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  1.    #1  
    I understand the difference between the two. Hard reset deletes the files on the internal "drive" by clearing it's "FAT", while zero-out actually overwrites all data with zeros.

    But, for someone trying to re-configure the Treo and re-install all applications from scratch, is there any fuctional difference between the two? What will zer-out reset accomplish beyong a hard-reset that can make a difference to the process of a clean install of the Treo software?
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  2. #2  
    I dont know, sorry,, anyone else?
  3. #3  
    as far as i know hard reset clears everything out and zero out reset makes sure everything is cleaned out by overwriting everything with zeros
    Wisdom sheds light on the knowledge you have accumulated

    Palm Pre (Sprint)
  4.    #4  
    So, pretty much the same thing for someone doing a clean re-install...

    If I were selling the Treo, I'd do the zero-out to prevent any hacker from re-surrecting the data from the internal NVFS drive. But for my upcoming hardreset+reflash+re-install, I'll skip the zero-out process.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  5. #5  
    I had an odd bug going on with Xiino months ago and just to be extra sure I was doing the cleanest house cleaning possible before a clean minimal reinstall I did a zero out reset.

    It may have been more than needed but I can't think of any reson why it would be a bad idea.

    Anyone know?
  6. #6  
    Doesn't hurt anything, just takes a while.

    Tom
  7. #7  
    I have had serveral problems with my Treo which were not sorted with a hard reset. I did a zero out and all my problems disapeared! Mainly Tom Tom v5 issues. I've now had my phone back from repair for over a week and no resets.
    Unlocked GSM Treo 650, Holux GPSlim236 GPS BT receiver & Tom Tom v5.201
  8. #8  
    It's possible that the zero-out reset will cure possible "disk" problems (e.g, restoring the FAT tables to factory condition).

    Seems like it can't hurt, aside from the additional time--and additional write-cycles to the flash memory.

    --
    Mike
  9. #9  
    Well its sounding like if your going to do some debugging or just want a clean start a zero out reset is the way to go.
  10. #10  
    The difference is mainly for security reasons. A zero-out is much like wiping your HD with 1's and 0's to make sure hackers can't undelete your private data from nand. For personal usage though, a hard rest and zero out are basically the same though...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  11. #11  
    with some apps such as volumecare a hard reset doesnt clear the treo ( if you use a trial of the app, let it expire then hard reset and reinstall the app the trial period has still expired, not sure if zero out will work) so i guess somethings stay with a hard reset
    Wisdom sheds light on the knowledge you have accumulated

    Palm Pre (Sprint)
  12.    #12  
    I'll have to try that to see how that works. Most registration is stored in Saved Preferences.prc

    Did you re-hotsync after hard reset? That would restore the preferences file (and the registration info).
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  13. #13  
    i just checked back at a email i got and i not only didnt re sync, i tried a zero out reset and volumecares pref were still around some how. (i have purchased VC, just using as an example) so if zero out sets everything to zeros how does VC still know the trial is up
    Wisdom sheds light on the knowledge you have accumulated

    Palm Pre (Sprint)
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Franko515
    i just checked back at a email i got and i not only didnt re sync, i tried a zero out reset and volumecares pref were still around some how. (i have purchased VC, just using as an example) so if zero out sets everything to zeros how does VC still know the trial is up
    Was the phone on when this happened? (Thinking that perhaps there was a phone-home process going on.)

    And how did you get VC back onto the Treo? The only way I can think of to make it a pure test would be to perform the zero-out reset and not Hotsync at all. Then, add the VC PRC to a clean SD card (inside a newly-created \PALM\Launcher folder). Insert the SD card and then copy VC to RAM. Remove the SD card (don't install any other app). What happens now with phone off? With phone on?

    If it happens when the phone is on, the app seems to be using a phone-home trick to verify authenticity (I highly doubt this is the case).

    If it happens with the phone off, then VC is writing something that isn't touched via a zero-out reset. I would assume the only area this could be is the space reserved for the zipped ROM image. I sure hope it isn't playing around in there (though I doubt that too).


    BTW: While it does appear a zero-out reset is for security purposes, Palm's KB article does state that the "device's internal memory is being reformatted." It might be possible that this solves issues that a hard-reset does not. The KB article also indicates that date and time are retained after a hard-reset--it does not say that about a zero-out reset (and I can't remember if it does because I use system time). Also, it seems odd that if a zero-out reset is so similar to a hard-reset (with better security) that Palm made the zero-out reset process require three hands. My guess is that there is a risk of something going wrong during the zero-out process that Palm would like to minimize.


    --
    Mike
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    Also, it seems odd that if a zero-out reset is so similar to a hard-reset (with better security) that Palm made the zero-out reset process require three hands. My guess is that there is a risk of something going wrong during the zero-out process that Palm would like to minimize.
    I don't get that either.. why is hard reset so much easier to do when compared to the zero-out reset.. when both result in similar data loss to the end-user?

    Is there any utility to "undelete" from the internal NVFS drive after a hard reset? I don't think so. So, a hard reset is equally irreverible as a zero-out rest to an end-user.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman!
    Was the phone on when this happened? (Thinking that perhaps there was a phone-home process going on.)

    And how did you get VC back onto the Treo? The only way I can think of to make it a pure test would be to perform the zero-out reset and not Hotsync at all. Then, add the VC PRC to a clean SD card (inside a newly-created \PALM\Launcher folder). Insert the SD card and then copy VC to RAM. Remove the SD card (don't install any other app). What happens now with phone off? With phone on?

    If it happens when the phone is on, the app seems to be using a phone-home trick to verify authenticity (I highly doubt this is the case).

    If it happens with the phone off, then VC is writing something that isn't touched via a zero-out reset. I would assume the only area this could be is the space reserved for the zipped ROM image. I sure hope it isn't playing around in there (though I doubt that too).


    BTW: While it does appear a zero-out reset is for security purposes, Palm's KB article does state that the "device's internal memory is being reformatted." It might be possible that this solves issues that a hard-reset does not. The KB article also indicates that date and time are retained after a hard-reset--it does not say that about a zero-out reset (and I can't remember if it does because I use system time). Also, it seems odd that if a zero-out reset is so similar to a hard-reset (with better security) that Palm made the zero-out reset process require three hands. My guess is that there is a risk of something going wrong during the zero-out process that Palm would like to minimize.


    --
    Mike
    I installed VC on a clean zeroed out treo (via IR) the trial was still over. something is left behid tha not even a zero out reset can get rid of
    Wisdom sheds light on the knowledge you have accumulated

    Palm Pre (Sprint)
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Franko515
    I installed VC on a clean zeroed out treo (via IR) the trial was still over. something is left behid tha not even a zero out reset can get rid of
    If that is true, it is--to me--very disturbing. I do not want any app to do something to my device permanantly, unless I want it to. Worse, Palm states this:
    A zero out reset will regress a device that has non-volatile memory to its factory-fresh state. When done correctly, it completely rewrites your device's internal memory with zeros and ones, ensuring that any data is expunged. It should be used only if you want all information completely obliterated (example: you're selling your handheld, or you're sending it in for repair, and want to protect your privacy).

    If your tests are correct, you cannot return your Treo to its "factory-fresh state." What if you did sell your Treo and the next owner wants to trial VC? Will they not be able to? Something doesn't add-up here.

    Perhaps something should be posted in the VC thread about this...

    P.S. - I also find it amusing that they call it a "zero out" reset then go on to explain that they will write "zeros and ones." Wouldn't that make it a "zero and one" reset?


    --
    Mike
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Franko515
    with some apps such as volumecare a hard reset doesnt clear the treo ( if you use a trial of the app, let it expire then hard reset and reinstall the app the trial period has still expired, not sure if zero out will work) so i guess somethings stay with a hard reset
    This is in your preferences (saved, I think).
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by shneor
    This is in your preferences (saved, I think).
    Saved preferences do not survive a hard-reset (unless you bring them back).

    Further, he stated this behavior occurred after a zero-out reset too (obviously without Hotsyncing first--at least I hope not, else the test was moot).

    --
    Mike

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