes 1.528GB. I put everything onto my 2GB card. If I start to run out of memory I guess I make some smaller maps. Compared to TomTom, this is much bigger. TomTom complete US takes about 1GB of space.

    One thing that I notice right off the bat, is that the Garmin map is one file. TomTom has multiple files for different regions and can not route between regions. The Garmin software allows you to route all the way from one coast to another.

    Anyway.. Some more to come tomorrow.. Already I'm not sure if I like the Garmin better... Some things seem better then TomTom 5, some worse.
  2. #2  
    I VERY MUCH look forward to hearing your review... This unit is available at an outdoor-outfitter place nearby, and at a good price (I've used the Treostore before, but prefer to make 'expensive' purchases over the counter for ease or return).

    Staying tuned!
  3.    #3  
    Ok.. So I played with it more today...

    I called Garmin and asked if I could trade my unlock codes that I got for City Select v7 to City Navigator v7. They said yes. The difference I found between both map sets is the City Navigator has bigger selection area then City Select, so you can't select individual counties/towns to put on your memory card. The advantage on City Navigator is that the entire US takes up less space. It is about 1.4Gb on my 2gb SD card.

    Btw. If you are installing big maps on your SD card, save yourself some time and install using an SD Card reader. It took like 10 minutes using an SD card reader for the entire US. Using the Treo 650 cradle took like 60 minutes.

    When you install the Que software from Garmin on your Treo 650, it installs 5 applications.
    -QueSetup - lets you uninstall/reinstall the Garmin software (put in my hidden folder)
    -QueGPS - This shows your connection to the GPS device, to satellites, speed, elevation, accuracy, time/date, etc.
    -QueMap - This is the map program that shows your current position and route as you are driving
    -QueFind - This is for finding POIs, Waypoints, Addresses, etc.
    -QueRoutes - Used for managing Routes (save, stop, resume, detour, VIA points).
    -QueTurns - Used for showing current turn-by-turn text directions

    At first I thought "oh great... This sucks.. 4 separate apps". Anyway.. after using it a little bit, the apps all work together. You really don't have to launch them separately. Normally, I launch the QueMap application to see my GPS position. You can switch from app to app using the right and left arrows on your 5-way. So it is easy to go from Map to Find, etc. In fact, I can find places just using my 5-way. Something I couldn't do with TomTom. Usually Map and Find are the two apps that I was using the most.

    I guess I'll just list the pros and cons of this software.
    Pros:
    -Maps are way...way..way.way.way.way.way better then TomTom. Much more detailed and up-to-date. The same maps that are on my Streetpilot 2610. Very colorful too. Changes color depending on whether it is night time or daytime.
    -POI are the same as above... way.way.better then TomTom. It had every business in my town. In fact, I see some home-based businesses in my neighborhood. It is very up-to-date. Maps and POIs are NavTeq.
    -Came up with good Routes to all my places and 5 way navigation works pretty well.
    -Voice directions seemed better/more accurate then TomTom. Same voice as my trusty StreetPilot
    -POIs have details such as address and phone number. In fact, you can make a phone call from the details screen of a POI. Also, the Finder app lets you see where each POI is before you Route to it. This is a big thing compared to TomTom. TomTom just lists POIs and you have no idea where they are until you route and see it on a map.
    -Everything seems to work without messing with it for hours, like Tom Tom. No crashes so far.
    -Maps can all be loaded together. No grouping like TomTom. So you can route across large areas/regions. I tried making a Route from Colorado to Florida and it worked fine.
    -Interface works better with 5-way (left-right to change apps), Up/down to zoom in/out.
    -GPS locked on very fast. As fast as my TomTom unit, although the Garmin isn't sirf III.
    -Unit continued mapping when I changed to different applications. IE.. I went into my calendar. When a turn came up.. the Que turn preview popped onto the screen with the voice telling me when to turn. I tried this during a phone call, but no directions while on a phone call.
    -Screen shut-off to save power while routing and not plugged in. I thought this could be a problem, but the unit wakes up far in advance of the next turn and displays the directions. If you have the Treo 650 plugged into a cigarette lighter, then it stays on all the time. Wish I could turn this off and leave the screen on at certain times.
    -Comes with software for Palm and Laptop. So I can use it on either device. My laptop is BT also.. cool.
    -Waypoints. TomTom has Favorites, but it just isn't as nice as Garmin's Waypoints.

    Cons:
    -No Contacts routing. TomTom has it, but it doesn't really work.
    -Some things require a stylus or Menu-Command function. Not a big deal, but would have liked to have seen a few more things built-in to the 5 way.
    -No onscreen keyboard. I thought this was stupid in TomTom, but got used to it. Now I kind of miss the big lettering on the screen. To enter alpha/numbers you need to use the treo keyboard. Not a big deal either.
    -No 3d view of the maps. I thought this was kind of cool in TomTom, but it really didn't make the software more usable.
    -Intermittently the maps loaded slowly. So the GPS would show my position without a background map for a minute when I hadn't used it for 15-30 minutes. I have to see why this is happening. Maybe something I am doing.
    -Unit doesn't come with an AC adapter for charging. I got one from Garmin, though. GPS actually uses 5v1A power, so theoretically you may be able to make a USB charger.

    All in all.. the software is way better and more professional then the TomTom unit. The maps are 100x better. I do miss the 3d display on TomTom. It was cool and the extra battery life on the GPS unit itself. Finally, I wish you could route from Contacts.

    Tech support from Garmin has been excellent. They have responded to all my questions and when needed sent me software. A real tech support department rather then some guy who sometimes answers email at TomTom.

    Anyone want to buy my TomTom Navigator 5?
  4. #4  
    If you're interested in selling, I might be interested in your TT5. PM me.
    Last edited by tjphilpot; 03/21/2006 at 11:57 AM.
  5. #5  
    Mogulman,

    thanks for the in-depth review!!! I may pull the trigger on it!
  6.    #6  
    Ok.. I wanted to update this after a few days. I've found some issues. I submitted them to Garmin, but no response yet.

    -Intermittenly the Garmin Que software won't read maps from my SD card. It seems to happen if I haven't used the Que software for like 15-20 mins. If I eject and re-insert my memory card then it will read again. I tried reloading maps and 3 different memory cards (2gb Transcend, 2gb adata and 512mb Panasonic). When the Que software can't read the card, I can still use Filez and other apps, and can see data on the cards. So it is only the Que app that is having a problem.

    -Intermittently, when I have an appointment alert on my Treo 650, I'll hear "Lost satellite reception" in the Garmin software's voice and then my appointment beep. I have the GPS turned off and the Que software disconnected from the GPS. I've tried resetting my device. Went away, then came back this morning.

    -If you are using the Garmin GPS 10, and switch away to use your phone, then your bluetooth headset won't connect to the phone. The GPS 10 maintains it's bluetooth connection in the background. Since the Treo 650 can only have on BT connection, you can't use your BT headset unless you switch off the Garmin device. (update) If you want to use your BT headset, you can just select <menu> G, to disconnect the BT GPS from your Treo. Then the BT headset will work.

    Still not sure which I like better. The maps and POIs in Garmin are so much better then TomTom, but the issues may sway me back to TomTom. I'll give it another week.
    Last edited by mogulman; 03/30/2006 at 08:15 AM.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by mogulman
    Ok.. I wanted to update this after a few days. I've found some issues. I submitted them to Garmin, but no response yet.

    -Intermittenly the Garmin Que software won't read maps from my SD card. It seems to happen if I haven't used the Que software for like 15-20 mins. If I eject and re-insert my memory card then it will read again. I tried reloading maps and 3 different memory cards (2gb Transcend, 2gb adata and 512mb Panasonic). When the Que software can't read the card, I can still use Filez and other apps, and can see data on the cards. So it is only the Que app that is having a problem.

    -Intermittently, when I have an appointment alert on my Treo 650, I'll hear "Lost satellite reception" in the Garmin software's voice and then my appointment beep. I have the GPS turned off and the Que software disconnected from the GPS. I've tried resetting my device. Went away, then came back this morning.

    -If you are using the Garmin GPS 10, and switch away to use your phone, then your bluetooth headset won't connect to the phone. The GPS 10 maintains it's bluetooth connection in the background. Since the Treo 650 can only have on BT connection, you can't use your BT headset unless you switch off the Garmin device. (update) If you want to use your BT headset, you can just select <menu> G, to disconnect the BT GPS from your Treo. Then the BT headset will work.

    Still not sure which I like better. The maps and POIs in Garmin are so much better then TomTom, but the issues may sway me back to TomTom. I'll give it another week.
    Mogulman,

    Thanks for the review. Now that you've had the Garmin unit for a while, can you give an update on your review, especially with the issues you were having? Any limitations you're aware of on the Treo relative to your Garmin 2610? Are you aware of any reason you couldn't load the Garmin Topo mapset? Thanks for any info you can provide!
  8.    #8  
    Yes... after using the device for a while I do have some updates:

    -The problem with reading maps from the SD card is some type of interaction problem between the Garmin Que software and Sprint Business Connection (Seven) software. If I have Sprint Business Connection set up for push email, then intermittently maps won't be read by Garmin Que. If I change Sprint Business Connection to Smart sync or timed sync, then the issue goes away. Seven, the make of Business Connection and Garmin both know about the issue. It doesn't seem like it is going to be fixed any time soon.

    -The problem with voice alerts coming up when my Palm alarm went off, must have been some type of corruption in my Treo 650 unit software. I hard reset and reloaded everything from scratch (rather then just restoring from Backup) and everything is working fine for about a month. It may have been corruption in the Personal Settings file or something.

    -In order to use your BT headset, you still have to do <select> g and disconnect the Garmin GPS from the Treo to use it.


    That being said... I did end up selling my TomTom unit. For me, more accurate maps and more POIs were more important on the Garmin unit. The interface for looking up POIs was much better too.

    The TomTom was pretty close though, and maybe a better unit for some people. The fact that TomTom's GPS unit is Sirf III was almost enough to sway me. It did get a lock faster then the Garmin unit, but in Colorado I don't have that many large buildings to worry about. Also, the fact that TomTom will work with pretty much any BT GPS is great. Garmin software has to be used with their GPS. The TomTom 3d directions were pretty cool too.

    Again, for me, it really just came down to Maps and POIs, and the ability to look up things. So I was willing to settle for some negatives (listed above).

    Between the Garmin 2610 and the Treo, the biggest thing I notice is that if I just do a search in POIs without selecting a category, and only type in a small amount of letters, the 2610 is much faster then the Treo. This is with the entire US map set loaded.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by mogulman
    Yes... after using the device for a while I do have some updates:

    -The problem with reading maps from the SD card is some type of interaction problem between the Garmin Que software and Sprint Business Connection (Seven) software. If I have Sprint Business Connection set up for push email, then intermittently maps won't be read by Garmin Que. If I change Sprint Business Connection to Smart sync or timed sync, then the issue goes away. Seven, the make of Business Connection and Garmin both know about the issue. It doesn't seem like it is going to be fixed any time soon.

    -The problem with voice alerts coming up when my Palm alarm went off, must have been some type of corruption in my Treo 650 unit software. I hard reset and reloaded everything from scratch (rather then just restoring from Backup) and everything is working fine for about a month. It may have been corruption in the Personal Settings file or something.

    -In order to use your BT headset, you still have to do <select> g and disconnect the Garmin GPS from the Treo to use it.


    That being said... I did end up selling my TomTom unit. For me, more accurate maps and more POIs were more important on the Garmin unit. The interface for looking up POIs was much better too.

    The TomTom was pretty close though, and maybe a better unit for some people. The fact that TomTom's GPS unit is Sirf III was almost enough to sway me. It did get a lock faster then the Garmin unit, but in Colorado I don't have that many large buildings to worry about. Also, the fact that TomTom will work with pretty much any BT GPS is great. Garmin software has to be used with their GPS. The TomTom 3d directions were pretty cool too.

    Again, for me, it really just came down to Maps and POIs, and the ability to look up things. So I was willing to settle for some negatives (listed above).

    Between the Garmin 2610 and the Treo, the biggest thing I notice is that if I just do a search in POIs without selecting a category, and only type in a small amount of letters, the 2610 is much faster then the Treo. This is with the entire US map set loaded.
    Great...thanks for the update! My main annoyances with the TomTom 5 software are the fact that you can't search POIs by name (very dumb), there's no North up 2-d display, and I can't use these old Garmin Topo maps I have laying around. I do love having all my gadgetry in one device though, so I've been reluctant to buy a separate Garmin GPS. Sounds like I don't have to afterall.

    Not to mention it doesn't hurt that the $195 that Amazon charges for the GPS 10 is significantly less than any Garmin unit that has enough room, internal or through an expansion card, to load the full US mapset.

    I'm still not certain about loading the Topo maps, though. Are you aware of any limitation with loading other Garmin mapsets besides what's included (City Select)? Even if you're only using City Select, if the Palm software is anything like the Garmin GPS units you should be able to bring up a screen that allows you to select your mapset. Any chance you could confirm that such an option exists?

    I almost pulled the trigger on a 2610 when Amazon was selling them for $450...glad I waited. It sounds like this is everything the 2610 is, but on a 320x320 screen versus the 2610s 300x160 screen.
  10.    #10  
    When I have the entire US mapset file loaded, I can unselect individual areas of the country. You can load different map files, but you'd have to copy and paste them into the correct folder on the SD card. I think it will only load one file (actually 2, base + detailed) at a time.

    You may want to ask people here:
    http://forum.brighthand.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53

    It's a Garmin iQue forum, but the software is essentially the same for the GPS 10. They may know the answer.
  11. jredecop's Avatar
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    #11  
    How are you guys putting the basemap onto the sd card? My memory goes down about 10 M once I get this all on my phone...sucks.
  12.    #12  
    The bigger basemap will only go on the SD card. I think you have a choice of full basemap or Lite. Lite is like 5mb and goes in memory. The bigger one was like 13MB and goes on the card.

    I guess you could probably move the lite one to the card, also.

    All the garmin stuff goes in the \Garmin folder on the SD card. For me that would be:
    GMAPBMAP.IMG
    GMAPSUPP.IMG

    Basemap + detailed map
  13. jredecop's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by mogulman
    The bigger basemap will only go on the SD card. I think you have a choice of full basemap or Lite. Lite is like 5mb and goes in memory. The bigger one was like 13MB and goes on the card.

    I guess you could probably move the lite one to the card, also.

    All the garmin stuff goes in the \Garmin folder on the SD card. For me that would be:
    GMAPBMAP.IMG
    GMAPSUPP.IMG

    Basemap + detailed map
    Ah, got it. I have just been doing the complete setup and not the custom, got it, thanks!!!
  14.    #14  
    I'm using this unit on my Treo 700p now. It seems to work fine. I have the entire detailed mapset on my SD card. I am using the basemap lite (5mb) in the Treo 700p ram. I decided to do this, since I had extra ram. I figured it might improve performance.

    Also.. Garmin just released City Navigator 8 updated maps/POIs. They are awesome. Includes a hotel in my town that isn't even finished being built yet.
  15. #15  
    mogulman. thanks for the review.

    Can you tell me one thing. If you put the exact address in Garmin (say you book a motel in some ski resort) does it show more accurate position than TomTom. I have found TT sometimes doesn't show as good a position on the map as, say google map.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    mogulman. thanks for the review.

    Can you tell me one thing. If you put the exact address in Garmin (say you book a motel in some ski resort) does it show more accurate position than TomTom. I have found TT sometimes doesn't show as good a position on the map as, say google map.

    Yes...it shows the exact address..

    In fact..you could look up hotels in an area (say Telluride)... the select "more details", and it will show the exact address and phone number. You can show it on a map and save it as a waypoint including address info (not just lat/long).
  17. #17  
    I'm going to get the Garmin for my 700p, but think I'm going to wait for the GPS 10X. It's supposed to have the sirf III chipset. Anyone know when it's going to be out?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by NJ Dog Doc
    I'm going to get the Garmin for my 700p, but think I'm going to wait for the GPS 10X. It's supposed to have the sirf III chipset. Anyone know when it's going to be out?
    Have you considered the TomTom 6 package? If so, why did you choose the Garmin system?

    I'm new to handheld GPS/Navigation so I'm still sorting out which software and GPS unit will best serve my needs. All opinions are appreciated.
  19. #19  
    I've not used either, but based on reviews here, it seems Garmin has much more accurate maps and more extensive and up to date Points of Inerest. In general I am a fan of Garmin, and this solution seems like a very affordable way to get most if not all of the functionality of their award winning Street Pilot series of GPS devices.
  20. #20  
    Thanks NJDogDoc.

    Too bad Garmin software is locked to their GPS units. It seems there is a market for using their software with other receivers.
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