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  1. hlazar's Avatar
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       #1  
    Unless you are an early adaptor, there should be plenty of software of all sorts for the Foleo. The platform is so open that developers should have plenty of stuff available within six months. There is a huge amount of lynex software including Word Perfect that can be easily ported over. The genius of the foleo is it's open platform.
    I truly believe that the foleo is the next step in computer evolution -- truly the computer for all of us. It has an open platform, easy to use operating system and it is easy to add memory to. The access to USB, WiFi, and bluetooth allows network connection.
    Price should drop tremendously as production volume increases, and I predict prices below a $100 within just a few years. that makes it perfect for school children (with all their text books on the device) I imagine that the student of the future will have a notebook with foleo on one side and paper with one of those transcribing devices that turn paper scratches into computer stuff directly.
    The Market for the foleo is huge, and Palm's only problem is that the device is easly copied.
    Henry L lazarus hlazar@netaxs.com
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  2. #2  
    You are delusional.

    Why would the Palm Foleo platform be the Linux platform that take over the world? Why not all the other cheaper ODM's?

    Surur
  3. hlazar's Avatar
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       #3  
    Anybody could put together a fully solid state computer running on linux, with pda type instant on. Palm took the intuitive jump and made the first one.
    Henry L lazarus hlazar@netaxs.com
    www.netaxs.com/~hlazar/
    www.netaxs.com/~hlazar/god.html
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by hlazar View Post
    Anybody could put together a fully solid state computer running on linux, with pda type instant on. Palm took the intuitive jump and made the first one.
    Yes, but why should instant on be so valuable that this becomes a revolutionary device? Cheap laptops already abound, and some features, like large displays and storage are often much more valuable. As these devices use more standard parts they can also be cheaper. Also, for the youth market, software compatibility is very important, especially when they want to run the latest Itunes or limewire.

    I hope the Foleo does well for Palm, but it will never sell in the millions.

    Surur
  5. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #5  
    I think there is definitely potential for the Foleo to really take off. It's gonna depend on a lot of things, but the potential is there. But I can't see it ever costing below $100. It is easily worth much more than that. Maybe not $499, but certainly not less than $100.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Yes, but why should instant on be so valuable
    Turn your Windows/Mac/OldPCwithLINUX on an off 10 times in a row.

    Now imagine that on and off instant.

    Thats why...
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by apinaud View Post
    Turn your Windows/Mac/OldPCwithLINUX on an off 10 times in a row.

    Now imagine that on and off instant.

    Thats why...
    The whole point of this device is to use it for things you use your laptop for. Do you turn your laptop on and of 10 times per day? I certainly dont.

    Surur
  8. emajy's Avatar
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    #8  
    For someone who initially disliked the Foleo I am starting to see a niche for it. I am traveling with and without my notebook. I am starting to say to myself, I wish I had a Foleo because it will fit some of my needs at times. Instant on is one. Wi-Fi is another ( that was promised in my Treo 180 but never delivered). So I could quickly check web sites and email.

    Now the real question will be what software will be developed. I think Palm is hoping the open source community helps make the Foleo a hit. I hope the are right. I for one will not be an initial beta tester. I have done that with too many Treos already. I will take the wait and see approach.

    A better program for PowerPoint will be a start or a port of Open Office. Yes, I know it may have to load and not be instant on but it will solve the biggest piece of the puzzle for me.
  9. #9  
    Niche yes. Mass market?

    Surur
  10. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The whole point of this device is to use it for things you use your laptop for. Do you turn your laptop on and of 10 times per day? I certainly dont.

    Surur
    I don't, because it's inconvenient, not because I don't need and/or want to. If it turned on and off instantly, then it's much more likely that I would.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The whole point of this device is to use it for things you use your laptop for. Do you turn your laptop on and of 10 times per day? I certainly dont.

    Surur
    No, because it would take forever! lol

    Seriously, between traveling on the train/subway, meetings, classes, etc. the need for an instant-on device is quite high.

    Now, we've been over the "suspend or hibernate" route and while those are faster than rebooting, they still consume battery life, take time and if you do need to shut-down, require you un-suspend and then shut-down.

    The OP is sort of right though: the funny thing about the Foleo is just that Palm was the first to do the "instant on" thing. The only thing surprising is that no one else has done it yet.

    This will be niche for awhile, just like smartphones are. Eventually, it might grow but Palm knows better than to take on MS and Apple directly in terms of OS for a laptop, hence their angling as a smartphone companion. And I bet both Apple and MS will somehow copy these features.

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  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The whole point of this device is to use it for things you use your laptop for. Do you turn your laptop on and of 10 times per day? I certainly dont.

    Surur
    I am running around the city alot. Unfortunately that means alot of hibernate unhibernate cycles.

    Unfortunately, I currently need a laptop to contain all my developer VMs. However, in the long run this may not be an issue, because I can always move the VMs to a server, and use some sort of remote view/desktop display.
    HP200LX -> Palm Pilot -> Palm III -> Sony PEG-300 -> Sony PEG-N710C -> Treo 650 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755p -> (iPhone or Treo 800L or something unexpected)??
  13. emajy's Avatar
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    #13  
    Well here is an idea. If I get time I will try it but currently I am away for ten days. I have an old notebook with Puppy Linux installed. It takes 1 minute to boot completely. Its an old Dell 600Mhz processor and 128MB RAM. Take out the hard drive ands install a CF card with Puppy Linux on it. Almost instant on and battery should last quite a bit longer. ( i won't be able to test that since the battery is dead). Lots of software to put this thread back on track.
  14. BigTex's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by emajy View Post
    Well here is an idea. If I get time I will try it but currently I am away for ten days. I have an old notebook with Puppy Linux installed. It takes 1 minute to boot completely. Its an old Dell 600Mhz processor and 128MB RAM. Take out the hard drive ands install a CF card with Puppy Linux on it. Almost instant on and battery should last quite a bit longer. ( i won't be able to test that since the battery is dead). Lots of software to put this thread back on track.
    great idea! I may try that myself. There is a "proof of concept" for puppy linux and web 2.0 apps. Now combine that with LogMeIn or other RDP client and you have a Foleo Killer (less the sync of course). I wonder if puppy linux will support a Sierra Wireless Aircard.
    Waiting for Palm Pre on AT&T then can replace my iPhone. Needs Doc To Go and Flash

    Mutley - Passed 4-18-06. A better friend one could not ask for!
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No, because it would take forever! lol

    Seriously, between traveling on the train/subway, meetings, classes, etc. the need for an instant-on device is quite high.

    Now, we've been over the "suspend or hibernate" route and while those are faster than rebooting, they still consume battery life, take time and if you do need to shut-down, require you un-suspend and then shut-down.

    The OP is sort of right though: the funny thing about the Foleo is just that Palm was the first to do the "instant on" thing. The only thing surprising is that no one else has done it yet.

    This will be niche for awhile, just like smartphones are. Eventually, it might grow but Palm knows better than to take on MS and Apple directly in terms of OS for a laptop, hence their angling as a smartphone companion. And I bet both Apple and MS will somehow copy these features.
    I just tapped my apple laptop out of sleep and it came on in two seconds. Is that too slow?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I just tapped my apple laptop out of sleep and it came on in two seconds. Is that too slow?
    Yes and it still consumes power since you need to power the RAM; and if you want to turn it off (for real), you have to still do the wake/switch off cycle. Lame. My Asus already does this. (And I think the Apple UI is too flashy and silly).

    Here's a relevant critique of the Apple system. It doesn't sound to tempting to have to wait nearly a minute to just go into a standby state.
    On my new MacBook Pro with 4 GB of RAM, it takes 49 seconds for the computer to sleep when Safe Sleep is active; with Safe Sleep turned off, it takes only 4 seconds. That's an enormous, and enormously annoying, difference.

    ..

    In essence, there's now both a performance penalty and a storage space penalty for buying the latest hardware and maxing out your RAM!

    Even so, the inconveniences of Safe Sleep would be slight if Apple offered an easy way to turn it off.
    There is no functional difference between a Mac and PC in this regard:

    Mac's and PCs "Sleep" (use low power--fast)

    Mac's "Safe Sleep"' PCs "Hibernate". (use no power--slow)

    I guess when a new Apple laptop is near $500 and gets 5 hours of battery life with Wifi on with instant app switiching, then maybe it might be relevant to use them as an example.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/20/2007 at 11:25 AM.

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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Yes and it still consumes power since you need to power the RAM; and if you want to turn it off (for real), you have to still do the wake/switch off cycle. Lame. My Asus already does this. (And I think the Apple UI is too flashy and silly).

    There is no functional difference between a Mac and PC in this regard:

    Mac's and PCs "Sleep" (use low power--fast)

    Mac's "Safe Sleep"' PCs "Hibernate". (use no power--slow)

    I guess when a new Apple laptop is near $500 and gets 5 hours of battery life with Wifi on with instant app switiching, then maybe it might be relevant to use them as an example.
    I respect your opinions, and I hope you respect my opinion too without getting lost in your zeal for the foleo. I will just say that 2 to 4 seconds is really not that slow. Also I get 40 hours of regular sleep out of a fully charged powerbook, or 4 hours of full power, so I have never had the need to make it go into deep sleep. Yes I get Wifi, and not instant ap switching but being as I can have more than one app open at one time, its a non sequitur.

    Anyway, while you can get a used 12 inch powerbook for around 6-7 hundred dollars that will run circles around the foleo processing-wise and hard drive wise, I think mac and pc laptos will continue to become smaller and less expensive in the future, hence that is why I question the wisdom of Palm in bringing this device into the market at this time.

    Anyway this is my opinion and I really do not have any stake in the outcome of whether the foleo does or does not succeed. I like Palm and while it really has not shown any innovation in a long time (acquiring the handpspring 600 and making slow incremental advances on it aside), I am hoping that it can regain the momentum of its younger days. I hope the foleo succeeds beyond my expectations.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I respect your opinions, and I hope you respect my opinion too without getting lost in your zeal for the foleo. I will just say that 2 to 4 seconds is really not that slow. Also I get 40 hours of regular sleep out of a fully charged powerbook, or 4 hours of full power, so I have never had the need to make it go into deep sleep. Yes I get Wifi, and not instant ap switching but being as I can have more than one app open at one time, its a non sequitur.

    Anyway, while you can get a used 12 inch powerbook for around 6-7 hundred dollars that will run circles around the foleo processing-wise and hard drive wise, I think mac and pc laptos will continue to become smaller and less expensive in the future, hence that is why I question the wisdom of Palm in bringing this device into the market at this time.

    Anyway this is my opinion and I really do not have any stake in the outcome of whether the foleo does or does not succeed. I like Palm and while it really has not shown any innovation in a long time (acquiring the handpspring 600 and making slow incremental advances on it aside), I am hoping that it can regain the momentum of its younger days. I hope the foleo succeeds beyond my expectations.
    I respect your opinion and I'm also certain the Foleo in its current form (whatever that is) is not for most people who do require a full Desktop OS. In that regard, Apple and PCs will be around for a long time in their current form.

    I'm not here really to convince anyone if they need the Foleo or not, or whether they should even care (b/c I don't! lol). For myself, I'm just happy I can use something to write a lot on without even thinking of battery life (without Wifi, the Foleo can probably hit upwards of 10 hrs).

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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I just tapped my apple laptop out of sleep and it came on in two seconds. Is that too slow?
    I have a brand new Dell Latitude laptop with all of the bells and whistles that I just bought for about $2k. It pops in and out of sleep mode pretty quickly, but loses power over time fairly quickly in this mode as well. I never use it. The machine takes nearly two minutes to come out of hybernate to a point where I can open apps. Mostly I put the machine in this mode when I want to shut it down.

    Regardless of how fast either of these "sleep" modes are, it isn't even close to the instant on Palm is talking about. Instant on is much more than how fast can I get the GUI up. Unless you are running a Palm OS Treo, or have used some sort of a Palm OS device, you probably have no idea what instant is like and why it is so nice. I can pick up my Treo, click one button, and instantly my email app pops on the screen. I can take a quick peak at something and click another button and it's off. This can all take place in a matter of a minute or two, or even seconds. I can repeatedly do this with very little effort.

    Let's say I'm sitting at home and say to myself "what did that email say about my meeting tomorrow??" I can get the info out my treo in seconds. I wouldn't think of firing up my laptop for such a thing, even if it does only take two minutes to come out of hybernation, but wouldn't think twice about doing this on my Treo. Another example: I'm sitting at the airport pondering a proposal for a new project and an idea pops in my head that I want to flush out, but I need google to flush it out. I grab my Treo and instantly I'm online. Firing up my laptop, waiting for it to establish a Wifi connection, and then firing up Intenet Explorer is a pain for such a small task. Before I had my Treo, I'd typically wait for a more opportune time when I felt like spending some real time on my laptop, not just a quick on and off...

    This instant on thing may seem trivial, but it definately is not if you've ever experienced it.. I love this aspect of my Treo and find myself using it all of the time, but struggling with the tiny UI. Palm has gone to great pains, I'm sure, to give the Foleo user the exact experience as a Palm OS Treo user gets. This functionality alone has me quite excited about the Foleo.

    TKOS
    Last edited by TheKingOfSting; 08/20/2007 at 03:36 PM.
  20. tirk's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingOfSting View Post
    I have a brand new Dell Latitude laptop with all of the bells and whistles that I just bought for about $2k. It pops in and out of sleep mode pretty quickly, but loses power over time fairly quickly in this mode as well. I never use it. The machine takes nearly two minutes to come out of hybernate to a point where I can open apps.
    That seems awfully long. [Checks] My Sony Vaio just took under 20 seconds to come out of hibernate mode (and about the same again to negotiate a WiFi connection...which a Foleo may have to do too, of course, depending on the task you want to perform).

    Once it's on, of course, it's a vastly more capable tool.
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
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