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  1.    #1  
    I have decided that without Cobalt the palm os will be dead by the end of the year. It can't mulititask...no big deal?
    Well part of the bluetooth 1.2 standard is multiple connections, that in itself is multitasking.
    Wifi? The palm OS is already stretched running a phone app and PDA at once,
    if wifi is added then you have to lose the phone part.
    How long can Palm keep this up? they ditched palmsource selling them off to Asia...they saw no profit in it to justify the cost(which may even go up for them now since they have no blood relationship with them..which might hasten the death)

    The WM5 treo has bluetooth 1.2, wifi, more memory, and probably an excellent deal with MS on pricing(hey they are getting their software installed on their biggest handheld competitor, How would you like to get an offer to sell to your biggest competitor and let them worry about the resell?)

    Palm fixing this on the 650? It has been a year and with palm it is already considered close to end of life....We lose, Palm wins. Now where do we go?
    I don't want WM5, I want cobalt.

    My next smartphone purchase goes to WHOEVER markets a stable, usable, multitasking, palm os, wifi enabled, fully functionable bluetooth handheld with a min of 128mb!(Too much to ask? then i may have to suffer with my 650 or watch every windows smartphone that hits the streets....but if i switch then it is done and no turning back...no turning back just on a software basis and the aggravation that Palm as put on me. Could you imagine your PC at work breaking, Knowing that there is no purpose fixing it or replacing it? Your only choice is buying a Mac and ALL new software! Once that investment is made=GAME OVER

    Posted in the 650 column since I am aggravated with the intentional shortcomings of the 650 that the CEO is even acting blind to.

    Flame as you will. Just post what you think Palm can do to save their business as a manufacturer of PALM OS handhelds and if they can EVER save the 650 since at this point it is to be remember as a public BETA test of NVFS.
    Firmware has failed.....my 650 ran reasonably well till the last update...now just blazer will kill it, but regardless of that I learned what apps would reset it and ran those only when necessary...hence the "reasonably well"
  2. #2  
    I'll let Ed know.
  3. #3  
    WOW, tired and depressed.

    Hang in there bud, I'll save a corner of my pink padded cell.

    Cheers, Perry.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by madcap
    Flame as you will. Just post what you think Palm can do to save their business as a manufacturer of PALM OS handhelds and if they can EVER save the 650 since at this point it is to be remember as a public BETA test of NVFS.
    This made me laugh. Did you even read what you wrote??? Palm is a HARDWARE MANUFACTURER. They can, and apparently will use whichever OS meets their needs. Period. They are in the business to make money. Like it or not WM makes money, especially in the corporate world. Save the 650? Is it sick? Sales of the 650 have been pretty darn good for Palm, despite your perceived inadequacies. Is it a perfect device? Of course not. Show me one that is. Maybe you're right about NVFS. I look at it differently, however. It is new technology. Problems should be expected. It will improve over time. Early adopters pay a price to have "the latest and greatest". I, for one, will remember my 650 as a cutting edge device that, though not perfect, was FAR better than anything else available during it's limited lifetime.

    Perspective is a wonderful thing....just like opinions, everyone has their own.

    Hey Dutch, tell Ed I said hello.
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  5. #5  
    ...of course, of course...
  6. #6  
    As above, perspective is everything and every user needs to remember that they are not every other user. I love my Treo the way it is. Sure there are a few things that would make it better but for the way I use it there is nothing better now, certainly not WM5.

    I am seldom in a situation that requires true multi-tasking. I don't run a large number of third party apps. The ones I do run are very stable. Considering the number of Treos sold and the total number of people who post here I suspect that the majority of users are in much the same category that I am. They want a phone that does a bit more or that can run a particular application they use and they want simplicity of operation.

    I have a pretty good technical background and love to experiment and play so I get into this forum and try all sorts of things, bricking my phone twice in the process and learning enough from the great people here to recover. That is when I have a little time to play though. My day to day use of the Treo is as I have described above.

    The Palm OS might die someday but I don't think it is going to be nearly as soon as most of the doomsayers predict. It may die for a small proportion of users who can't live without more but there are still going to be many others that find it is just fine.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    This made me laugh. Did you even read what you wrote??? Palm is a HARDWARE MANUFACTURER. They can, and apparently will use whichever OS meets their needs. Period. They are in the business to make money. Like it or not WM makes money, especially in the corporate world. Save the 650? Is it sick? Sales of the 650 have been pretty darn good for Palm, despite your perceived inadequacies. Is it a perfect device? Of course not. Show me one that is. Maybe you're right about NVFS. I look at it differently, however. It is new technology. Problems should be expected. It will improve over time. Early adopters pay a price to have "the latest and greatest". I, for one, will remember my 650 as a cutting edge device that, though not perfect, was FAR better than anything else available during it's limited lifetime.

    Perspective is a wonderful thing....just like opinions, everyone has their own.

    Hey Dutch, tell Ed I said hello.
    Palm is the only ACTIVE Palm OS manufacturer left. They let us down by using MSFT. Plain and simple. When they did that, they sidelined the Palm OS. At least for phone usage. Thanks Palm!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. #8  
    THEY HAVE NOT GIVEN UP ON THE PALM OS !!

    They spent 5 years trying to break into the corporate market with PDAs and Treos. It was a stone wall. So they said to expand into this market segment we must offer the Microsoft MS. They will sell more hardware. That will benefit us all.

    We will have a Treo 700P with EV-DO with some flavor of Palm OS within 3 months and then they will move on to Palm/Linux with the TREO 800p for December 2007.

    They had to give MS this window of marketing opportunity. Let's give them a break. They did not and will not desert us.

    Geez, this Silly Season is waaaaaaay toooooo looooong.


    Cheers, Perry.
    Last edited by gtwo; 01/27/2006 at 06:36 AM.
  9. #9  
    I agree... the 650 OS needs an overhaul. The day I receive at least 95% of my calls and SMS messages, can use call waiting, and get less then 1 freeze up/reset a week, I will be happy with it.

    As it is, I agree that the 650 is a public beta. Just because it sells well doesn't change that fact.
  10. #10  
    But once you give in to MSFT, you may have a hard time getting out. Like Fittske's sig says "This is like Coke agreeing to fill it's bottles with Pepsi". His avatar is right on target too, the Windows icon eating the Palm icon.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  11. #11  
    Nothing is a given. Nothing stays the same. If you don't keep pushing forward, you will be passed. Even if you keep pushing forward, you might get passed.

    The PalmOS will continue to be, as long as it provides a valuable point of differentiation to the consumer. If they don't, the OS will die, but only because the alternative OS has proven better. I don't think we are there yet. The race is still on and as long as it is --consumers of both OS flavors will benefit.

    I agree, the Palm OS cannot rest on it's beach head of users. (Loyalty to a 10 years in the making library of purchased Palm apps will not last forever.) The Palm OS has to live, breathe, grow and continue to compete, if not lead. Yes, it is at a critical juncture. We shall see in the next two releases of a PalmOS Treo. A FrankenGarnet version w/ EV-DO support for the 700P followed by a multi-tasking Palm/Linux OS for the 800p is a weaker path. If the 700P has Cobalt, multi-tasking and EV-DO while migrating towards the Palm/Linux release -- that will be a stronger path. I can live with either of these two paths -- the Palm/Linux release will tell us if the PalmOS is dead or not. The viability and WOW factor of that OS will be the deciding factor, IMHO, as to whether the PalmOS lives or dies.

    Cheers, Perry
    Last edited by gtwo; 01/27/2006 at 08:15 AM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    I agree... the 650 OS needs an overhaul. The day I receive at least 95% of my calls and SMS messages, can use call waiting, and get less then 1 freeze up/reset a week, I will be happy with it.
    Mine already does this and freezes once every 2 weeks at most. But I don't have 101+ 3rd party apps. It does what I need it for
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    I agree... the 650 OS needs an overhaul. The day I receive at least 95% of my calls and SMS messages, can use call waiting, and get less then 1 freeze up/reset a week, I will be happy with it.

    As it is, I agree that the 650 is a public beta. Just because it sells well doesn't change that fact.
    Did you try the last update? I was in you position till when the last release fixed (cross finger) the most of known issue, including FREEZE.
    Ciao.
    Vittore
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HS Treo 180 -> HS Treo 270 -> Palm Treo 650 GSM (1.71-1.20ENA Custom) + Treo BT Headset + TomTom 5.201 & Holux GPS 236 BT Slim
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    I agree... the 650 OS needs an overhaul. The day I receive at least 95% of my calls and SMS messages, can use call waiting, and get less then 1 freeze up/reset a week, I will be happy with it.

    As it is, I agree that the 650 is a public beta. Just because it sells well doesn't change that fact.
    sam-i-am,

    Sound like you need a Treo 600.
    iPhone 4S
    Former Treo & Storm Owner
    Cigar Lover
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by sam-i-am
    I agree... the 650 OS needs an overhaul. The day I receive at least 95% of my calls and SMS messages, can use call waiting, and get less then 1 freeze up/reset a week, I will be happy with it.

    As it is, I agree that the 650 is a public beta. Just because it sells well doesn't change that fact.
    Just an observation - This whole "old OS" conversation (needs to update, multitasking, msft, etc.) reminds me of the discussions about Apple/Mac OS around the mid 90s.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraOrdinaryJo
    This made me laugh. Did you even read what you wrote??? Palm is a HARDWARE MANUFACTURER. They can, and apparently will use whichever OS meets their needs. Period. They are in the business to make money. Like it or not WM makes money, especially in the corporate world. Save the 650? Is it sick? Sales of the 650 have been pretty darn good for Palm, despite your perceived inadequacies. Is it a perfect device? Of course not. Show me one that is. Maybe you're right about NVFS. I look at it differently, however. It is new technology. Problems should be expected. It will improve over time. Early adopters pay a price to have "the latest and greatest". I, for one, will remember my 650 as a cutting edge device that, though not perfect, was FAR better than anything else available during it's limited lifetime.

    Perspective is a wonderful thing....just like opinions, everyone has their own.

    Hey Dutch, tell Ed I said hello.

    Yes Palm is hardware manufacturer and until lately was the primary manufacturer of PALM OS handhelds....
    So fine they now have 3 segments..PDAs, palm smartphones and a WM smartphone(s)...
    is the Palm OS delegated down to the pdas only? i doubt it..they will probably release their own WM pda this year.
    The real question is does the palm os even have what it takes to run a current smartphone?

    Or is this just all from palm trying to wean us & developers to the cobalt platform? If so this torment over nfvs is intentional. Instead of biting the bullet they are piecemealing parts of cobalt on to garnet. Dragging users and developers through a transistional phase of unstable memory management.
  17. #17  
    It's incredible to me how personal some people are taking Palm's decision to use WM. They are a business. Since when do big businesses care about people? All they care about is money.

    Is Palm (the HARDWARE manufacturer) responsible for the PalmOS not having the capabilities you have deemed are absolutely required to run a current smartphone? I would think they are somewhat restricted by what they have to work with from PamlSource (Access). So....did Palm really "let us all down" or did PalmSource drop the ball?

    Is the PalmOS capable of running on a current smartphone? Well....it does, doesn't it?

    If you ask me, all these questions depend on your requirements. For example, many folks here cry about limited multimedia functionality. Is that REALLY a requirement of a smartphone? Sure, it makes for a cool device, but is it a requirement? For a corporate customer (a BIG target market for Palm)?

    Again, the answer is still perspective. I think the 650 is an incredible device. I consider it a "current smartphone" whether you do or not. Is either of us wrong? Maybe. Maybe not. From my perspective, it meets my current needs better than any alternative devices available today. And though the 700w is not for me, I'm sure many corporate folks are drooling over it as we speak. For many users, both devices are more than good enough.

    Ok, i'm think i'm done rambling for now...
    "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
    - Albert Einstein
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by TurboTiger
    sam-i-am,

    Sound like you need a Treo 600.
    Crappy resolution and no bluetooth but she's stable!
  19.    #19  
    you are absolutely right Palm did what they needed to do to stay profitable.

    Only issue I have is cobalt ready?(according to PalmSource it is)

    Leaving it Palm's choice not to use it, sell, or otherwise promote it.

    I would have no issues with garnet except that garnet and nvfs together is a mistake. My 650 ran fairly well, only crashing with mapopolis..to me that was perfect. Blamed it on mapopolis(even though i think it was just the 650s memory management breaking it but liveable)

    now with the new 1.20 gsm software it crashs 2-4 times a day....1-2 times while in blazer and 1-2 times a day in my pocket. They made some items worse with their tweaks on garnet to fix memory management.

    even if it is hated I am glad that versamail was finally fixed(deleting messages, marking msgs as read on the server etc...) it took to RELEASE version 3.1E just to get msgs to delete on the POP server!
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Crappy resolution and no bluetooth but she's stable!
    I hear ya hoovs-I'd love to have bluetooth. Waiting on the 700p
    iPhone 4S
    Former Treo & Storm Owner
    Cigar Lover
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