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  1. #241  
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesgangut
    Correct. I edited my post.
    Great, I thought that was the case. But as memory management on the Treo seems to confuse even power users, I thought I'd reword your description just a bit. Hope you don't mind... in fact if you want I'll delete this post (or you can freely use it to update yours).

    Anyway, here it is:

    ==============================================
    The Treo has 64MB of total memory, split 50:50 into nonvolatile (flash) memory and true (volatile) RAM.

    Flash memory is 32MB.
    There are two partitions:
    ROM & NVFS
    ROM is where the bootloader and ROM image are stored. NVFS is the rest. So if ROM is 7MB then NVFS is 25MB; 8MB then NVFS is 24MB, etc., etc.

    The NVFS disk is further divided into folders. Since NVFS is essentially a FAT "disk," it stores all data that the Treo refers to as "RAM" inside a folder named "PALM_DM." This folder is what you see as RAM on the Treo. But it is not, generally, the only folder stored there.

    Other folders on the NVFS disk (a/k/a "BuiltIn") are created and used by certain applications, particularly those that want--or need--to store real files, not databases (PDBs) internally on the Treo. A few of these apps' folder names on the NVFS disk are:
    Photos & Videos (stores internal pics and video files)
    BLAZER (Blazer's cache files)
    Audio (duh!)
    PALM_DM (described above--it's usually all a Treo user "sees.")

    Most, or at least many, apps need to be aware of this hidden "BuiltIn" disk in order to see files there. But it is accessible. For example, Resco Backup is aware of it, and is why it backs up and restores internal pics and video. I don't know if other backup apps have come up to speed on this yet, but there is at least one hack that will expose this disk in its true form--EAYOR (enter at your own risk).


    RAM memory is also 32MB.
    RAM is where there are 3 different things:
    1- Running version of ROM (variable)
    2- Dynamic memory (fixed ~5MB)
    3- DBCache (difference of the above two)
    ==============================================

    BTW: Resco Explorer allows complete access to the NVFS disk. Since my available "RAM" (NVFS) is pretty high (around 15 MB--I keep most everything on SD), I use this disk to transfer files from one SD card to another.

    For example, I have a handle-bar-mounted MP3 player on my motorcycle. I have more/different music stored on that SD card than the one in my Treo. But by using a temporary folder I created on the NVFS disk, I can easily copy songs from one card to the other. You can do this for free by using a hacked copy of Filez too (actually, I've switched to using Filez, as it's smaller than Resco Backup, which I've now moved to SD). Hacked Filez can be DL'd here:
    http://treo.discussion.treocentral.c...achmentid=7654

    (Again, EAYOR.)

    While this might seem off-topic, I believe having access to that extra NVFS space, particularly using this thread's tool to reduce the ROM partition size (with little wasted space), can be useful to some people. Well, it is to me anyway.


    --
    Mike
    Last edited by Tinman!; 03/06/2006 at 12:23 PM.
  2. #242  
    Here is a visual breakdown from grack.com
    http://www.grack.com/blog/articles/2...ory-management
    PalmIII > PalmIIIx > PalmIIIxe > TRGPro > Handera 330 > Zire71 > Treo600 > Treo650 > Treo680 > Treo750 > Centro > TreoPro > iPhone 32GB 3GS

  3. #243  
    Yep, I've seen that. But it didn't get into the folders within the NVFS disk. (OTOH, many people seem to have a hard time grasping even the basics of the Treo's memory management, let alone delving deeper into NVFS.)

    On a related note, I see a lot of people concerned primarily with the size of the ROM zip (e.g., wasting NVFS space, etc.). If your goal is to increase dbcache, or at least prevent it from decreasing, it's important to look at the size of ace-palmos.zip when unzipped. Wasted NVFS space is one thing. But diminishing dbcache due to a highly-compressible collection of apps within ace-palmos.zip is quite another.


    --
    Mike
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by stipus
    If you do this, don't forget to change the "locale" parameter to itIT in the boot.conf file.
    stipus
    Can I edit it with a text editor as Notepad?

    Anyone answer me about my other questions in post #234?

    .....and sorry, another last question..........
    To modify partition size via different Romupdater, we need SD method or is it possible with Rom tool?

    Thanks.
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by operators
    Can I edit it with a text editor as Notepad?

    Anyone answer me about my other questions in post #234?

    .....and sorry, another last question..........
    To modify partition size via different Romupdater, we need SD method or is it possible with Rom tool?

    Thanks.
    to modify partition you have to do a SD method
    PalmIII > PalmIIIx > PalmIIIxe > TRGPro > Handera 330 > Zire71 > Treo600 > Treo650 > Treo680 > Treo750 > Centro > TreoPro > iPhone 32GB 3GS

  6. #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    ...clip... I see a lot of people concerned primarily with the size of the ROM zip (e.g., wasting NVFS space, etc.). If your goal is to increase dbcache, or at least prevent it from decreasing, it's important to look at the size of ace-palmos.zip when unzipped. Wasted NVFS space is one thing. But diminishing dbcache due to a highly-compressible collection of apps within ace-palmos.zip is quite another.
    --
    Mike
    Please Elaborate

    Better Yet,

    Would anyone have a prob. w/ starting a thread that focuses on this very subject?
    Just call me Berd.
  7. #247  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle
    Please Elaborate

    Better Yet,

    Would anyone have a prob. w/ starting a thread that focuses on this very subject?
    Not sure if this requires a new thread, as I think it is related to this one. There is no mention in the PDF how-to, or even filelist.PDF, regarding the actual size of the uncompressed PRCs in question. Personally, if I had access to the source spreadsheet, I would be happy to add the compressed VS. uncompressed values for each file listed in filelist.PDF (assuming it hasn't already been done--my copy does not have those values).

    In any event I was just commenting on the fact that different files have different compression ratios, and that the real size of the "ROM" (once it is uncompressed in RAM) needs to be taken into consideration.

    For example, I might have a 500KB game in my custom ROM that only compresses to about 80% (i.e, it will take up 400KB within ace-palmos.zip).

    I then replace that game PRC with a 750KB application that contains a lot of compressible material (e.g., help text, EULA, etc.). This PRC compresses to 25% of its original size (i.e, it will take up 188KB within ace-palmos.zip).

    When I create my final ace-palmos.zip file, I might expect to have a larger ROM (if I didn't consider compression ratios). But instead it has gone down in size by 212KB. "Wow," I think to myself, "I just saved 212KB, and my dbcache is gonna go up!"

    But in reality, dbcache will be reduced, as the app that replaced the game is going to consume 750KB in RAM (uncompressed) Vs. the game's 500KB. It was only ace-palmos.zip that got smaller. So, in this example, having a smaller ace-palmos.zip (ROM) might leave me with more NVFS (if I'm able to move to a smaller ROM partition), but it will definitely leave me with less dbcache (since dbcache is what's left in RAM after subtracting the size of the uncompressed ROM and the fixed-size dynamic heap).

    I don't know if I conveyed this adequately, but I hope I made it clear.


    --
    Mike
  8. #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    ...CLIP...
    I don't know if I conveyed this adequately, but I hope I made it clear.
    --
    Mike
    crystal

    I myself, have stripped my Rom to about 6mb, and using the 7.1 par.
    I have put nothing back in, except for mReset, I like that there after a HardR.

    As far as the filelist.pdf, I would not know where the source SpreadSheet came from.
    I could get it started in excel if that would help.
    Just call me Berd.
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    ...clip... Personally, if I had access to the source spreadsheet, I would be happy to add the compressed VS. uncompressed values for each file listed in filelist.PDF (assuming it hasn't already been done--my copy does not have those values).

    --
    Mike
    I converted the filelist to xls.
    Removed some info, and just left the list of files and what they are for.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Just call me Berd.
  10. #250  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle
    I converted the filelist to xls.
    Removed some info, and just left the list of files and what they are for.
    Thanks, Berdinkerdickle. But as someone (or some people) put a lot of effort into that original spreadsheet, I don't think it appropriate to re-do their work without permission. Who am I kidding, I just ain't gonna re-do the colors!

    But seriously, I figured I would get an original copy, modify it, and then send it to whomever created it to release as a PDF.

    OTOH, heck, I don't even know if anyone even cares about this info!


    --
    Mike
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    Thanks, Berdinkerdickle. But as someone (or some people) put a lot of effort into that original spreadsheet, I don't think it appropriate to re-do their work without permission. Who am I kidding, I just ain't gonna re-do the colors!

    But seriously, I figured I would get an original copy, modify it, and then send it to whomever created it to release as a PDF.

    OTOH, heck, I don't even know if anyone even cares about this info!


    --
    Mike
    I agree, no wait I don't, nevermind I do.
    Wait, I don't care
    Just call me Berd.
  12. #252  
    Here it is complete in just a rough conversion.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Just call me Berd.
  13. #253  
    I was wondering if anyone has mad and posted any custom ROMs for the Cingular update, or should I do the research and build my own?

    I have an unlocked Cingular GSM 650 with Hardware A, and I've tried a couple of ROMs from jamesgangut, but I keep getting BT data corrupt errors, and none of my keyboard quick keys will work anymore (???). I've reloaded the rom a few times. I was going to go ahead and try the Cingular ROMs, but don't know if I need the CNA, CNB, or CNG. How do I tell?

    Thanks.
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by rogersmith00
    I was wondering if anyone has mad and posted any custom ROMs for the Cingular update, or should I do the research and build my own?

    I have an unlocked Cingular GSM 650 with Hardware A, and I've tried a couple of ROMs from jamesgangut, but I keep getting BT data corrupt errors, and none of my keyboard quick keys will work anymore (???). I've reloaded the rom a few times. I was going to go ahead and try the Cingular ROMs, but don't know if I need the CNA, CNB, or CNG. How do I tell?

    Thanks.
    James built some cings also,
    He will probably reply soon.
    Go into phone, options, info:
    In there u should see software: Treo650-#.##-CNB or CNG, etc.
    But if u already have an Updated cing Rom on your phone, and your happy, u might just cust your current Rom w/ the New RomTool. there's not much (like extra Langs) to remove from a cing Rom
    Here's some reading material. might help some:
    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=108580
    Last edited by berdinkerdickle; 03/06/2006 at 05:57 PM.
    Just call me Berd.
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by rogersmith00
    I was wondering if anyone has mad and posted any custom ROMs for the Cingular update, or should I do the research and build my own?

    I have an unlocked Cingular GSM 650 with Hardware A, and I've tried a couple of ROMs from jamesgangut, but I keep getting BT data corrupt errors, and none of my keyboard quick keys will work anymore (???). I've reloaded the rom a few times. I was going to go ahead and try the Cingular ROMs, but don't know if I need the CNA, CNB, or CNG. How do I tell?

    Thanks.
    If you already went to ENA it is going to be hard to figure out if CNB or CNG. I am guessing you are getting the two issues above after restoring your data. 1.20 does sometime screw up saved/unsaved prefs. I have done a CNG rom with fat32 and then one stripped of cing stuff and versamail and fat32. If you want links to those let me know.
    PalmIII > PalmIIIx > PalmIIIxe > TRGPro > Handera 330 > Zire71 > Treo600 > Treo650 > Treo680 > Treo750 > Centro > TreoPro > iPhone 32GB 3GS

  16. #256  
    James, do you know wht the dif is between CNB, CNG, or CNA?
    Just call me Berd.
  17. #257  
    Not really, I'm a Tmo customer. I think A was the AT&T customers and B is for Blue and G Orange.
    PalmIII > PalmIIIx > PalmIIIxe > TRGPro > Handera 330 > Zire71 > Treo600 > Treo650 > Treo680 > Treo750 > Centro > TreoPro > iPhone 32GB 3GS

  18. #258  
    Well, I went to 1.13ROW after I unlocked my phone and it took Cingular forever to put out there update, and didn't note what software I replaced, my mistake. I was not a ATT customer, and I got the first 650s out on the first week released by Cingular. I've only tried your ENA custom rom ROMs, not any Cingular ones.

    I didn't do any restores, I aways prefer reloading all software, so there's not issue. Before any software was installed, I set up a few hotkeys again, and found out none work anymore, not even the "1" voicemail key. I've always had an issue with them not working when it came out of sleep, I'd have to push calendar, then phone again, then they would work, but I thought that was a Treo issue. Now they won't work at all. In my opinion the volume problem is worse with the new firmware, but not by much. It's always been acceptable.

    I would sure like to try your custom Cingular ROMs. It's going to be quite a few days before I can get time to sit down and research doing my own, and figuring out which software version to use. I guess I'll start with CNG, then try CNB. I don't think Hardware: A means I need CNA.

    Thanks again.
  19. #259  
    PalmIII > PalmIIIx > PalmIIIxe > TRGPro > Handera 330 > Zire71 > Treo600 > Treo650 > Treo680 > Treo750 > Centro > TreoPro > iPhone 32GB 3GS

  20. #260  
    Sweet. Thanks. Now if I want to make a custom ROM from Cingular, can I customize the one I just downloaded from you, or should I capture the ROM from my phone and make it. I'm sure all the instructions will tell me, just curious.

    The .txt file says the firmware is not updated, so it's still 1.51, correct? 1.71 is a leaked firmware?? So will this process keep the 1.71 that your ENA ROM put on my Treo or downgrade it? Also, should I update the Cingular ROM from PALM, then run your ROM, or just run your's. I've found the carrier database problem is soved by reloading the entire Treo CD and letting it update from the internet. My phone worked perfectly after using your ROM and then using that method. I just read briefly about that before using your ROM.

    Thanks for the quick help.

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