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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    I'll have a full article on my reflections this week. I've been holding back on submitting it due to the rather broad NDA. I was vainly hoping that Palm would "forget" what they bestowed. Now that I have to send back the Foleo, I have nothing to lose.

    My thumbnail impressions:
    1. Got lots of love from bystanders (the size was the main draw)
    2. Loved not having to carry the charger. I always left it at home
    3. DUN hack works fabulously
    4. Web apps were spotty. Google D&S didn't work. Google Reader did
    5. Not having a PIM was as frustrating as I expected
    6. Being able to touch type email on an instant-on basis really is "all that"
    7. Lack of document synchronization is unacceptable, IMO
    8. Would still rather access email directly on Foleo than only syncing to Treo
    9. Lack of Outline View kept WTG from being my primary writing tool
    10. Easy to carry anywhere, like a Day Runner. I kept it in a neoprene sleeve
    11. I'm offering to buy it at retail from Palm

    Not to worry. I'll elaborate soon . . .
    I will eagerly be awaiting your review my friend and so is the rest of the Foleo-loving world All you good points are really enough for me to buy this thing even at a hefty $600.

    btw, Alan G immediately quoted your post on foleofanatics i wonder when he will be posting in this thread of mine... Other than me i feel he is the one who is really "Feeling the Void" more...
  2. ~Q~
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post
    I will eagerly be awaiting your review my friend and so is the rest of the Foleo-loving world All you good points are really enough for me to buy this thing even at a hefty $600.

    btw, Alan G immediately quoted your post on foleofanatics i wonder when he will be posting in this thread of mine... Other than me i feel he is the one who is really "Feeling the Void" more...
    I'm right there with you Bulls. I really wanted a Foleo and would have bought it in a heartbeat had it been released. I still would, even with it's shortcomings. Gameboy's comments confirm what I already suspected about the device.

    I am very disappointed with Palm. They wasted so much on this project only to scrap it. It is such a shame that all of the resources they poured into the Foleo is for nothing. Given where this product ended up, I wish they would have not even started it, but instead put this energy into revitalizing their Smartphone line-up. As things sit now, we don't have the Foleo and Palm's smartphones are very quickly falling behind in the market.
    Last edited by ~Q~; 09/16/2007 at 02:32 PM.
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  3. #23  
    I have to agree. Why would you violate the NDA you agreed to? I've signed many NDAs and I've wanted to talk about the products but didn't simply because I made a genuine committment. Sharing information is very valuable. I am always looking to share knowledge, to gain greater insight into the topics that interest me and others around me. But maintaining a committment is even more valuable.

    Their side was honored in providing you with a device free of charge. Your committment is to give honest feedback and/or perform potential development work on it and to not talk publicly about it. In fact, every NDA I've ever agree to required that I not even acknowledge the NDA publicly. Honestly, the easiest thing in the world to do is nothing at all.

    It's not about whether or not the product was cancelled. It's not about the pros or the cons of the effort. It's about honoring a committment, however large or small that might be. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I hope you reconsider.
  4. #24  
    One thing about forums that is frustrating is the repeated 'this is going to happen, that is going to happen' commentaries. I long for the days when ignorance was bliss. A product came out, you heard about it on TV/Magazines/a friend, and then you went to a store, checked it out, and decided to purchase or not.
    I went to one of the preview parties for the Foleo and was impressed. It was perfect for me. I was pumped, ready to drop my $599 and leave the heavy laptop at home. When they cancelled the release, I felt just like I did the Christmas I was SURE I was getting the Barbie Dream House with the car. Instead, I got a Midge doll. At least then....I got SOMETHING. I will still take a Foleo, as is, as long as it functioned just like the preview model.
    I admire Palm for the effort and sincerely hope they will release something similar in the future.
    My Treo: I think I'll keep her. All dressed up for prom and her date Foleo stood her up
  5. ~Q~
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNYC View Post
    I hope you reconsider.
    I hope he doesn't. There are many out here who'd like to know what could have been and what the future might hold. The unit has been nixed. What harm can come of a few users giving opinions of their time with the Foleo? Palm has already publically announced many technical details about this device. What we are really wanting to know is a users opinion of the device. How is this any different from a user going to a sneakpeak and writing a review.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    I hope he doesn't. There are many out here who'd like to know what could have been and what the future might hold. The unit has been nixed. What harm can come of a few users giving opinions of their time with the Foleo? Palm has already publically announced many technical details about this device. What we are really wanting to know is a users opinion of the device. How is this any different from a user going to a sneakpeak and writing a review.

    That's just wrong, Greg. If Gameboy70 had any ethics at all he would not have come here teasing others with the fact that he received a Foleo. He should have just kept that info to himself. Posting this here tells us that he is untrustworthy and that Palm made a big mistake giving him a Foleo. Next time Palm will need to screen the beta testers/developers that receive confidential hardware better.

    Being excited about having access to something others don't is no excuse to go back on your word. And encouraging him to break his promise seems like a pretty sleazy thing to do.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    How is this any different from a user going to a sneakpeak and writing a review.
    He signed an NDA and shouldn't even be discussing the Foleo in public - whether he has positive or negative things to say about it. He's showing he has ZERO respect for Palm's wishes. Very classy.

    Did people who went to the Sneak Peeks have to sign an NDA? No they did not. I can't believe this is even being discussed. This is not a debatable issue: you sign the NDA, you keep your big mouth shut. Period.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Oregon View Post
    He signed an NDA and shouldn't even be discussing the Foleo in public.
    Those aren't the terms of the NDA. It bars me from discussing proprietary information related to the Foleo, like architectural details, not from discussing it at all (which is why Ben could selectively discuss things here). After the Foleo cancellation I redacted a number of observations from the original review because they related to technical details not made public. The review was intended to be published on the Foleo's release, when there would be no information in the article that wasn't accessible (e.g. SDK materials). The current draft resembles the list of impressions I posted. As you can see from the list, there's no factual information that wasn't already available.

    That said, since the NDA can't be posted, I have no way of proving what I am and am not at liberty to say, so perception is reality. It would be easy for anyone to make arbitrary accusations without the documentation to support them, while ostensibly crusading for honor. On the receiving end, that's a no-win situation. I've emailed my editor that I'm dumping the article.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNYC View Post
    Why would you violate the NDA you agreed to?
    Yes, I've stopped beating my wife.
  10.    #30  
    Ok. So everyone said their piece about the NDA, Gameboy70 said his rebuttal, and agreed to dump the article. Hope everyone respects the other's opinion and just go back to the topic

    I think this just brings out the passion by which all of us Foleo lovers really wanted this device, and and really want to know how it worked or did not work so we can all work together to bring the Foleo to its full potential. It still brings the point that the cancellation of the Foleo really left an empty space in the mobile computing world, a space which i hope Palm has the Exclusive Right to fill in the future. I hope Steve Jobs does not try to grab the spotlight by picking up the concept. I hope its well patented. Jeff Hawkins deserves the first crack at this category of mobile devices, and Palm deserves get the credit of creating such a product.

    Foleo II - please come soon enough...
  11. vrf
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Oregon View Post
    And encouraging him to break his promise seems like a pretty sleazy thing to do.
    Wow.. poisoning the well a bit, are we?

    He never promised to not talk about the Foleo at all. The NDA strictly forbids some things, but doesn't forbid everthing. What, to you, is so difficult about that distinction?
  12. ~Q~
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    I've emailed my editor that I'm dumping the article.
    It is a shame to lose, what I am sure, was a very well written document. I was looking forward to reading it Gameboy, but completely respect your decision.

    Thank you for the insights that you posted and for your previous work. I'm sure I'm not the only one that gained from it.
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  13. ~Q~
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post
    Foleo II - please come soon enough...
    Bulls, we'll get our Foleo II and it won't be from Mr. Jobs.
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    That said, since the NDA can't be posted, I have no way of proving what I am and am not at liberty to say, so perception is reality. It would be easy for anyone to make arbitrary accusations without the documentation to support them, while ostensibly crusading for honor. On the receiving end, that's a no-win situation. I've emailed my editor that I'm dumping the article.
    Full disclosure - the "editor" is me and I have not and never will ask anybody to ever break an NDA. I haven't seen Gameboy70's NDA and can't speak to what it was, but I'll admit I was hoping that Palm would let him out of it in some way, since I know there's still a lot of interest in hearing what "woulda been" with the Foleo. We'll continue to work on it, but I agree with Gameboy70's decision to not try to publish the article without a clearer picture of what is and is not within the bounds of the NDA.
  15. #35  
    Being accused of legal transgressions isn't something I take lightly, so let me answer a couple of specific points.

    SteveNYC, you state that the many NDAs you're been through nearly always contain clauses against mentioning the NDA itself. That's contrary to my experience. This is the first NDA I've signed since 1999, but in that year, I went through 7 NDAs, and only two of them had such a clause. In both cases, they covered unannounced products. It certainly wasn't the case here, though I have no doubt that the Foleo NDAs prior to July were Pentagon-level gag orders.

    Your criticisms are no doubt sincere, but presumptuous. If I had to bet money that an Apple employee with an iPhone in March wasn't allowed discuss the existence of whatever NDA was binding, I'd place that bet, but I would never implicitly or explicitly accuse the employee of violating terms that I hadn't myself read.

    As far as my commitment to the agreement, my reading of the NDA and PPRA -- and I could be wrong about this -- is that the terms were binding until either the recall notice was issued or until the device is out of my possession (I'm not sure which is the case, due to equivocal wording). The agreement is broad, but not open-ended. And it's very specific about the types of information not up for discussion.

    The accusations I've read here seem to reference boilerplate NDAs rather than the specific terms that I signed. I'm not sure what agreement Palm employees at the Sneak Previews signed, but mine seemed to be consistent with it. If you asked them about the battery life, they could tell you. If you asked them if the GUI layer ran over X, they couldn't. My revised, post-cancellation article was designed along similar constraints: it was basically an extended Sneak Preview with use cases from the street. I made a point of not discussing any architectural issues, including ones that had since been made public, like DirectFB.

    Hopefully, this closes the issue and lets the thread get back on track.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Q~ View Post
    Bulls, we'll get our Foleo II and it won't be from Mr. Jobs.
    I hope you're right. He does seem to have the tendency to suck all our money up coming up with all these really outstanding devices...

    If the iPhone ran my Medical apps, i would have bought it... But I am happy i went for a 755p... the power of 3rd party apps is really underappreciated.
  17. #37  
    First you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    I'll have a full article on my reflections this week. I've been holding back on submitting it due to the rather broad NDA. I was vainly hoping that Palm would "forget" what they bestowed. Now that I have to send back the Foleo, I have nothing to lose.
    "Now that I have to send back the Foleo, I have nothing to lose."

    "Now that I have to send back the Foleo, I have nothing to lose."

    "Now that I have to send back the Foleo, I have nothing to lose."

    Pathetic.



    Then you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Those aren't the terms of the NDA. It bars me from discussing proprietary information related to the Foleo, like architectural details, not from discussing it at all (which is why Ben could selectively discuss things here). After the Foleo cancellation I redacted a number of observations from the original review because they related to technical details not made public. The review was intended to be published on the Foleo's release, when there would be no information in the article that wasn't accessible (e.g. SDK materials). The current draft resembles the list of impressions I posted. As you can see from the list, there's no factual information that wasn't already available.

    That said, since the NDA can't be posted, I have no way of proving what I am and am not at liberty to say, so perception is reality. It would be easy for anyone to make arbitrary accusations without the documentation to support them, while ostensibly crusading for honor. On the receiving end, that's a no-win situation. I've emailed my editor that I'm dumping the article.
    I hope someone from Palm is told about what you were planning to do. You don't appear to be very trustworthy and based on this incident you should not be given future beta test hardware. While your enthusiasm is admirable, your lack of respect for Palm is not.
  18. ~Q~
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Hopefully, this closes the issue and lets the thread get back on track.
    Indeed. Please seek clarification of your NDA so that hopefully you can provide your review to TC. This would help with the void.
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    #39  
    Back to the original post, I've gone out and purchased a used 12" Powerbook.
    The reason I was excited about the Foleo was that I was after a small lightweight device to take when travelling (instead of my 3-5kg IBM Think"Brick") where I could access the web via wifi or via the phone, and view work e-mail attachments.
    Powerbook is small, light, and has all the software I need to access our service via Citirx and view/edit word, excel and powerpoint files. Plus it has Mac OS X over useless Windows XP.
    Only challenge now is to work out how I can share files on my home iMac with it.
    Palm IIIx > m505 > Tungsten T > T5 > Red BlackBerry Pearl 8110 (only device work IT will allow!)
  20. #40  
    Gameboy70,

    I am impressed you held back the article. I do not mean that in any sarcastic manner whatsoever. I also sent you a PM. Check it when you get a chance.

    Also, I completely agree with ~Q~'s comment. Clarification would be good.

    Miss Oregon, I think we may be taking this over the top. Personally, I wouldn't describe Gameboy70 as untrustworthy; maybe aggressive, but not untrustworthy. He did in fact withdraw his article.
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